Gresley teak after nationalization.

[Blackthorn]

I hope this isn't a completely stupid question, but how long would have Gresley coaches retained their teak livery after British Railways came into effect and repainted them.

 

I bought some sets at good price from the big box store, I can repaint them but don't have the ability to reline and number them. Even if I do it could Canada Post is so slow I would end up losing interest. I would rather improve the existing teak finish into something more accurate.

 

Thanks for any information.

 

MJ.

[Aire Head]

Not a stupid question at all.

 

This has been asked before here is a link to the previous thread 

 

Hope that helps

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/116829-gresley-teak-coaches-livery-longevity/

[Blackthorn]

Thank you Aire Head.  I had completely missed that thread in my search.

 

MJ.

[Steamport Southport]

Definitely not a daft question.

 

If you look at photos of the early 1950s there are still quite a few about. 

 

Photo here of one in 1955.

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/133-teak-coaches

 

 

Jason

[scottystitch]

There was a Scottish allocated one at least that retained the teak colouring until 1962, I think. I’ll dig out the reference tomorrow to confirm what date. 
 

Best

 

Scott. 

[Blackthorn]

1 hour ago, scottystitch said:

There was a Scottish allocated one at least that retained the teak colouring until 1962, I think. I’ll dig out the reference tomorrow to confirm what date. 
 

Best

 

Scott. 

 

[Blackthorn]

2 hours ago, scottystitch said:

There was a Scottish allocated one at least that retained the teak colouring until 1962, I think. I’ll dig out the reference tomorrow to confirm what date. 
 

Best

 

Scott. 

 

[Blackthorn]

Thank you.

 

MJ.

[scottystitch]

SC12972E Gresley SK loses its varnished teak livery at Cowlairs during overhaul.

January 1962.

 

The Unusual and the Unexpected on British Railways: A Chronology of Unlikely Events 1948-1868; Dave Peel.

 

Best

 

Scott. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by scottystitch

[KingEdwardII]

11 hours ago, Blackthorn said:

how long would have Gresley coaches retained their teak livery

Well, if you model a preserved line, you can have your full rake of Gresley Teak coaches right now!

 

http://www.lnersvrcoachfund.org.uk/teak_set.html

 

The Severn Valley Railway has a superb set of coaches.

 

Yours, Mike.

[JimC]

This and the other thread both answer the question "how long did the last odd and exceptional vehicle survive in teak" which is fair enough, but doesn't the OP need something more like "at what date were there still occasional trains comprised completely or predominantly of teak finished carriages? 

 

 

[Hal Nail]

1 hour ago, JimC said:

doesn't the OP need something more like "at what date were there still occasional trains comprised completely or predominantly of teak finished carriages? 

 

Aha but if you ask a question on RMWeb then people answer what they know, which is not necessarily what you wanted to know

 

Also there is a slightly perverse but common view that if something happened once for one second, then its absolutely fine to happen all the time, every day on your layout whereas if it didnt happen, it would be a cardinal sin, but for rule 1!

 

I've seen several similar threads about GWR colours which generally quote that the they repainted every 7 years - but apparently that was for a full strip down to wood and a new livery might be done as a quicker rub down and new coat more frequently.

 

What I don't know but would be relevant, is whether that was typical for all railways and whether British Railways adopted its own rules or carried on largely as before. 

 

I've always assumed it would take a year or two for a new livery to be the more common which is not unlike today of course.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Hal Nail

[Wickham Green too]

New insignia on the existing livery would be common within a year or two - but full repaints into new colours would take far longer : the workshops are set up to process so many vehicles per week and that isn't going to change 'cos the colour's different. 

[JimC]

5 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

New insignia on the existing livery would be common within a year or two - but full repaints into new colours would take far longer : the workshops are set up to process so many vehicles per week and that isn't going to change 'cos the colour's different. 

Unless, presumably, the board was prepared to sanction large amounts of overtime.

 

But at various times there were changes that should have been visible in dated photographs - if one can trust the dates!

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, KingEdwardII said:

Well, if you model a preserved line, you can have your full rake of Gresley Teak coaches right now!

 

http://www.lnersvrcoachfund.org.uk/teak_set.html

 

The Severn Valley Railway has a superb set of coaches.

 

Also the NYMR: https://www.nymr.co.uk/lner-coach-association-lnerca.

 

 

[Wickham Green too]

The other point to consider, of course, is that there wasn't a B.R. standard livery ready and waiting on 1st January 1948 ...... the first Southern coaches - as an example - appeared in Crimson Lake & Cream in April 1949 following a decision by the R.E. in January.

[Steamport Southport]

5 hours ago, JimC said:

This and the other thread both answer the question "how long did the last odd and exceptional vehicle survive in teak" which is fair enough, but doesn't the OP need something more like "at what date were there still occasional trains comprised completely or predominantly of teak finished carriages? 

 

 

 

I did answer the question. Early 1950s. It's in the link which is probably the most comprehensive website on LNER coaches.

 

The repainting into Blood and Custard (and Carmine for NC coaches) was gradual. Some teak coaches were still being varnished in BR days. BR was still turning out brand new Thompsons in the "Teak effect" livery until 1950 when B/C was adopted.

 

Photo in the link of a train pulled by an A5 with four coaches in B/C, Teak, simulated Teak and Carmine dated 1959. That was pretty typical of the lesser trains. Most of the prestigious trains had received brand new Thompsons and then BR Mark Ones.

 

Don't forget the ex LNER had tens of thousands of coaches. Many of the older designs would have gone to the breakers still in teak or brown.

 

 

Jason

[Railfreight1998]

Apologies if it doesn't completely answer the OP, but this photo appears to show a BG in very dirty teak (or is it plain brown?) in 1968.

 

https://railphotoprints.uk/p968868046/h28d59426

[Steamport Southport]

Looks like a Thompson "deal" BG in faded crimson or possibly maroon to me.

 

The BGs were front line stock for express passenger trains.  I would expect a nice new coat of BR blue was waiting for it.

 

 

Jason

[TravisM]

I think you’d be pretty safe to have a large number of ex LNER teak coaches around in the early to mid 50’s, and removed from traffic as BR Mk1’s we’re delivered.  I think any reference to LNER would have been quickly removed off the coach side and either left blank or a BR coaching logo applied.

[31A]

57 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Looks like a Thompson "deal" BG in faded crimson or possibly maroon to me.

 

The BGs were front line stock for express passenger trains.  I would expect a nice new coat of BR blue was waiting for it.

 

 

Jason

 

Looks like a Gresley one to me - the roof has domes ends.  But yes, maroon probably.

 

[31A]

I recently came across what I think might be a late one.  On page 90 in the book "Gresley V2s, an illustrated appreciation: 2" by Book Law, a picture of V2 60956 approaching Scarborough in May 1958.  It's a black & white photo but a tatty looking Gresley 4 compartment Brake 2nd in the sidings behind is in a single-colour livery, with no sign of any lining on it.

[jim.snowdon]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

The other point to consider, of course, is that there wasn't a B.R. standard livery ready and waiting on 1st January 1948 ...... the first Southern coaches - as an example - appeared in Crimson Lake & Cream in April 1949 following a decision by the R.E. in January.

Exactly, which is why there were examples of LNER stock turned out with E prefixes in the full LNER script.

 

3 hours ago, Railfreight1998 said:

Apologies if it doesn't completely answer the OP, but this photo appears to show a BG in very dirty teak (or is it plain brown?) in 1968.

 

https://railphotoprints.uk/p968868046/h28d59426

Or is it dirty carmine?

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, jools1959 said:

....... either left blank or a BR coaching logo applied.

The BR coaching stock roundel was far from universal on Mk1 stock and was pretty rare on anything earlier !

Edited December 1, 2021 by Wickham Green too

[TravisM]

3 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

The BR coaching stock roundel was far from universal on Mk1 stock and was pretty rare on anything earlier !

That’s why I said left blank.