The Siphon G, by Accurascale - From Milk To Mail!

[HillsideDepot]

The Passenger Train Working books for Paddington, several of which are available on Robert Carroll's BR Coaching Stock IO Group, list the individual vehicles which were allocated to the various newspaper trains. The RCTS Coaching Stock of British Railways books note those which are allocated to newspaper traffic (steam heating rather than just a through steam pipe seems to be the difference), so I cross-referenced the two publications for 1974 and came up with this table. 

 

Several of the vans take more than 24 hours to make the full round trip, hence the note "alternates with". Those serving destinations closer to Paddington work the trip daily, so I've shown them as "1 day circuit".

 

The RCTS book lists more vehicles than the Working Book calls for, but conversely there are a number of SG (as the Working Book codes them) listed in the workings which don't have a particular vehicle assigned. Three of these are on the Postal rather than News trains, so presumably are "normal" vans. As the book only details Down trains, the West of England vans are likely require to the equivalent number on the Up workings to balance things out so are, in effect, two vans each. The Bristol and Didcot vans should get back in a day, so probably account for single vehicles. 

 

On Sundays (or very late on Saturday night for the Penzance train) only the Swansea used SG on the Cheltenham portion. The rest were GUVs as noted at the foot of the table. 

 

 

I like the note on the Oxford train showing which company's staff used that vehicle. I'm guessing that on the longer runs staff weren't needed all the way so boarded en-route, and such detail wasn't relevant to staff at Paddington.

 

As ever with this type of research, it throws up as many questions as it answers. What were the other vehicles noted as "Newspaper" by RCTS used for? Where there other flows that didn't start from Paddington? And what else were the "normal" SG vans used for? Did they have their own workings, just not from Paddington?

 

Anyway, I hope the table is of interest.

Edited April 19, 2022 by HillsideDepot
Photos re-instated after Dediserve debacle

[Fat Controller]

16 minutes ago, HillsideDepot said:

The Passenger Train Working books for Paddington, several of which are available on Robert Carroll's BR Coaching Stock IO Group, list the individual vehicles which were allocated to the various newspaper trains. The RCTS Coaching Stock of British Railways books note those which are allocated to newspaper traffic (steam heating rather than just a through steam pipe seems to be the difference), so I cross-referenced the two publications for 1974 and came up with this table. 

 

Several of the vans take more than 24 hours to make the full round trip, hence the note "alternates with". Those serving destinations closer to Paddington work the trip daily, so I've shown them as "1 day circuit".

 

The RCTS book lists more vehicles than the Working Book calls for, but conversely there are a number of SG (as the Working Book codes them) listed in the workings which don't have a particular vehicle assigned. Three of these are on the Postal rather than News trains, so presumably are "normal" vans. As the book only details Down trains, the West of England vans are likely require to the equivalent number on the Up workings to balance things out so are, in effect, two vans each. The Bristol and Didcot vans should get back in a day, so probably account for single vehicles. 

 

On Sundays (or very late on Saturday night for the Penzance train) only the Swansea used SG on the Cheltenham portion. The rest were GUVs as noted at the foot of the table. 

 

I like the note on the Oxford train showing which company's staff used that vehicle. I'm guessing that on the longer runs staff weren't needed all the way so boarded en-route, and such detail wasn't relevant to staff at Paddington.

 

As ever with this type of research, it throws up as many questions as it answers. What were the other vehicles noted as "Newspaper" by RCTS used for? Where there other flows that didn't start from Paddington? And what else were the "normal" SG vans used for? Did they have their own workings, just not from Paddington?

 

Anyway, I hope the table is of interest.

I suspect the 'unallocated' vehicles served as maintenance cover. They might have also covered magazine/ weekend supplements, which wouldn't run every day. I haven't heard of any being used for newspaper traffic on other regions; any found off the Western could be on ordinary parcels work, or on Perishables traffic.

 

[Islesy]

2 hours ago, HillsideDepot said:

Anyway, I hope the table is of interest.

Absolutely!

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

I suspect the 'unallocated' vehicles served as maintenance cover. They might have also covered magazine/ weekend supplements, which wouldn't run every day. I haven't heard of any being used for newspaper traffic on other regions; any found off the Western could be on ordinary parcels work, or on Perishables traffic.

 

The News vans always stayed in News workings or were held as spares for News workings especially the ones fitted with tables which were used as packing vans.  The NPA (Newspaper Publishers Association) were very demanding customers notwithstanding their own defiiciencies in getting their product to the station on time and it was essential that the booked number of vans was always available hence spares for News vans.   Even as late as the early 1980s spare Siphon G Packing Vans were kept at Old Oak.

 

Saturday night/Sunday loadings didn't normally mean more vans than were booked for that night because the number was adjusted to take account of tne difference in loading.  The main change was that bundles were bigger for several 'papers and in some cases the 'paper that went to teh shop arrived in two different bundles when loaded to the train.  Colour supplements were normally despatched completely separately from what was printed the night before publication and the two were often only put together at the newsagent or local distributor.

[Dogmatix]

I'm a bit late to this party, but what an excellent choice for Accurascale! I have the Airfix GMR version which I have been meaning to fit close-coupling cams to; now I'll just wait for the Accurascale version instead. Although I assume that they are not the same diagram?

[Accurascale Fran]

4 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

I'm a bit late to this party, but what an excellent choice for Accurascale! I have the Airfix GMR version which I have been meaning to fit close-coupling cams to; now I'll just wait for the Accurascale version instead. Although I assume that they are not the same diagram?

 

Hi @Dogmatix,

 

Correct, they're different diagrams, with ours being the inside frame type.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran

[Joseph_Pestell]

On 17/12/2021 at 11:51, JohnR said:

 

I dont think they have rested on their Laurels, have they? They may have the tooling for the Lima Siphon G, but they've never issued it, have they?

 

It would be a good addition to the Railroad range if at the right price.

[Coach bogie]

35 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

It would be a good addition to the Railroad range if at the right price.

Speculation point.... Wait for Jan 10th. Historically, Hornby are bound to respond. Interesting to see whether they have been working for xxx years on either the ex Lima or an updated Airfix outside frame version.

 

Could be Prairies and Terriers all over again!

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Dunsignalling]

39 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

It would be a good addition to the Railroad range if at the right price.

If the tooling for it even still exists. Hornby have done both the ex-Airfix Siphons but never the Lima one in the 18 years since they acquired Lima. That suggests to me that it's disappeared.

 

John

Edited December 23, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Dogmatix]

Fran,

 

I have just watched the Hornby Magazine video linked to from your website, and what worries me is that from the segment showing a low view of a Siphon G on the turntable, the coupler pockets appear to be mounted on the bogies, i.e. there appears to be no close-coupling mechanism fitted. This is particularly noticeable in the scenes showing a train of Siphons with ridiculously large gaps between them, but that could simply be because the standard tension-lock couplers were not replace with, say, Roco close-couplers for the film. Can you please confirm the presence or absence of close-coupling kinematic mechanisms?

[Accurascale Fran]

5 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

Fran,

 

I have just watched the Hornby Magazine video linked to from your website, and what worries me is that from the segment showing a low view of a Siphon G on the turntable, the coupler pockets appear to be mounted on the bogies, i.e. there appears to be no close-coupling mechanism fitted. This is particularly noticeable in the scenes showing a train of Siphons with ridiculously large gaps between them, but that could simply be because the standard tension-lock couplers were not replace with, say, Roco close-couplers for the film. Can you please confirm the presence or absence of close-coupling kinematic mechanisms?

 

Hi @Dogmatix,

 

As explained in our original launch announcement:

 

Quote

We are also looking at options for the provision of close coupling, as the positioning of the bogies did not allow for the fitting of kinetic couplings, or to bring the NEM pocket deeper and the traditional tension locks are a little ‘leggy’ for our liking (although they will still be provided as standard fitting), so watch out for further updates on this in the New Year, along with the provision of decoration samples.

 

https://accurascale.co.uk/blogs/news/new-announcement-welcome-to-the-accurascale-siphon-g-on-00-4mm

 

The alternative is putting the bogies in the incorrect position.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Accurascale Fran

[Jub45565]

I have a D.062 to build from a kit, but just pre -ordered a D.033 & D.059 - I've felt a bit guilty in not supporting the cause for the other products to date, as I like the attention to detail and general attitude - I'll be after a class 37 when the right variants come along (RS&H as per D6772 as delivered) but can't justify a Deltic.

 

I'd certainly vote for bogies in the right place...

[5 C]

18 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Saturday night/Sunday loadings didn't normally mean more vans than were booked for that night because the number was adjusted to take account of tne difference in loading.  The main change was that bundles were bigger for several 'papers and in some cases the 'paper that went to teh shop arrived in two different bundles when loaded to the train.  Colour supplements were normally despatched completely separately from what was printed the night before publication and the two were often only put together at the newsagent or local distributor.

I had an early morning and weekend job in our local newsagent in the early 80's (82-84). The Sunday supplements always arrived during the Saturday and had to be married up to their accompanying newspaper when marking up the following morning. Even in that short period I remember the volume and weight of the Sundays increased as the mid-market titles in particular tried to increase their sales.

 

As a complete aside, our shop was supplied by a different local independent distributor ("Ken" IIRC) for the Sunday papers compared to our weekday wholesaler (Surridge Dawson).

[Dogmatix]

2 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi @Dogmatix,

 

As explained in our original launch announcement:

 

 

https://accurascale.co.uk/blogs/news/new-announcement-welcome-to-the-accurascale-siphon-g-on-00-4mm

 

The alternative is putting the bogies in the incorrect position.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

Thanks, Fran. I'll wait for the further announcements, then.

[Wickham Green too]

On 22/12/2021 at 11:01, Mike_Walker said:

 

I wouldn't want to dine in that restaurant!  

It's pretending to be a 'Tavern Car' ............... nobody wanted to dine in them either !

[Jack P]

Is there the provision for converting to EM/P4 in the same way other Accurascale products can be?

 

I really don't think i've been more excited about a Non-Southern release before!

[McC]

7 minutes ago, Jack P said:

Is there the provision for converting to EM/P4 in the same way other Accurascale products can be?

 

I really don't think i've been more excited about a Non-Southern release before!

 

Brake rigging caveats aside, there are 26mm axles fitted as standard;

[Dunsignalling]

21 hours ago, Accurascale Fran said:

 

Hi @Dogmatix,

 

As explained in our original launch announcement:

 

 

https://accurascale.co.uk/blogs/news/new-announcement-welcome-to-the-accurascale-siphon-g-on-00-4mm

 

The alternative is putting the bogies in the incorrect position.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

The bogies on the Southern Railway Van B are similarly close to the ends of the vehicle and Hornby managed to fit close-coupling linkages to that. 

 

However, it's only made possible by recessing the ends of the bogies to clear the dropper and pocket, and having a full transom on them will undoubtedly score cosmetically for those who wish to fit screw couplings.

 

John

[McC]

7 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

The bogies on the Southern Railway Van B are similarly close to the ends of the vehicle and Hornby managed to fit close-coupling linkages to that. 

 

However, it's only made possible by recessing the ends of the bogies to clear the dropper and pocket, and having a full transom on them will undoubtedly score cosmetically for those who wish to fit screw couplings.

 

John

 

As we said above, we'd love to do it but some steps simply break too much other accuracy for the sake of a tension lock. The Siphon will be provided with more scale distance magnetic 'chain' couplers which will allow them to close couple without the cosmetic compromises. 

[Dunsignalling]

12 minutes ago, McC said:

 

As we said above, we'd love to do it but some steps simply break too much other accuracy for the sake of a tension lock. The Siphon will be provided with more scale distance magnetic 'chain' couplers which will allow them to close couple without the cosmetic compromises. 

Thanks, TBH, tension-lock users will be better off with a NEM pocket in the bogie as will I as a Kadee user.

 

Tension-locks don't work at all well in any form of kinetic link and Kadees don't fare much better when coupled to similarly equipped stock.

 

John

[TrevorP1]

17 minutes ago, McC said:

 

As we said above, we'd love to do it but some steps simply break too much other accuracy for the sake of a tension lock. The Siphon will be provided with more scale distance magnetic 'chain' couplers which will allow them to close couple without the cosmetic compromises. 

Sounds interesting. Can you tell us more? Something like a Hunt coupling?

[McC]

8 minutes ago, TrevorP1 said:

Sounds interesting. Can you tell us more? Something like a Hunt coupling?

We hope to have samples to test in the coming weeks and will share details. 

[drjcontroller]

1 hour ago, McC said:

 

Brake rigging caveats aside, there are 26mm axles fitted as standard;

 

Any chance of a photo of the underside of the bogie so we can get a better idea of what's what.

 

Douglas

[Accurascale Fran]

2 minutes ago, drjcontroller said:

 

Any chance of a photo of the underside of the bogie so we can get a better idea of what's what.

 

Douglas

 

Hi Douglas,

 

We'll be very happy to show it when we return to work on January 6th.

 

Merry Christmas!

 

Fran 

 

[gwrrob]

12 minutes ago, drjcontroller said:

 

Any chance of a photo of the underside of the bogie so we can get a better idea of what's what.

 

Douglas

 

Not brilliant but the best I've got at the moment.