00-MF

[martin_wynne]

.

I have added an additional 00 pre-set to the Templot gauge list in the next program update:

 

00-MF

track gauge: 16.3mm

crossing flangeway: 1.1mm

 

This is a slightly coarsened version of 00-SF, with a bit more tolerance for poor quality control on 00 RTR back-to-backs, and older RTR models.

 

Compared to 00-SF:

 

pros:

• more tolerant of RTR variations (min back-to-back: 14.2mm)
• can go a bit tighter on radius without needing gauge-widening: 700mm/27" approx
• uses the same check gauges (15.2mm) as 00-SF and 00-BF

 

cons:

• not quite as smooth for EMGS/Gibson/Ultrascale wheels (ok for Markits/Romford and RTR wheels)
• slightly wider flangeways don't look so good

 

I have set the default adjacent centres at 47mm to allow for some possibly tighter radii.

 

 

This will no doubt cause the usual grumpiness on RMweb. I will just add that Templot is my software and I can put anything I like in it. No-one is obliged to take the slightest notice.

 

Will be in the next program update shortly.

 

Martin.

[t-b-g]

An interesting choice Martin. Are you aware of anybody already working to these standards, who may have requested that you add them to Templot?

 

Or is it something you have put together yourself to see if anybody nibbles and fancies giving it a try?

 

There is so much tolerance (or slop depending on your view) in much OO that opportunities do exist to tighten up the standards, especially on flangeway gaps.

[martin_wynne]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

An interesting choice Martin. Are you aware of anybody already working to these standards, who may have requested that you add them to Templot?

 

Hi,

 

They wouldn't need to ask, any custom standard can be set up in Templot and re-used in future. The pre-sets are just there for convenience.

 

My preference would be for 00-SF, but every time I mention it someone claims that this or that model won't run on it. Despite frequent reports from actual 00-SF builders that everything runs just fine.

 

00-MF is an option for those with a mixed collection of RTR who fear some of their models may be difficult on 00-SF, but want the narrower flangeways to improve the appearance of their track.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[dasatcopthorne]

I'm waiting for Ravenser to let us know if this is acceptable.

 

Dave.

 

[t-b-g]

2 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi,

 

They wouldn't need to ask, any custom standard can be set up in Templot and re-used in future. The pre-sets are just there for convenience.

 

My preference would be for 00-SF, but every time I mention it someone claims that this or that model won't run on it. Despite frequent reports from actual 00-SF builders that everything runs just fine.

 

00-MF is an option for those with a mixed collection of RTR who fear some of their models may be difficult on 00-SF, but want the narrower flangeways to improve the appearance of their track.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

A good "politician non answer" Martin!

 

I still don't know if you are aware of anybody using these standards (perhaps an individual had used them as a custom standard and you had spotted it and thought it worth sharing more widely) or if they are totally new and you have devised them.

 

Either way, well done for adding them and giving people a decent compromise set of standards to use.

 

They look interesting and I can see them working. It would need some special gauges making but that isn't difficult.

 

Regards

 

Tony

[martin_wynne]

25 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

I still don't know if you are aware of anybody using these standards (perhaps an individual had used them as a custom standard and you had spotted it and thought it worth sharing more widely) or if they are totally new and you have devised them.

 

 

Hi Tony,

 

Thanks.

 

I'm not aware of anyone using them to build an actual layout. But that applies equally to several of the Templot pre-sets. My being unaware of a thing does not mean it doesn't exist.

 

I do know of several modellers who like to tinker with different settings, including 00-MF, and compare test track results. If I put them all in Templot it would get too confusing. A worthwhile option is to reduce the D0GA-Intermediate standard to 16.4mm track gauge -- with 1.2mm flangeways this preserves the 15.2mm check gauge used in 00-SF, 00-MF and 00-BF for maximum interchangeability of stock. I have nominally called it 00-IF but not listed it in Templot. At 16.5mm gauge D0GA Intermediate has the same minimum back-to-back as 00-MF (14.2mm) -- reducing the gauge to 16.4mm gives a wider tolerance down to 14.1mm back-to-back. With 1.2mm flangeway it's suitable only for RTR, so it would make sense to get the widest RTR tolerance available.

 

There's seldom anything totally new, the only thing I devise is the name to use in Templot. It's vitally important that each variant has its own unique name, so that folks can refer to it without confusion. I get very irritated when I read someone say something along the lines of "I model in P4 but with a slightly wider flangeway". That's NOT P4 I scream at the computer -- to no avail.   It's just not fair to confuse beginners in that way, with incorrect info which will be indexed on Google for 100 years.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Andy Reichert]

So as compared to 00-SF,  00-MF track dimensions won't reliably support code 88 wheels?  E.g. 2 x 1.1 mm = 0.866" and taking the rounded edges of the wheels and the rail head into account.

 

Andy

[martin_wynne]

26 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

So as compared to 00-SF,  00-MF track dimensions won't reliably support code 88 wheels?  E.g. 2 x 1.1 mm = 0.866" and taking the rounded edges of the wheels and the rail head into account.

 

 

Hi Andy,

 

Is that a statement or a question?

 

The total crossing flangeway gap across in front of the vee nose for 00-MF is:

 

1.1mm flangeway + 0.25mm blunt nose + 1.1mm flangeway. Total gap = 2.45mm.

 

Code 88 wheels are 2.25mm wide, which is 0.2mm less than the gap, and being unable to be supported on fresh air, they fall in.

 

In the UK most such "kit" wheels are a fraction wider at 2.3mm, but would still fall in, in 00-MF.

 

In 00-SF the total flangeway gap is 2.25mm, and 2.3mm wheels just make it over the crossing fully supported.

 

If model rail sections had a proper top corner radius (most of it is too square) we would need to make some additional allowance for that, and then in 00-SF kit wheels would be only marginally supported. However exactly the same argument applies to EM (00-SF being a variant of EM) so if you criticise 00-SF for that reason you are also criticising EM. Whereas you have previously praised the EMGS as a proper standards authority.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Andy Reichert]

It was a question, not  a criticism.  I think you have answered it.

 

N.B. My conversion for code 88 wheel width from Imperial to Metric differs from yours in that my calculator  gives 0.088" * 25.4 = 2.35 mm which is very close to being safe for MF and truly safe for SF.  That's why  I wondered whether you consider code 88 wheels reliable or otherwise on MF. I understand code 88 spec wheels are somewhat available in the UK.

 

Andy

[martin_wynne]

28 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

It was a question, not  a criticism.  I think you have answered it.

 

N.B. My conversion for code 88 wheel width from Imperial to Metric differs from yours in that my calculator  gives 0.088" * 25.4 = 2.35 mm which is very close to being safe for MF and truly safe for SF.  That's why  I wondered whether you consider code 88 wheels reliable or otherwise on MF. I understand code 88 spec wheels are somewhat available in the UK.

 

Hi Andy,

 

0.088" is 2.235mm:

 

 

Say 2.25mm in practical terms. Which is going to be a bit bumpy on 00-MF.

 

For someone wanting to run a lot of code 88 wheels I would suggest 00-SF as the better option.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[martin_wynne]

p.s. Andy,

Most USA pointwork has a blunt nose width of only 1/2". Which scales to 0.15mm in H0 scale.

That makes the total crossing gap 2.35mm for 1.1mm flangeways, so possibly more reasonable for code 88 wheels on USA models in H0 than UK models in 00.

Martin.

[martin_wynne]

On 20/12/2021 at 18:29, martin_wynne said:

A worthwhile option is to reduce the D0GA-Intermediate standard to 16.4mm track gauge -- with 1.2mm flangeways this preserves the 15.2mm check gauge used in 00-SF, 00-MF and 00-BF for maximum interchangeability of stock. I have nominally called it 00-IF but not listed it in Templot. At 16.5mm gauge D0GA Intermediate has the same minimum back-to-back as 00-MF (14.2mm) -- reducing the gauge to 16.4mm gives a wider tolerance down to 14.1mm back-to-back. With 1.2mm flangeway it's suitable only for RTR, so it would make sense to get the widest RTR tolerance available.

 

I have changed my mind and now included 00-IF in Templot:

 

 

Will be in the next program update.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.