Easy and cheap built turnout (point)

[hayfield]

The photo images were lost ages ago when there were server issues. I have only reinstated the photos of the jigs on page 2  dated 20/8/23

 

 

 

For a time I have seen my box of used Exactoscale sprues get larger, there are instances when I need the odd spare but the pile grows, I then thought back to the late 60's when funds were very tight as the country came out of post was austerity

Many built their own track simply because they could not afford new items, then some realised they did not have to be constrained by what was available

 

Lots of us cut out teeth building copperclad turnouts and crossings, quite simply because they were cheap. We went down to the shop and bought a couple of yards of rail and Paxoline strip. Fast forward to today and you have to buy the rail in 10 yard packs, plus copperclad strip is so expensive at nearly £20 a pack which will make 3 decent size turnouts. Building a turnout whatever anybody says is reasonably simple. If you can put together an Airfix kit, you can build a turnout

 

Now I have quite a few spare sprues which will cost me nothing, I have a few odd strips of plastic timber strips. Over the years I have picked up/been given rail, its tarnished but cleans up with a track rubber. The idea of this thread is to show how easy it is to make a turnout without spending a fortune, and in the main using bits lying about in the railway room, and basic simple soldering

 

 

Here are my basic left overs, some plastic timbers and used sprues from the Exactoscale switch packs, the top sprues have up to 12 inner chair halves, the bottom sprues up to 12 outer chair halves. I will need some additional chairs, but we are talking of a minimal expenditure, not an expensive kit

 

 

First up you will need a good plan, which I have stuck to a building board and cut to length some timbers. Forget all the technical bits or the fact its EM gauge, its about 9" long and has a generous 55" radius

 

I always build turnouts on a flat building board, as its much easier sitting at a desk and being able to rotate it whilst building, I tape a plan to the board, then tape a piece of tracing paper over it and then lay 2 thin strips of double sided tape outside the stock rails

 

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by hayfield

[hayfield]

 

Here I have the old rail from an oddments box

 

Going off topic a bit, this is a 3D printed filing jig which can be downloaded from Templot. There is a lot of work going on in Templot with 3D printing and both laser printing and  milling of track beds. Don't be put off is you don't have one

 

Anyway in the old days it was using the mark 1 eyeball, a simple soldering jig can be made from either cutting a V in some stout card or gluing some wooden (or metal) strips to a board at the correct angle. The above two photos show before and after filing

 

 

One vee finished and soldered

 

Perhaps I should have shown old school

 

 

As you can see simple jigs made from wood, metal and even glassfibre (edges from a SMP copper clad timber etch) Wedges can also be made simply to hold rail in place. The limit of what you can use is your own imagination. In the 60's we used what was to hand, mail order took weeks and involved Postal Orders !!! 

 

 

This is high tech, these hardened steel filing jigs can also be used both to file the angle and to hold the rails in place for soldering, but don't let these jigs put you off. A simple file will do the job nearly as well and just use a card with a Vee cut out to act as a guide to check the angle

 

 

 

 

[roythebus1]

The problem I find with the rail filing jigs for assembling the V is that the rails in the V move and are difficult to get level unless there is something solid to stand the rails on.

[hayfield]

4 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

The problem I find with the rail filing jigs for assembling the V is that the rails in the V move and are difficult to get level unless there is something solid to stand the rails on.

 

I find the slots are slightly oversize, so if you are not careful, as you have found the tips can be out of alignment and the wrong angle

 

The latter just needs careful checking whilst tightening the screw head, it might take a couple or more goes at getting the rails in place

The former is easy to solve, my building boards are offcuts of laminate clip together flooring, the bottom is nice and flat and they don't warp. I now solder the underneath of the Vee with the top held flat on the board. Its a knack that you develop, plus offer up the vee to the plan. If its wrong re-solder it. Its all part of the fun  

[Izzy]

Like many others I’ve never used commercial filing jigs. One of the benefits of knocking out your own from card/ply whatever is that they can be made/adjusted to suit whatever type and size of rail being used, BH,FB, code 40/55/75/100 etc. This is especially helpful with FB as most jigs are just plain slotted and rail sizes do seem to vary quite a bit even when they are supposed to be the same.

 

Always interesting to read your threads, so thanks.

[ikcdab]

Excellent thread. 

If you are trying to save money, then vee jigs are not on the menu.

I use the "fold the tail in half lengthways" method. With this, you can get the exact angle you require everytime (just fit it to the templot printout) and precise fitting is guaranteed everytime. 

See my layout thread for details:

 
https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/157222-charlton-bridge-4mm-brs/&do=findComment&comment=4092073

 

Ian C

Edited November 29, 2021 by ikcdab

[hayfield]

Perhaps I should keep away from commercial jigs in this build and just show them in my work bench thread.

 

By the way I have a Canadian 1-5 jig that allows rail sizes from code 75 to 100 and both bullhead & flatbottom. it allows both Vees and switch rails to be filed, but at $50 + postage expensive

 

A recap had I cut the timbers from copperclad it would have cost £6 +. Using plastic timbers reduced this to £1.66. Rail would be the same cost which is £2

 

With the copperclad construction I would at this point cut the isolation gaps and fill them with model filler, otherwise you would be left with unsightly cuts in the timbers

 

I will do the next steps a bit later

[NFWEM57]

7 hours ago, hayfield said:

Perhaps I should keep away from commercial jigs in this build and just show them in my work bench thread.

 

By the way I have a Canadian 1-5 jig that allows rail sizes from code 75 to 100 and both bullhead & flatbottom. it allows both Vees and switch rails to be filed, but at $50 + postage expensive

 

A recap had I cut the timbers from copperclad it would have cost £6 +. Using plastic timbers reduced this to £1.66. Rail would be the same cost which is £2

 

With the copperclad construction I would at this point cut the isolation gaps and fill them with model filler, otherwise you would be left with unsightly cuts in the timbers

 

I will do the next steps a bit later

Hi, out of interest, who makes/made the Canadian jig and is it still available?

[hayfield]

They are made by Fast Tracks and now $60 usd

 

https://www.handlaidtrack.com/filing-jigs-pointform

[hayfield]

 

The first job is to preform the wing rails once the Vee has been cut together

 

 

For most folk you will need a supply of standard chairs and also slide chairs. For this small turnout you will need about 70 which as a pro rata cost will be £3 ish and about a dozen slide chairs

 

Looking at the cost Plastic timbers £1.66, rail £2, standard chairs £3 and £1 for slide chairs  = £7.66

Remembering a copperclad turnout would be costing £9.66

So both ways are not too expensive, now to prove they are not that difficult to build

 

 

Starting with the Vee, stick a piece of 20 thou plasticard on the tip, this will support the tip 

 

 

Now thread 6 chairs on to the vee, trimming the two nearest the tip then glue in place

[hayfield]

 

These are the half chairs which are left overs from previous builds, the cost to me will therefore be much lower

 

 

I will actually be using some bits I have left over from other jobs, but these will stop me from chopping up standard and slide chairs. If anyone decides to copy me and use them then you will use less standard chairs, but these are extras

 

 

This is the next stage fitting the straight stock rail

 

A quick recap, the only soldering is on the Vee, everything once cut and filed is stuck using solvent

[NFWEM57]

22 minutes ago, hayfield said:

They are made by Fast Tracks and now $60 usd

 

https://www.handlaidtrack.com/filing-jigs-pointform

Thanks, I emailed them a while ago and they told me they were for flat bottom track only, not bullhead.  So, i did not pursue.

[njee20]

Great thread, thanks. I dabble in building my own track, but always in awe of people who are good at it!

[martin_wynne]

37 minutes ago, hayfield said:

They are made by Fast Tracks and now $60 usd

 

For the cost of a couple of jigs and the postage from Canada you could get a simple FDM 3D printer. Then you can make as many jigs as you like at any angle. Templot is free to use, the filing jig files are free, you don't need any CAD skills or a CAD system to use them. Plus the printer can be used for lots of other modelling jobs, including 3D-printed track from Templot.

 

Admittedly I'm still working on all this, and the only jig so far available is for 1:5. But the project is progressing well.

 

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Creality3D-printer-magnetic-Technology-Outlet/dp/B07HRN7K61

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited November 29, 2021 by martin_wynne
cheap printer link added

[hayfield]

 

Chairs are fitted to the two wing rails, the chair on the left is a cut down check chair, but a standard one will do

 

 

Its a very simple job to glue the first wing rail in place. The second and third chairs from the left are half chairs

 

 

I have filed the switch rail to shape, cut it to length, then slid 2 chairs on to it. If you are using whole chairs slide all 6 on. I will be using 12 left over half chairs.

 

So far other than a bit of patience cutting and filing a bit of rail to shape, I have done nothing really complicated and the turnout is coming along nicely. OK I have sped up the process by using a few jigs, but when you are building something for yourself, what's the odd hour fiddling about when you are having fun.

 

 

 

 

[hayfield]

12 minutes ago, NFWEM57 said:

Thanks, I emailed them a while ago and they told me they were for flat bottom track only, not bullhead.  So, i did not pursue.

 

Well I got it second hand and bullhead tightens up very nicely in it, as for me I never had any instructions and it works fine, same as the 3D printed one. I guess its designed for flatbottom, so in true USA style (for fear of being sued) that's all they will admit to. Don't tell anyone I used it to file up the switch rail in this build !! But mentioning jigs is a bit against the "cheap" bit of the title

 

Now the EM and S4 society jigs are for code 75 bullhead and cover 4 angles (S4 do a second jig with 4 larger radii) but not flatbottom rail compatible

[hayfield]

21 minutes ago, NFWEM57 said:

Thanks, I emailed them a while ago and they told me they were for flat bottom track only, not bullhead.  So, i did not pursue.

 

17 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

For the cost of a couple of jigs and the postage from Canada you could get a simple FDM 3D printer. Then you can make as many jigs as you like at any angle. Templot is free to use, the filing jig files are free, you don't need any CAD skills or a CAD system to use them. Plus the printer can be used for lots of other modelling jobs, including 3D-printed track from Templot.

 

Admittedly I'm still working on all this, and the only jig so far available is for 1:5. But the project is progressing well.

 

cheers,

 

Martin. 

 

 

 

In the flesh

 

 

Rail filed, and amazingly the jig is in one piece.

[hayfield]

 

The next job is to part fit the curved stock rail, I have stuck the first 4 chairs from the left, as I need to flex the right hand side of the stock rail later

 

 

Whilst the solvent sets I start threading chairs on to the second wing rail 

 

 

The photo shows a chopped down check chair on the left side, a normal chair will suffice, just will not look as good. The other two chairs are normal ones

Also half chairs have been added to the curved stock rail half way down

 

 

The wing rail if bent to the correct angles with the use of gauges fits snugly in place. Once set the wing rails are rock solid. At the end of the build its a simple job to solder a bonding rail across the bottom of the common crossing

 

 

Two cosmetic half chairs are added. Again I have used a slab and bracket chair where the tip of the vee is, but if being built to a budget a standard chair is fine and the one I have used was a spare

 

 

The second switch rail has been formed and a couple of chairs added

 

A quick recap I don't think I have encountered any difficult processes and the common crossing that most folk have issues with other than soldering the Vee is just a simple bit of cutting, filing and bending of a few bits of rail

 

The second complaint is many find threading chairs difficult, simply thread enough to hold the rail in place then use half chairs

 

I still have not broken the bank by not using pre made common crossings and switch blades

[KeithHC]

Thanks for doing this John it is giving me ideas to have a go. I have a C&L EM point kit that could throw out a few spares that could find there way into a second point. I have in the past managed to put a vee together and like you use of 20thou plastic card solves the making of the Vee assembly. I am looking forward to the following instalments and can see a Christmas project coming on. Also this thread could end up being printed out for constant reference. Maybe you could look at other track assemblies as well.

 

Keith

[KeithHC]

Ps. I still want the majority of my points etc. to come from Wayne. I would however like to be able build some for fiddle yards etc.

 

Keith

[hayfield]

 

Once the curved stock rail has set the second wing rail can be fitted. Providing you have bent the rail correctly it falls easily into place

 

 

I have used some spare bits on the part used sprues for block chairs for added detail, but if you don't have these just cut up some normal chairs, once these have been fittedyou can fit the second switch rail then finish off gluing the chairs on the curved stock rail. Slide chairs can be fitted 

 

 

The check rails can be fitted, I have used cut down check chairs, perfectly acceptable to fit normal chairs then just trim then so the rails fit at the correct distance from the common crossing

 

 

Check rail gauges can be used

 

 

A close up of the crossing showing all the tails are held in place with chairs

 

 

Nearly completed with a copper clad tiebar and all chairs in place

 

Next up the bonding rails

[hayfield]

 

I did not cover the tiebar very well, simply a bit of copperclad strip. It has an isolation gap cut in to its centre, I usually fill this with modelling filler and file flat. Simply solder the switch blades to it

 

 

To ensure electrical continuity I fit bonding wire between the stock and switch rails on the rail bottoms

As I have not soldered the common crossing together the rails need a bonding wire soldered across to make it all one electrical section

 

 

A close up shot of the bonding wires, in and out quickly with a hot iron

 

A simple to build turnout, needing a few common tools to build it, with no complicated processes. You will need a few gauges, but these can be home made

 

As for costs, certainly for me using spares it was very little, using  components it costed out at about £6 or £7, even if you used the special chairs I did once you worked out the savings in plain chairs, the cost is not much more than £1 extra. Probably being more detailed than what can be bought in any of the RTR ranges

 

All I can say is have a go

[Lacathedrale]

Very timely @hayfield thank you. i was just about to PM you directly about this!

 

I'm looking at EM and seeing relatively inexpensive RTP points from the EMGS and even cheaper from British Finescale, but I'm starting to get curious as to whether P4 might be an option for me - starting as I am essentially from scratch for a pre-grouping project. I need to build 7 plain B7 turnouts.

 

One thing I find incredibly hard to navigate is what is actually required when looking at the various stores pages. I believe i've got it down here - but can you/anyone confirm?

 

The following is from the EMGS to get started:

• Exactoscale S1 chair x500 £20
• 20x 500mm B/H NS Rail - £9.50
• 100x Exactoscale Check, L1 and M1 Chairs £25.50*
• Track Gauge Set - £19
• TOTAL: £74

From the S4S to get started:

• Exactoscale S1 chair x500 £20
• 20x 500mm B/H NS Rail - £ 11.50
• 100x Exactoscale Check, L1 and M1 Chairs £25.50*
• Checkrail, Flangeway and Triangular Gauges: £21.70
• TOTAL: £78.70

Per turnout one then buys:

• Exactoscale Common Crossing Chairs - £2
• Exactoscale A/B/C Switch Chairs - £2
• Assorted length turnout timbers x62 - £5**

This is of course excluding the blade filing and crossing jigs - another £78! So really the upfront cost of £90 for the first turnout is very painful, but by the fourth turnout you're  the price per turnout is now below the cost of an RTR point.
 

* I know that strictly speaking the Check, L1 and M1 chairs are not required - but if we're going to the point of hand building track in P4 (for example) then it would be foolish not to, wouldn't it?

 

** £3 for exactoscale turnout bases, £5 for assorted length timbers, £8.50 for laser cut ply

 

Would you recommend the 0.8mm or 1.5mm sleepers or timbers, starting from scratch?

 

Does anyone produce EM or P4 flex track bases with 9' sleepers or is that going to be a fun exercise in tedium?

[hayfield]

Yes it can be very painful if you go out and buy everything, I keep my eyes open always for gauges I (I have just bought a 2mm/N gauge set off eBay for £10.50 + postage. If you have a digital gauge you can use it or make your own basic one. Peco sell a very useful gauge for 00/EM/P4 (I have 4) IL 116  £3.54

 

As for timbers, the 0.8 can be trouble as when the solvent dries one side shrinks and if the timber/sleeper is not stuck down well enough it curls (these were designed to be compatible with ply & rivet turnouts). Use the 1.6mm ones which are thick enough to resist this. Why not use 60thou plasticard if you are building on a budget ? or even Ply but you need to use Butanone or MEK nor Mekpak

 

Common crossing chairs are £2 but have 5 sets of varying sizes, but you can use standard chairs and wont really notice the difference except for the A chair (slab and bracket)  but it replaces 40 standard chairs, With chairs at 4p each it off seta most of the cost

 

Switch chairs are £2 for a pair (1 left hand & 1 Right hand), so its £1 a turnout. But the each turnout uses 4 outer and 4 inner half chairs. There are 24 outer half chairs and 16 inner half chairs

 

You left off slide chairs, unless you are building slips you will not need M1 small chairs

Check rail chairs are a different story (they are for P4 only but as you saw can be altered for EM or 00 gauge they are 85p a sprue but save using20 chairs (80p)

L1 (bridge) chairs are a nice to have and vary in number from 4 to 10 depending on size. But C&L do not sell them in their packs, they advise splicing standard chairs

 

Forget the jigs, yes they are expensive. I bet all the best track builders started off without any jigs. Just make stiff card formers

 

Exactoscale do make the best plastic timbers 62 for £5, but with 12 extra long timbers and careful use you can get 3 medium turnouts from each pack.

 

I will address the gauge issue in the next reply

 

If anyone wants a go and costs are an issue PM me, like most track builders I have limited stocks but I could help the odd person out. But for most a pack of chairs and a pack of slide chairs will not break the bank. I remember going into Puffers and buying a SMP kit for a couple of £'s its a pity these are not readily available. I did make up a copperclad kit and offered it up (at parts cost) with pre-filed crossings and switch rails, no one took up the offer.

[hayfield]

The easiest way to start a heated debate is to talk about gauges, a war nearly broke out a few years back when 00-SF was mentioned

 

Anyway as far as track is concerned it is just as easy to build in P4 as EM gauge. Where the issue arises is in laying it flat on well made base boards. The next issue is can you build stock that will run well ? Building the track is not the issue its everything around it. EM gauge flanges are so forgiving when placed alongside P4.

 

The question is can I build a layout to P4 standards that will work well ? Track building is a walk in the park and the easy step