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Hornby 2022 Range - pre-announcement frothing - now closed


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8 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

That would be the LNWR DX Goods by a long way.   There was only 943 of them built. :prankster:

 

However all gone by 1930 so I doubt we'll see one anytime soon.

 

However if any manufacturers are looking, there was also 499 17" Coal Engines and 310 18" Cauliflowers of the same basic design lineage which did last until BR days.

 

 

 

Jason

Plus the Aspinall L&Y etc..

 

though little black 0-6-0’s always end in the bargain bin, though with 1300 preserved, and wearing pretty L&Y liveries there is chance over a range of take your pick of plain black goods locos, if the “last of” railtour celebs were done as well as 1300.

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4 minutes ago, Markwj said:

Just a thought but could we see either a retooled or warmed over class 142 as a response to the forthcoming realtrack model.

I have wondered why this hasn’t been around even in the Railroad range for a while now. I’m assuming the Realtrack one is more expensive than I’m prepared to pay for but I would happily pick up a cheaper alternative if it was available. 

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38 minutes ago, Markwj said:

Just a thought but could we see either a retooled or warmed over class 142 as a response to the forthcoming realtrack model.

 

Warmed over with a blowtorch?

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32 minutes ago, Standards_in_OO said:

I have wondered why this hasn’t been around even in the Railroad range for a while now. I’m assuming the Realtrack one is more expensive than I’m prepared to pay for but I would happily pick up a cheaper alternative if it was available. 

 

Yes, the Railroad range really ought to have a lot more in it than it currently does.

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13 hours ago, Legend said:

 

In the days when Hornby inspired (1980) we got the open cabbed pannier . There’s no point doing a mainstream Pannier ,Bachmann, Rapido got that covered. But I bet that open topped Pannier has sold well over the years , so maybe an upgrade with good cab detail would go down well . Ideal to pull GWR 6 wheelers .Were there Saddle Tank versions too ?  A metro tank might fill the space 

 

A half cab pannier is something I've been wishlisting for for ages, either a retooled 2721 or a new tooling 1854; they are very similar.  The 1980 2721 was a brave attempt, but had an incorrect generic Jinty chassis (it was incorrect for the Jinty as well, and everything else it was put under; 08. 57xx. E1, J83 or was it 86, I can never remember, J52...).  There were Saddle tank versions of both, and all were built as saddle tanks TTBOMK, at Wolverhampton; like a lot of pre-Churchwardian GW classes they had an interesting and varied history, with enough detail variations to be regarded as groups rather than classes.  But, very simplifed, they were built as saddle tanks with round topped boilers and given pannier tanks when Belpaire boilers were fitted, mostly during the early 20th century.  As boilers got swapped out at major overhauls, there were examples of pannier tank locos being refitted with round to boilers and saddle tanks...

 

A full fat fully retooled 14xx would be a guaranteed seller, but it would need complete retooling and a lot of care in the design; getting an 0-4-2 mech to work reliably has so far stumped Airfix, Hornby, and DJ/Hattons, so any new attempt will have to run really well to shake off the curse.  A Metro is another no-brainer, but if they go down the 14xx route it make more sense to bring out a 517, Fair Rosamund being the most likely.  Along with the Aberdare and perhaps a Bulldog, these are probably the lowest hanging GW fruit left on the tree, all built in decent numbers, well geographically spread, and long lived.

 

GW Collett 57' restaurant cars are a bit of a problem for RTR companies; they were all given major refurbishments by Hawksworth, some not emerging in the new form until after Nationalisation.  One might expect one to accompany H's range of very good 57' Colletts, but the refurbs included new, bigger, windows with '4 panel' sliding ventilators, so you would have to produce two body toolings in order to produce the coaches in both pre- and post-war liveries.  AFAIK none ran in any BR livery in pre-refurb form. 

 

2721/1854 apart, I am not wishlisting, Andy, honest; none of these other types appeared on the Tondu Valleys network that is the basis of my modelling, though Tondu had a Bulldog on the roster in the inter-war years for the Porthcawl 'residential', the daily through commuter train to Cardiff.

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13 hours ago, Carl LaFong said:

Ex GNR/LNER K2 is, I think, the largest class of steam loco yet to be made available R-T-R

 

Were there more of these than the LMS Fowler 'Austin 7' 7F?

 

11 hours ago, melmerby said:

 

Welsh Valley 0-6-2T

and

11 hours ago, melmerby said:

How about a decent early GWR autocar 57' or 70'?

Early GWR 0-6-0T, some classes had both saddle and panniers at the same 850/1701/1854 etc.

 

Choir.  Preaching to.  Can I put in a request for A10 or Diagram N auto trailers and an A20 (TVR gangwayed twin set), but the A26, a 70 footer, is probably more likely as it was numerically the largest type, lasted into BR crimson livery, ran on several different types of bogie and some had the ventilators plated over in BR days, a good variety of versions to keep bringing out.  OTOH auto trailers tend to be associated with branch lines, despite most working on suburban main line routes, and branch lines tend to be associated with space saving layouts, so a 70 footer might not be the best choice from 'marketing's' point of view...

 

See above comment re 1854.  I'd probably buy an 850 pannier; one was sold out of service and working in a colliery at Ogmore Vale in the 50s. 

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I would love to see the GWR County and LNER D49 get retooled to modern standards. 
 

I predict more 4 and 6 wheel coaches in new pre grouping liveries - perhaps Midland maroon, Caledonian and GCR? 
 

A retooled 8F would also be nice, along with premium HD versions as 48158, 48073, 48109 and 48094 all in late crest BR black. 
 

 

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11 hours ago, Markwj said:

Just a thought but could we see either a retooled or warmed over class 142 as a response to the forthcoming realtrack model.

There is a lot Hornby could do with multiple units.

 

They more than any other manufacturer could exploit this with a combined railroad / full fat approach.

 

If they made units without all the upsell guff from China added, but sold separately then entry level modellers could buy a unit, without sound, lights, dcc coupling mechanisms etc, and those who care, buy them as an add on to upgrade their unit.

 

This has advantages of upsell of components, with a margin thats above the factory fitted approach. Crosses the range of budgets from lower to higher and encourages modellers to do a bit of modelling.

They could also go back to the approach of selling centre cars separately.

They already have the railroad multiple unit bogie which serves ok in their other units.

 

Ultimately units needs to be more affordable, and £500 for a Bep, £450 for a class 104 is imo not the right approach, when its still possible for Hornby to tool a loco for c£200 and 3 new coaches at c£45 =£330 rrp. DC modellers are especially being disadvantaged and pushed from the market, for what is a £120 premium for a fancy coupling that serves no real purpose to those DC modellers.

DC is where traditionally Hornby has more focus.

 

 

 

Edited by adb968008
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9 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

Along with the Aberdare and perhaps a Bulldog, these are probably the lowest hanging GW fruit left on the tree, all built in decent numbers, well geographically spread, and long lived.

 

 

Arguably a Duke would be low-hanging as well, but that would be easier for Bachmann than Hornby.

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23 hours ago, Star-rider said:

Going down a slightly different furrow, I’d really like to see some clarity in whatever Hornby decide to market.

 

My sole purchase from their 2021 announcements was a new GWR Macaw bolster wagon and I have to say that I was very disappointed to find it still had a huge D coupling akin to Robin Hood’s bow. They could at least have upgraded it to carry the more modern smaller tension-lock if they were reintroducing it, or alternatively had the decency to stick it in the Railroad range so that I knew what was likely to be coming.

 

It really is difficult when a “new” Hornby product is announced to know what sort of standard you are getting and customer disappointment can only damage their brand image.

 

I was standing outside a model shop window admiring (but with no intent to purchase!) a Bachmann 2 car DMU set weighing in at around £280.00 and my wife asked me why the Hornby HST train set with track, controller etc. was “only” £130.00. I explained that it was probable that the Hornby model was from the last decade (or millennium?), that they probably had made a more up-to-date model of the HST since, but I had only a suspicion which version was in the set. The packaging gave no clue.

 

I feel that unless the buyer has good prior product knowledge or is prepared to do some research that buying a “new” Hornby item is like sticking your hand in a lucky dip. 

 

But Hornby did not mention anything about a re-tool Or an upgrade of any sort to the gwr macaw. The product picture quite clearly showed a large d coupling

 

It is quite easy to do some research on models before you buy them. It takes just a few mins

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Some new train sets my suggestions from last year would be good, an Avanti Pendolino set.

 

LNER HST set or a

 

Cross Country HST set. ( both Same contents as the current 2019-21 GWR HST set)

 

A GWR steam express set. A locomotive in B.R green early or late crest with some chocolate and cream MK1 coaches. It could be called Devon Riverea Express like the Cornish Riviera Express 1996-97 set. With any King Class locomotive  (older toolings). 

 

Also a revived 1997-98 Diesel Breakdown set with an 06 locomotive Operating Maintenance Crane,  

B.R. Engineers 45 Ton Steel Carrier and B.R. Engineers Tippler Wagon 

 

Or an older tooling InterCity 225 LNER set. 

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45 minutes ago, RyanN91 said:

Some new train sets my suggestions from last year would be good, an Avanti Pendolino set.

 

LNER HST set or a

 

Cross Country HST set. ( both Same contents as the current 2019-21 GWR HST set)

 

A GWR steam express set. A locomotive in B.R green early or late crest with some chocolate and cream MK1 coaches. It could be called Devon Riverea Express like the Cornish Riviera Express 1996-97 set. With any King Class locomotive  (older toolings). 

 

Also a revived 1997-98 Diesel Breakdown set with an 06 locomotive Operating Maintenance Crane,  

B.R. Engineers 45 Ton Steel Carrier and B.R. Engineers Tippler Wagon 

 

Or an older tooling InterCity 225 LNER set. 

 

But the problem is that we do not know if the tooling still exists for the old gwr king class Or the older ic225 sets. They could possibly get more from scrap metal from the tooling than margins from sales. 

 

And that may interfere in the sales of their current king class and forthcoming class 91 sales. Even if priced on the higher side, sets are cheaper than locos at current RRPs. So customers nay just sacrifice detail over price and go for cheaper options. 

 

Last year so many people but the cheaper railroad hst sets. And Hornby cleverly didnt sell matching coaches at the same time with the railroad hst options. Most likely a move made by Hornby to push sales of their full spec hst

Edited by Katie87006
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5 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Arguably a Duke would be low-hanging as well, but that would be easier for Bachmann than Hornby.

 

I'm not disagreeing with or challenging this, but would be interested in your thought processes as to why this would be easier for Bachmann, RJS.  My view, not that I've given it any extensive consideration, would be that Hornby might consider uptooling the ancient Dean Single, and a Duke could be produced using some of the components.  I'm guessing that you are considering the use of the City or Dukedog chassis for a potential Baccy Duke; the latter could be used for a Bulldog as well, but I think the Duke's larger driving wheels would defeat it... 

 

'Low-hanging' usually means 'attractive to the marketing dept.', and in steam terms that usually translates into locos that were either famous, long-lived, were numerous, or had a wide geographical spread (or any combination of those factors), so as to be appropriate for a large number of layouts and periods and can be produced in the largest number of liveries so as to be repeatedly claimed to be 'new' releases, and in this scenario the Bulldog scores over the Duke in at least 3 of the 4 factors I outlined.  That said, the Duke is very attractive in late Dean iivery, loco porn.

 

All speculation of course.  But a point to consider is that as the last generation of us that actually remember steam engines in service dies out, manufacturers may find themselves released from the need to produce the locos that were in service in the 60s or 50s, as anyone considering a steam age layout will not be influenced by their recollections in the same way that we are.  This might possibly be reflected in a surge in period 1 or 2 models, attractive because of colourful liveries and smaller size making them suitable for space saver layouts.

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5 hours ago, adb968008 said:

They more than any other manufacturer could exploit this with a combined railroad / full fat approach.

 

If they made units without all the upsell guff from China added, but sold separately then entry level modellers could buy a unit, without sound, lights, dcc coupling mechanisms etc, and those who care, buy them as an add on to upgrade their unit.

 

They could, but is there really that big a market for an low detailed model that can justify the tooling costs?

 

I preface this with the acknowledgement that the UK is not the US, the hobby is different, and the Hornby name influences things.

 

But the US manufacturer ScaleTrains launched about 5 years ago doing what you suggest - they offered a "basic but affordable" version (Operator) and a highly detailed version (Rivet Counter).  But in an interview on a podcast this week the basic version (Operator) is 10% of the sales vs 90% for the Rivet Counter in locos - and the basic version sales are so poor that they aren't economically viable so they are looking at either somehow changing things to make them viable or dropping them.

 

So the lesson (in the US market) is that all those people moaning about prices and demanding affordable locos doesn't translate into actual sales.  And this may also apply to the UK market - certainly all of the manufacturers making high end product think so.

 

Now obviously using existing tooling that is paid off to create lower priced items as newer stuff appears will continue to be viable, but I'm not sure this idea of either tooling a new Railroad level item or attempting to tool a combine Railroad and detailed version are financially doable.

 

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9 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

 

I'm not disagreeing with or challenging this, but would be interested in your thought processes as to why this would be easier for Bachmann, RJS.  My view, not that I've given it any extensive consideration, would be that Hornby might consider uptooling the ancient Dean Single, and a Duke could be produced using some of the components.  I'm guessing that you are considering the use of the City or Dukedog chassis for a potential Baccy Duke; the latter could be used for a Bulldog as well, but I think the Duke's larger driving wheels would defeat it... 

 

 

I was actually thinking more in terms of Bachmann re-using the Duke body on a new chassis (as the Duke had curved frames rather than straight), but yes, the Dukedog chassis could be used under a Bulldog. 

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3 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

 

I'm not disagreeing with or challenging this, but would be interested in your thought processes as to why this would be easier for Bachmann, RJS.  My view, not that I've given it any extensive consideration, would be that Hornby might consider uptooling the ancient Dean Single, and a Duke could be produced using some of the components.  I'm guessing that you are considering the use of the City or Dukedog chassis for a potential Baccy Duke; the latter could be used for a Bulldog as well, but I think the Duke's larger driving wheels would defeat it... 

 

'Low-hanging' usually means 'attractive to the marketing dept.', and in steam terms that usually translates into locos that were either famous, long-lived, were numerous, or had a wide geographical spread (or any combination of those factors), so as to be appropriate for a large number of layouts and periods and can be produced in the largest number of liveries so as to be repeatedly claimed to be 'new' releases, and in this scenario the Bulldog scores over the Duke in at least 3 of the 4 factors I outlined. 

 

All speculation of course.  But a point to consider is that as the last generation of us that actually remember steam engines in service dies out, manufacturers may find themselves released from the need to produce the locos that were in service in the 60s or 50s, as anyone considering a steam age layout will not be influenced by their recollections in the same way that we are.  This might possibly be reflected in a surge in period 1 or 2 models, attractive because of colourful liveries and smaller size making them suitable for space saver layouts.

 

Bachmann have probably done all the research and has many of the parts already in the range. They also have a track record of that era of locomotives to a high standard. 

 

Tender, boiler, chassis, wheels, etc. were all found on different models that Bachmann already do.

 

The Dukedog/Earl is just a Duke with a set of Bulldog frames after all. They had the same size wheels 5' 8".

 

BTW. The last eleven Dukes lasted into BR days. 9089 lasted until July 1951 which was longer than the Bulldogs which were gone in March.

 

 

Jason

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4 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Bachmann have probably done all the research and has many of the parts already in the range. They also have a track record of that era of locomotives to a high standard. 

 

Tender, boiler, chassis, wheels, etc. were all found on different models that Bachmann already do.

 

The Dukedog/Earl is just a Duke with a set of Bulldog frames after all. They had the same size wheels 5' 8".

 

BTW. The last eleven Dukes lasted into BR days. 9089 lasted until July 1951 which was longer than the Bulldogs which were gone in March.

 

 

Jason

 

For those that can remember back to the 1960s think it was the then meccano magazine ran a series of article  on the conversion of the Airfix City of Truro kit into Dukedogs/Bulldogs etc. 

Edited by johnd
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15 hours ago, The Johnster said:

A full fat fully retooled 14xx would be a guaranteed seller, but it would need complete retooling and a lot of care in the design; getting an 0-4-2 mech to work reliably has so far stumped Airfix, Hornby, and DJ/Hattons, so any new attempt will have to run really well to shake off the curse.  A Metro is another no-brainer, but if they go down the 14xx route it make more sense to bring out a 517, Fair Rosamund being the most likely.

 

A new tooling 14XX would be brilliant if those challenges could be overcome.

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1 hour ago, Katie87006 said:

 

But the problem is that we do not know if the tooling still exists for the old gwr king class Or the older ic225 sets. They could possibly get more from scrap metal from the tooling than margins from sales. 

 

And that may interfere in the sales of their current king class and forthcoming class 91 sales. Even if priced on the higher side, sets are cheaper than locos at current RRPs. So customers nay just sacrifice detail over price and go for cheaper options. 

 

Last year so many people but the cheaper railroad hst sets. And Hornby cleverly didnt sell matching coaches at the same time with the railroad hst options. Most likely a move made by Hornby to push sales of their full spec hst

Sorry yes if the toolings still exist ( I am aware alot of older toolings were sadly culled and canablised modified etc) and if there is a market for them as RailRoad train sets!

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2 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I would expect that to be resurrected by Rapido at some point. They have measured/scanned it after all.

 

 

 

Jason

Ah yes I completely forgotten about that as it was a few years ago now! I was thinking of Dapols 'N' Gauge model of it. 

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