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Tri-ang Conflat L


roythebus1
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They're Conflat L, 17' 6" over headstocks, carrying three L type containers (for cement). There were two types, one with short drop down sides and ends (similar to the steel Lowfits) and others without. The Tri-ang model is based on the latter. Pictures on Paul Bartlett's website.

The standard Tri-ang chassis of the time was only 16' over headstocks, so they are a little small.

Edited by BernardTPM
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13 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

I recently got one of these in good condition from the Folkestone Show. It's the Conflat with 3 square containers on it. How accurat is this model? It has the standard Triang 9'w/b chassis but I'm setting to detail it a bit. any pics of the prototype anywhere?

Are you sure about the 9ft wheelbase. I thought that all Tri-ang wagon chassis were 10ft wheelbase for generations? The chassis w/b was too long for most wagons (OK for XP rated stock, but not for the vast bulk of the fleet) and the overall length too short!

 

Mind you, I think this vehicle captures the prototype, better than many.

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  • AY Mod changed the title to Tri-ang Conflat L

As noted above by @Enterprisingwestern, Geoff Kent refers to the Triang model in the third part of his wagon trilogy (Ref).

 

He had this to say:

 

“… Triang produced what they called a Three Container Wagon.  This was actually … a Conflat L, and while the wagon itself was less than breathtaking, the containers … were in fact pretty good.  A drawing of one appears in British Railways Wagons, and close comparison with it shows that the Triang version is a tad underscale: 4ft 6in square instead of 4ft 10in.  But if you can live with this, they are well worth re-detailing.”

 

Which seems a fair summary.

 

Reference

The 4mm Wagon part Three, Conflats & Containers, Wagons for long loads & steel, Brake Vans and Finishing touches, Kent G, Wild Swan Publications (Didcot) 2004, pp 33-36 for section on Conflat L’s.

 

Regards

TMc

01/12/2021

 

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Thanks for the info. The underframe is 9' wheelbase I'm sure, but will double check the measurements. What made me wonder about it was the chain hook boxes on the side are an outstanding feature in more ways than one which made me doubt the authenticity.

 

I don't have access to the books above so I've set about fitting spare Parkside brake fittings and cutting off the originals. I've cut off the tension lock mountings as I use Kadees anyway, nd filing off the half-round blobs on the buffer beam used for the tension lock rivets. the wagon rides at the right buffer height which is a bit surprising.

 

I'm wondering it it's worth putting the body on an Airfix meat van chassis or mineral wagon chassis? It looks a nice model. 

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1 hour ago, roythebus1 said:

Thanks for the info. The underframe is 9' wheelbase I'm sure, but will double check the measurements. What made me wonder about it was the chain hook boxes on the side are an outstanding feature in more ways than one which made me doubt the authenticity.

 

I don't have access to the books above so I've set about fitting spare Parkside brake fittings and cutting off the originals. I've cut off the tension lock mountings as I use Kadees anyway, nd filing off the half-round blobs on the buffer beam used for the tension lock rivets. the wagon rides at the right buffer height which is a bit surprising.

 

I'm wondering it it's worth putting the body on an Airfix meat van chassis or mineral wagon chassis? It looks a nice model. 

I'd be tempted to try the Red Panda Lowfit kit..

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Just been tinkering with this, the Triang chassis is improved with inside brake gear, but des actully ride too high like all the Triang stuff of that era. It is indeed 7mm too short, but it should be possible to put it on a Parkside or Red Panda chassis. But as others have said, it's a good representation of what it should be.

 I may well start again with it.

Pictures to follow.

 

As an aside, I know who used to run Red Panda, he was an MRC member who suddenly went off the scene. We'd heard he was running his mother's pub up north. Many years later, someone close to me another mutual acquaintance by chance and he too had been off the scene for a few years. He was honest and without going into too much detail had been "away" for doing a post office, know what I mean? His job in there was to serve the dinners. guess who he should see in the dinner queue? Apparently he'd been involved in substance dealing and had turned Queens Evidence. Don't ask where he is now!

 

Edited by roythebus1
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The Tri-ang wagon underframes are a legacy from their 'bought-in' Trackmaster wagons. This was obviously supposed to be a RCH 1907 type (crown plates), but had an unusual wheelbase of 9' 6" instead of the almost standard 9' 0". (I have only been able to find a Cambrian wagon with this wheelbase, but there must be others?). Under the Tri-ang regime, it underwent several rehashes gaining 2mm in buffer height in the process.

The CONFLAT has not been well treated by manufacturers. Dublo's version is too long with a container stretched to fit*. Totally unnecessary as the standard Dublo underframe is 17' 6" on 10' wheelbase and would have done perfectly (and saved rather a lot in production costs). Trix managed a diecast container (bought in and undersized IIRC) in a LWB 3 plank open.

 

*IIRC Tri-ang's container, while far better than Dublo's litho on wood block efforts, was shrunk slightly to fit the short underframe.

 

Sorry for the IIRCs but I don't have any of them to check.

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Trix did two conflats in their circa 1960 plastic bodied range, a standard Conflat A with BD container* and the longer Conflat B with two Birds Eye containers, however they were both to 1:80 scale, though I'm not 100% sure if the Conflat B was correct or made to fit an existing longer underframe as I don't have one. Having said that it is more convincing than the Bachmann version using standard (shorter) insulated containers.

 

* moulded in maroon or white. Also did a Speedfreight container.

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41 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

Trix did two conflats in their circa 1960 plastic bodied range, a standard Conflat A with BD container* and the longer Conflat B with two Birds Eye containers, however they were both to 1:80 scale, though I'm not 100% sure if the Conflat B was correct or made to fit an existing longer underframe as I don't have one. Having said that it is more convincing than the Bachmann version using standard (shorter) insulated containers.

 

* moulded in maroon or white. Also did a Speedfreight container.

The first wagon has the later (very) free-running plastic chassis. The second has the earlier, cast metal, one. It's a bit short for the Conflat B, which used 12' wb underframes from either Pipe or Flat wagons.

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2 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

The Tri-ang wagon underframes are a legacy from their 'bought-in' Trackmaster wagons. This was obviously supposed to be a RCH 1907 type (crown plates), but had an unusual wheelbase of 9' 6" instead of the almost standard 9' 0".

 

But Tri-ang didn't have to continue using them. Because of the sheer number of models they made with the same chassis, I would guess that they had to remake the moulds over the years, perhaps more than once.

The change to pin point axles, instead of the hole through the axle box, is a case in point.

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The chassis I measured was one of the 1960s/early '70s plastic chassis, but the basic dimensions remained the same* to fit the bodies. The last version of the chassis was moulded in a flexible plastic and had the coupling bars integral with it, making it quite the least realistic version. I think the last new body made for this shorty chassis was probably the Prestwin in 1978.

 

* except that the buffers were higher on later versions.

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The Dublo container wagon isn’t really a container wagon.

 

It is actually a Low Sided Wagon. More like a Lowfit than a Conflat.

 

I think that the size of the wagon may have something to do with the similar die cast Cable Drum Wagon. This is almost the same, but has chocks cast into the deck, and holes for the drum securing string. (The chocks and holes varied with the later editions…less chocks, and less holes. Elastic string and plastic drums on the very last issues.)

 

The containers do vary slightly in size, the wooden blocks are not a consistent size.

2 types were made. A BR FM (For Meat), Insul-meat in White, with a BR number FM12615B and a “Crimson “ BK type container branded “Furniture”. The number of which seems to indicate an ex LMS container. BK366M.

Both containers were also sold solo boxed.

 

The Dublo Dinky flat bed lorry was made overlong to accommodate the Dublo containers. 
 

The Tri-ang Railways Container wagon, with the Tri-ang Toys BK container, is also not a proper Conflat. 
 

In fact this is the 2nd, From 1962, version Bolster Wagon.

 

The first versions of the 2nd Bolster Wagon with the cast metal chassis and open axle boxes, also used for the Cable Drum Wagons, was only made for the one year.

In order to fit the BK container, the body tooling was modified to produce a gap at either end of the cross timber bolster.

 

Therefore, you can’t fit the Tri-ang BK container to the 1962 issue Bolster Wagons.

(Guess how I found that out! ;) )

 

I have not seen any of the modified Bolster Wagon bodies on the cast chassis. The plastic chassis with pin point axle wheels being introduced in 1963, along with the R.561 Container Wagon…

 

There is a photo in the Tri-ang Railways “The First 10 Years” book, shewing a similar container on a Conflat wagon.

 

90B56B4B-5A86-4CE3-A0E0-E88204FC466D.jpeg.33278b392fc270d18a6438e460d2ad55.jpeg

 

The Tri-ang Toys BK container can be found with a few number variations.

 

Due to the number printing tool often fouling on the wagon label clip moulding, the number is frequently not wholly printed.

 

BK89001 The last 1 should be the letter B, denoting a BR built container.

 

BK8990 The printing tool was modified to remove the last part that was fouling the label clip.

 

BK890B The last number, the tool again being changed, as the number should end with a letter.

 

There were also some white containers, with a Lyon’s Maid transfer, from the first series buildings, and a version of the dark blue container with “Rice Crispies” labels instead of the Tri-ang Toys labels. Both were made for promotional competition prizes.

 

Red non-printed containers were used in some starter sets.

 

 

We have a Tri-ang Conflat L wagon that was modified by adding some plastic strips to take the Tri-ang BK container. The strips fit inside the container.

The L type containers do still fit, and in fact fit inside the BK container!

 

DA445533-BC9E-46B3-9E10-0F99897E6D86.jpeg.7a178ee95cbb799251da14eb0e909bd3.jpeg

 

 

Edited by Ruffnut Thorston
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40 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

The first wagon has the later (very) free-running plastic chassis. The second has the earlier, cast metal, one. It's a bit short for the Conflat B, which used 12' wb underframes from either Pipe or Flat wagons.

The longer Trix chassis had a wheelbase of 46mm and was 74mm over headstocks. At 1:80 scale that's 12' 1" and 19' 5" respectively, so the wheelbase is about right, but it's about a scale (at 3.8mm to 1 ft) two foot too short over headstocks.

The shorter Trix chassis had a wheelbase of 38mm and 66½mm over headstocks. At 1:80 scale that's 10' and 17' 6" respectively.

There were metal and plastic versions of the both chassis lengths. The plastic chassis are handy in having provision to screw on Triang style couplings at either end (or both) so they make useful converter wagons giving more options than the usual Tri-ang Hornby open or horsebox converters.

 

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Loads of variations on a theme here! the Trix Speedfrieght container that fitted to a conflat body was on the standard Trix chassis of the time, used by the PO wagons, 16T mineral wagons and box vans.

 

I was wondering how the latest Hornby (China) conflat with the Triang Toys container matches up to the prototype? I remember seeing them at the Triang factory sidings in Morden Road in the 1960s.

 

I found a suggested the Triang chassis does have the buffers the usual 2mm too high so maybe Ill lngthen the body and use an Airfix meat van chassis if i've got a spare one..

 

Next project is either the Kitmaster Blue Pullman if I can source a motor bogie for it or the MTK Cravens parcel van that has a Lima DMU motor bogie.

 

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The Hornby (China) Tri-ang Container Wagon has yet to actually be released.

 

Currently slated as Winter 2022, hopefully January time…

 

I have one on pre-release order. It’s almost a year since the order was placed….:mellow:

 

The Conflat is illustrated as the Ex Airfix/ Mainline/ Dapol wagon.

 

The container is numbered as a BR built BD type container.
BD 7338 B.

 

This is incorrect, as the BD containers have side doors, as well as doors in one end.

 

338D10EF-4788-464B-A6FD-1089D6825903.jpeg.ebc72ff5aec35522bd2cfc2d81cdef86.jpeg

The original R.561 model…

D98CA300-68A9-455D-9FD0-5C81B89F367F.jpeg.5cb7fb229be565f71dd96fd37abd4dc5.jpeg

 

The old Merit plastic BD container, possibly too small, likely to HO size, has side doors, but also doors in both ends.

I doubt that any were built like that, as it would probably weaken the container significantly.

 

8B5F5416-4EFA-4B03-973E-F93A5ED9547D.jpeg.2f95062e1c4a562f9fb03ff1fedc0edc.jpeg

 

9C771A86-A100-4267-894D-A308CF0DD334.jpeg.ec35488a739bb26f02cb6464d66048ea.jpeg
 

Peco Wonderful Wagon kits had a Conflat wagon. A series of card cut out and embossed kits of various livery containers was also made.

 

C03CBED2-8F22-4FA9-8B38-F29B90FB14F0.jpeg.cbd6e7e8dfea82e96690eaeb92fa8615.jpeg

 

23857E12-5D7F-4DA6-A0D3-9592020007E2.jpeg.9b8d4642f7ac99c90f3508884bf093a4.jpeg

 

Peco are now marketing the Parkside plastic kits of Conflat wagons and containers.

 

F9788269-03F2-4C11-BF57-E814E2893BF8.jpeg.295ba17407bec25909be5d2463138204.jpeg

 

D9C77AEB-7D6B-437A-A9DA-80F980D83305.jpeg.33620cae0573a827ee913632345349f5.jpeg
 

Tri-ang R.340 Conflat L.

 

D950B7F7-A991-456A-AEF7-DD8909B55F25.jpeg.8b3fa0f0a279cd0d540189858c5084fb.jpeg


Scheduled for release about the same time as the Hornby Tri-ang Container and Conflat wagon,  is a LMS Furniture Removals version. Akin to the Hornby O Gauge version…

 

Unless Hornby are to use a different container moulding when released, the printing is off for the container, as the LMS crest is printed partly over the board provided for traders advertising labels…as is the “REMOVAL” lettering. :scratchhead:
This is probably because the actual LMS container didn’t have these boards. 
A problem when using one moulding for different containers…

 

2C6496EB-C9E4-4DBF-901D-3D4306781A6A.jpeg.e5fc3d758fa7dddb9a7598c5e7a37976.jpeg

Some container information included here…

 

http://igg.org.uk/rail/5-unit/unitload1.htm

 

8900C466-527F-4886-BD4E-823F25476D95.jpeg.88fc3469621dbad4fdd2a1fc5a6fa0af.jpeg

 

 

Edited by Ruffnut Thorston
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7 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

Next project is either the Kitmaster Blue Pullman if I can source a motor bogie for it ...........

 

My Kitmaster Midland Pullman runs (very well) with a Black Beetle as the inner bogie of each power car.

 

CJI.

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2 hours ago, Ruffnut Thorston said:

The Hornby (China) Tri-ang Container Wagon has yet to actually be released.

The container is numbered as a BR built BD type container.
BD 7338 B.

This is incorrect, as the BD containers have side doors, as well as doors in one end.

el…

 

The old Merit plastic BD container, possibly too small, likely to HO size, has side doors, but also doors in both ends.

I doubt that any were built like that, as it would probably weaken the container significantly.

Odd that they've used the incorrect BD code instead of BK like the original model, particularly as the container used, while not absolutely right for the prototypes, correctly doesn't have side doors.

 

 

Yes, the Merit container scales out well for H0, but doors at both ends renders it a work of fiction. I suppose it does mean you could saw one in two and, with a bit of work, make two A type containers out of it though!

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