Good ol’ Bavarian Lokalbahn

[nest]

Hello all

 

Having read David Cox’s recent series in CM I want to read more! 
I wondered if anyone could recommend any decent books on Bavarian branch lines, in English or German, as I’m struggling and am sure I’ve missed some. 
 

Thanks in advance 

 

nestor 

[bbishop]

Nestor,

 

I based my layout on the DAMPFBAHN FRÄNKISCHE SCHWEIZ and you can dig up a fair amount of information on the old webby thing.  There are books around and I borrowed some from Tony Adams to help in the construction of Höchstädt but I returned them to his family after his death.    Bill

[nest]

8 hours ago, bbishop said:

Nestor,

 

I based my layout on the DAMPFBAHN FRÄNKISCHE SCHWEIZ and you can dig up a fair amount of information on the old webby thing.  There are books around and I borrowed some from Tony Adams to help in the construction of Höchstädt but I returned them to his family after his death.    Bill

Hi Bill

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I have been doing a fair amount of research and digging online which has been very helpful. I will take a look at the specific route you have mentioned as well.

Do you happen to remember any titles of the books you read? 
 

Thanks

Nestor 

[DenysW]

If you accept RTR then Trix, Roco, Rivarossi, Fleischmann and others do some splendid lokalbahn tank engines, mostly only available secondhand via a well-known internet auction site and by scouring the internet for model numbers in other small suppliers' staches. Rolling stock appears to be the same suppliers plus Marklin, but be prepared to change AC wheels for DC, even if the box says this shouldn't be needed. I'm assuming you mean pre-1922, when the livery was green in K.Bay.Sts.B. and purple in the Pfalz.

 

If you go Marklin you go 3-rail AC for locos. Caveat Emptor.

[nest]

2 minutes ago, DenysW said:

If you accept RTR then Trix, Roco, Rivarossi, Fleischmann and others do some splendid lokalbahn tank engines, mostly only available secondhand via a well-known internet auction site and by scouring the internet for model numbers in other small suppliers' staches. Rolling stock appears to be the same suppliers plus Marklin, but be prepared to change AC wheels for DC, even if the box says this shouldn't be needed. I'm assuming you mean pre-1922, when the livery was green in K.Bay.Sts.B. and purple in the Pfalz.

 

If you go Marklin you go 3-rail AC for locos. Caveat Emptor.

Hi there

 

Im actually looking for books on the subject as I have some stock already but thank you for the pointers. I’ll be modelling around about 1950.

 

Cheers

Nestor 

[DenysW]

On my reading, mostly of Wikipedia, this is a very tricky period to model without potentially getting involved in the sort of politics that Allegheny1600 warns about. The DR stock was jumbled up with the Austrian stock after Anschluss in 1938, and then the end of the war saw rolling stock scattered all over eastern Europe. Lots of reading needed as to which classes survived to 1950, and whether they survived in Bavaria.

[nest]

1 hour ago, DenysW said:

On my reading, mostly of Wikipedia, this is a very tricky period to model without potentially getting involved in the sort of politics that Allegheny1600 warns about. The DR stock was jumbled up with the Austrian stock after Anschluss in 1938, and then the end of the war saw rolling stock scattered all over eastern Europe. Lots of reading needed as to which classes survived to 1950, and whether they survived in Bavaria.

Hi again 

 

I can recommend David Cox’s series in continental modeller as pretty good for information on surviving classes into the 1950s and beyond. 
 

I’m particularly on the look out for books on individual routes as I’ve always found these sorts of books to be particularly helpful in achieving atmosphere in my modelling. For example, the White Swan book on the Kent & East Sussex railway is particularly essential to anyone who wants to model light railways. Similar books on Bavarian subjects would be much appreciated 

 

Cheers

Nestor 

[rhnrhn]

On 04/12/2021 at 23:29, nest said:

Hello all

 

Having read David Cox’s recent series in CM I want to read more! 
I wondered if anyone could recommend any decent books on Bavarian branch lines, in English or German, as I’m struggling and am sure I’ve missed some. 
 

Thanks in advance 

 

nestor 

 

Perhaps these two books describing two routes that lie south east of Munich could be of interest?

 

Eisenbahnen im Oberland: Die Tegernsee Bahn - Stefan Wittich ISBN: 3963032901

 

Eisenbahnen im Oberland: Von Holzkirchen nach Bayrischzell - Stefan Wittich ISBN: 3963032723

 

- illustrated histories of the routes from Schaftlach to Tegernsee and Holzkirchen to Bayrischzell.

 

Regards

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by rhnrhn
spelling

[nest]

8 hours ago, rhnrhn said:

 

Perhaps these two books describing two routes that lie south east of Munich could be of interest?

 

Eisenbahnen im Oberland: Die Tegernsee Bahn - Stefan Wittich ISBN: 3963032901

 

Eisenbahnen im Oberland: Von Holzkirchen nach Bayrischzell - Stefan Wittich ISBN: 3963032723

 

- illustrated histories of the routes from Schaftlach to Tegernsee and Holzkirchen to Bayrischzell.

 

Regards

Richard

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Richard

 

thanks so much, I’ll check them out!

 

Nestor

[Bernard Lamb]

12 hours ago, DenysW said:

On my reading, mostly of Wikipedia, this is a very tricky period to model without potentially getting involved in the sort of politics that Allegheny1600 warns about. The DR stock was jumbled up with the Austrian stock after Anschluss in 1938, and then the end of the war saw rolling stock scattered all over eastern Europe. Lots of reading needed as to which classes survived to 1950, and whether they survived in Bavaria.

What is tricky about 1950?

I find the period from 1945 on a very interesting time.

The nasty stuff very quickly vanished.

The German railway system was soon rebuilt and the diverging ideas of the two main railway operators had become well established by 1950.

I knew a German who had driven a Dean Goods during the war and a Lance Corporal in the British Army who had driven trains on the Berlin S Bahn in the late 1940s. Such things just do not happen these days.

 

Apologies Nestor for going off topic. I cannot suggest any books as it is not my area. I do know some of the local lines south of Munich and they are fascinating and very scenic. A date of 1950 allows the use of some original Bavarian stock as well as more modern types so I think it would make an interesting model. To go off a true railway theme there is also the amusingly named Bahn. I have been on it.

Bernard

[bbishop]

Nestor, sorry but I can't remember the titles of Tony's books.

 

I have a couple of books about stock.  Locomotives: Die Baureihe 98 Band 2 by Steffen Lüdecke, Eisenbahn Kurier 2005 covers all the Bayern Lokalbahn locomotives.  You need only add DRG classes BR 64 and BR 86.  Carriages: Bayerische Reisezugwagen by Alto Wagner, Kiruba 2015 covers all the coaches built until 1929, to which you could add Donnerbüsche and perhaps the odd wartime import such as a Prussian suburban coach.  Probably too early for the six wheel Umbauwagen.

You probably know that the KBayStsB remained a semi-autonomous concern until 1929, continuing to build its own stock.  Bill

 

[Ian Morgan]

Some parts of the Tegernsee line have probably not changed much since the 1950's.

 

These were taken in 2002:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Ian Morgan
Images reposted

[nest]

Thank you guys

 

All very useful. The late 1940s/early 50s were deliberately chosen due to the mix of older and more modern stock. The lines at which I've looked do seem to have a particular charm to them. 

 

The photos above of the Tegernsee line are brilliant, thank you. 

 

Nestor  

[Bernard Lamb]

Nestor, 

I was just reading an article on the local branch line in Saxony that the family used and I note the similarity with your thread title. It was described as die "gute alte Eisenbahn".

I wonder how common this phrase, or similar, is in referring to old railway lines.

Is there a similar phrase in English? I have never come across a "good old railway".

Bernard

[nest]

10 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Nestor, 

I was just reading an article on the local branch line in Saxony that the family used and I note the similarity with your thread title. It was described as die "gute alte Eisenbahn".

I wonder how common this phrase, or similar, is in referring to old railway lines.

Is there a similar phrase in English? I have never come across a "good old railway".

Bernard

Hi Bernard

 

Thats an interesting coincidence, I used the phrase merely because it sounded good!

 

Nestor 

[readingtype]

6 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

 ... It was described as die "gute alte Eisenbahn".

I wonder how common this phrase, or similar, is in referring to old railway lines.

Is there a similar phrase in English? I have never come across a "good old railway".

 

I think this is down to 'cultural differences'. I don't think the British personify the idea of a railway in quite the same way. In my admittedly limited experience, 'die gute alte Eisenbahn' is pretty common when talking wistfully, and gets applied to lots of different 'Bahnen' depending on the speaker/writer's history. I enjoyed working my way through a book from the seventies, Das Eisenbahn-Jahrhundert: Die große Zeit der Dampflokomotiven [The railway century: the heyday of steam locomotives] by a well-known German railway author of the time, Karl-Ernst Maedel. The title gives an insight into what might be taken as 'die gute alte Eisenbahn' -- steam trains, basically, and everything they (however subjectively) stand for.

 

Ben

[readingtype]

@nest Speaking as an enthusiast and not in any ways an expert...

 

My feeling is, as you dig into this topic the variety within Bavaria will emerge. There are masses of books on German railways big and small and you'll probably need to make some false starts to find the right thing  in terms of operation, scenery, etc. Second hand is definitely the way to go; searching Abebooks under 'nebenbahn', 'kleinbahn' or (as it's a term used in Bavaria, but not the whole of Germany) 'lokalbahn' is good -- see what comes up. Publishers like Franckh'sche Verlag did good photo albums and Verlag Wolfgang Zeunert published a Deutsche Klein- und Privatbahnen series from the end of the 1970s which I think ended up  with another publisher. booklooker.de is good for comparing prices. Watch out for those crazily high prices you sometimes see (don't believe them) and don't forget to check everyone's favourite auction site.

 

Endbahnhöfe Vorbild und Modell by Gerhard Peter (MIBA) is a great modellers' book for track plans based on branch line prototypes and several of the stations covered are somewhere in Bavaria. It's in print, so really only available new, but since br***t completed you can't order it direct from the publishers from within the UK. Search for the ISBN 978-3-89610-734-3 -- model shops may have it.

 

Finally, Germany had a lot of private railways. On those, as far as I know, pretty much anything goes (as long as the EBO is observed) and you even in the period you are interested in you don't have to paint the steam locos black all over. As long as the wheels and frames are red :-)

 

Corrections to my babble are welcome as always by people who know more!

 

Ben

[EddieB]

Eisenbahn Journal published a series of specials in the 1990s, which included a set on the locomotives and other aspects of the Bavarian state railway.  They aren’t easy to find now, sometimes expensive, but the non-locomotive editions weren’t that popular and can sometimes be found offloaded cheaply.

 

Worth keeping a look out for, this link will show what was produced: https://www.amazon.de/s?k=Bayern-Report+%2F+Bayerische+Eisenbahngeschichte%3A+Eisenbahn+Journal&i=stripbooks&ref=nb_sb_noss

[Sarcodelic]

1 hour ago, EddieB said:

Eisenbahn Journal published a series of specials in the 1990s, which included a set on the locomotives and other aspects of the Bavarian state railway.  They aren’t easy to find now, sometimes expensive, but the non-locomotive editions weren’t that popular and can sometimes be found offloaded cheaply.

 

Worth keeping a look out for, this link will show what was produced: https://www.amazon.de/s?k=Bayern-Report+%2F+Bayerische+Eisenbahngeschichte%3A+Eisenbahn+Journal&i=stripbooks&ref=nb_sb_noss

 

It looks like some of them might still be available from the publisher:

 

https://www.vgbahn.shop/search?sSearch=bayern+report

 

There was also a CD issued about 10 years ago that collected all of the landerbahn reports together, but I can't see this here.

[EddieB]

1 hour ago, Sarcodelic said:

 

It looks like some of them might still be available from the publisher:

 

https://www.vgbahn.shop/search?sSearch=bayern+report

 

There was also a CD issued about 10 years ago that collected all of the landerbahn reports together, but I can't see this here.

Could be useful when original magazines are hard to find, but bear in mind that these are digital downloads and any CDs/DVDs bundled with the original magazines aren't included.

[nest]

19 hours ago, Jack Benson said:

Is this of interest Click here?

 

StaySafe

Yes!

 

I have read this a couple of times, very useful 

 

Nestor