Ratio Bogie Bolster A kits

[watfordtmc]

Some very nice modelling there.  I’ll be interested to see how these turn out.  I had a further look at the images to work out what could be seen of the underframe.  I managed to count 3 of the queenposts… .  Your wheeze makes the underframe look prototypically busy anyway.

 

On the question of width, my suspicion is that Ratio went with the 7’9” quoted on the sketch.  However, I believe this is the extreme width, i.e. over the stanchion brackets, not the width over the body.  Width over body does not seem to be quoted on the sketch; the nearest thing to it being the width ‘in clear’ between the stanchions when mounted in the bodyside brackets – the 7’3” dimension.

 

I suppose you could slice a bit off one side of the floor mouldings to bring the width down to 29mm, but it would also mean modifying the headstocks and bolsters, and probably have an effect on the bogie mountings as well.  All in all, quite a lot of faff for something no one will notice anyway!

 

All of which highlights the perils of using a diagram and not a proper drawing, as @hmrspaul has pointed out elsewhere.  Although, I still think I’d rather use a diagram than a Roche drawing.

 

Regards

TMc

30/12/2021

 

[Andy Keane]

7 hours ago, watfordtmc said:

Some very nice modelling there.  I’ll be interested to see how these turn out.  I had a further look at the images to work out what could be seen of the underframe.  I managed to count 3 of the queenposts… .  Your wheeze makes the underframe look prototypically busy anyway.

 

On the question of width, my suspicion is that Ratio went with the 7’9” quoted on the sketch.  However, I believe this is the extreme width, i.e. over the stanchion brackets, not the width over the body.  Width over body does not seem to be quoted on the sketch; the nearest thing to it being the width ‘in clear’ between the stanchions when mounted in the bodyside brackets – the 7’3” dimension.

 

I suppose you could slice a bit off one side of the floor mouldings to bring the width down to 29mm, but it would also mean modifying the headstocks and bolsters, and probably have an effect on the bogie mountings as well.  All in all, quite a lot of faff for something no one will notice anyway!

 

All of which highlights the perils of using a diagram and not a proper drawing, as @hmrspaul has pointed out elsewhere.  Although, I still think I’d rather use a diagram than a Roche drawing.

 

Regards

TMc

30/12/2021

 

Yes I thought about the width but could see no easy way of changing it and as I think all agree its much less noticeable than the length.

I have the correct waterslide transfers on order and the phoenix grey wagon paint in stock so will soon be finished on the wagons themselves.

Another thought I had was about the load. I plan to use 3mm dowling to represent telegraph poles but its amazing how much the two will hold. If you allow about 5" per pole and say each wagon would be loaded with three layers of poles, six on the first then five then four you find you need 30 poles to load the wagons and end up needing to buy 12.5 feet of dowling, four one metre lengths just to load two wagons!

That will just leave me needing to source the chains - does anyone have any suggestions for very fine chain? I have heard that ship modellers have anchor chain that might work.

regards

Andy

[simonmcp]

Are Bamboo skewers the correct size for telegraph poles?

[ikcdab]

32 minutes ago, simonmcp said:

Are Bamboo skewers the correct size for telegraph poles?

Diameters are 125/150/175mm. So if your squewers are approx 2mm diameter then you are ok.

 

Here's a great website

 

https://www.telegraphpoleappreciationsociety.org/faq/

 

Ian

[Andy Keane]

33 minutes ago, simonmcp said:

Are Bamboo skewers the correct size for telegraph poles?

These are what I plan to use:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393784309960?hash=item5baf5fb8c8:g:t3wAAOSwAa9hlW~v

I may also use some to construct the actual telegraph poles on the layout when I get that far - they add realsim but are, of course, horribly vulnerable.

[Andy Keane]

2 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

Diameters are 125/150/175mm. So if your squewers are approx 2mm diameter then you are ok.

 

Here's a great website

 

https://www.telegraphpoleappreciationsociety.org/faq/

 

Ian

Those diameters seem rather small - I measured the one near my house and it was basically 10" diameter. Do they ever really use ones only 5" in diameter?

Andy

[Andy Keane]

Miss P and others

Can anyone advise on what colour the decking and bolsters should be on my Macaw wagons please?

Are these wooden and basically should be a dark brown or would they have been GWR wagon grey like the sides or should they be dirty black?

I assume any iron work would have been black and the vertical stanchions also black.

All thoughts most welcome.

Andy

ps - I assume the frames and running gear were all drak grey as well?

Edited December 30, 2021 by Andy Keane

[gwrrob]

I painted the floors on my Bachmann / Mainline models a weathered wood colour.

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by gwrrob
add a photo

[Andy Keane]

2 hours ago, gwrrob said:

I painted the floors on my Bachmann / Mainline models a weathered wood colour.

 

Wow! those are good - way better than I can manage. I read on the GWR.org site that the floors were in fact unpainted and you have captured that perfectly.

[Tony Cane]

9 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

That will just leave me needing to source the chains - does anyone have any suggestions for very fine chain? I have heard that ship modellers have anchor chain that might work.

Langley Models do a range of chain sizes

 

The finest size in black can bee found here

https://www.scalemodelscenery.co.uk/cx005-ultra-fine-black-chain-40-links-per-inch-for-ooon-10351-p.asp

[mike morley]

Try scrolling a short distance down this

https://albionyard.com/fifteen-minute-heroes/

[Andy Keane]

1 hour ago, mike morley said:

Try scrolling a short distance down this

https://albionyard.com/fifteen-minute-heroes/

Brilliant - thanks for this - I have just been adding some base colour to my Macaw floors and was think now what? This is a really nice aid. But it will take me much longer than five minutes!

Andy

[watfordtmc]

On 30/12/2021 at 09:11, Andy Keane said:

Another thought I had was about the load. I plan to use 3mm dowling to represent telegraph poles but its amazing how much the two will hold. If you allow about 5" per pole and say each wagon would be loaded with three layers of poles, six on the first then five then four you find you need 30 poles to load the wagons and end up needing to buy 12.5 feet of dowling, four one metre lengths just to load two wagons!

That will just leave me needing to source the chains - does anyone have any suggestions for very fine chain? I have heard that ship modellers have anchor chain that might work.

regards

Andy

 

Crikey! That’s a lot of doweling for two models.  Geoff Kent, in the third of his wagon modelling trilogy (Ref 1), and faced with a similar challenge; to represent loads (in every sense) of sawn planks, used a plasticard core around which he stuck very thin wood to represent the planks.

This gave the appearance of sawn planks without the expense, or tedium, of building the load up plank by plank.  I wonder if a similar thing could be done with your telegraph poles.  You would have to saw off short sections to represent the ends of the, non-existent, poles which will be tedious, but it ought to be less consuming of dowel.

It would need a bit of trial and error to work out the best shape for the core though.

 

Geoff also discusses chaining, in the context of a double bolster, and suggests that you would need a chain around 2mm link size; something between 15 to 20 links per inch.  His recommendation was Langley’s.

 

On 30/12/2021 at 14:57, Andy Keane said:

Can anyone advise on what colour the decking and bolsters should be on my Macaw wagons please?

Are these wooden and basically should be a dark brown or would they have been GWR wagon grey like the sides or should they be dirty black?

I assume any iron work would have been black and the vertical stanchions also black.

All thoughts most welcome.

Andy

ps - I assume the frames and running gear were all drak grey as well?

 

@Miss Prism‘s bible (Ref 2) doesn’t devote a lot of space to the painting of GW wagons.  The general principle seems to be: Black below the sole bar, and Grey for the sole bar (& headstocks) and all parts above.

 

I would say that the bolsters will have been painted ‘body’ colour – grey.  Looking at the images in Refs 3 & 4, I actually wonder if the stanchions and chains were painted at all.  However, if they were it would seem they too were in body colour.  Both references have images of vehicles in service, and it appears to me that stanchions, definitely, and the chains occasionally have a rough cast look to them as though they’re dirty and rusty but not painted.

Both items would of course be subject to a lot of wear and tear through loading, unloading and general abrasion in service.

 

On this basis, the bogies and trussing should be black, and everything else grey, with the deck of the wagon being unpainted and all of it subject to weathering.

 

References

1. The 4mm Wagon Part Three: Conflats & Containers, Wagons for long loads & steel, Brake Vans and Finishing touches, Kent G, Wild Swan Publications (Didcot) 2004.  pp 120 for suggestion on timber loads, pp 57-58 for discussion on chaining loads.
2. GWR Goods Wagons, Atkins A, Beard W, Tourret R, Oxford Publishing Co (Hersham) 2013.  pp 64-68 for discussion on livery and lettering.
3. Great Western Wagons Appendix, Russell J, Oxford Publishing Co (Headington) 1974.  Figs 26, 29, 100, 224, 226, 227, 239, 240, 298 & 299.
4. Freight Wagons and Loads in service on the Great Western Railway and British Railways, Western Region, Russell J, Oxford Publishing Co (Headington) 1981.  Figs 133-161 & 301.

• I also checked the relevant works on LMS and LNER wagons, which seem to follow the same principles; bolsters etc. were painted body colour, at least for the official photograph, but the stanchions and chains seem well worn in service.

Regards

TMc

03/01/2022

 

[Miss Prism]

Everything in grey, except for the unpainted chain.

[Andy Keane]

2 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Everything in grey, except for the unpainted chain.

But unpainted planked floor?

[57xx]

On 30/12/2021 at 09:11, Andy Keane said:

Another thought I had was about the load. I plan to use 3mm dowling to represent telegraph poles but its amazing how much the two will hold. If you allow about 5" per pole and say each wagon would be loaded with three layers of poles, six on the first then five then four you find you need 30 poles to load the wagons and end up needing to buy 12.5 feet of dowling, four one metre lengths just to load two wagons!

 

How about using 2 full length poles on the outside of the first layer with 4 short stumps (maybe 5-10mm long) at each end for the middle 4 poles of which you can't see anything but the ends, 2 full poles on the next layer sandwiching 3 middle stumps and then 4 full poles for the top? That's 7 lengths saved per load. Basically you're making up a hollow load, just representing what you can see from the outside.

[57xx]

9 hours ago, watfordtmc said:

The general principle seems to be: Black below the sole bar, and Grey for the sole bar (& headstocks) and all parts above.

 

That was applicable for the other 3 companies of the Big 4, but GWR painted everything in grey, including all ironwork below the solebar.

[Andy Keane]

39 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

How about using 2 full length poles on the outside of the first layer with 4 short stumps (maybe 5-10mm long) at each end for the middle 4 poles of which you can't see anything but the ends, 2 full poles on the next layer sandwiching 3 middle stumps and then 4 full poles for the top? That's 7 lengths saved per load. Basically you're making up a hollow load, just representing what you can see from the outside.

In the end 2mm and 3mm craft sticks are cheap as chips on ebay - 50 for a couple of pounds, so I will go full load on these wagons.

BTW is everyone agreed that the wagons were all grey including the stanchions and bolsters but the wooden floors were bare wood.

[57xx]

I would say allover grey, including stanchions, but excluding bolsters. I can't see any pics in the big tome that screams out "painted bolster", some however look much more like unpainted bolsters and I can't think why they would paint them and not any of the other internal woodwork.

 

Ref the wood colour, it could be anything from the example shown by Rob above to a silvery grey, depending on the amount of weathering, sun bleaching and loads carried. The main thing is to try and stay away from dark browns and stick to the lighter colours, with low-lights of black/dark grey.

[Andy Keane]

On 03/01/2022 at 11:32, 57xx said:

I would say allover grey, including stanchions, but excluding bolsters. I can't see any pics in the big tome that screams out "painted bolster", some however look much more like unpainted bolsters and I can't think why they would paint them and not any of the other internal woodwork.

 

Ref the wood colour, it could be anything from the example shown by Rob above to a silvery grey, depending on the amount of weathering, sun bleaching and loads carried. The main thing is to try and stay away from dark browns and stick to the lighter colours, with low-lights of black/dark grey.

My current plan is to assume the bolsters started painted grey and then got bashed and weathered while the planks were always bare wood and thus will be lighter, like this:

Mostly this is going to be academic when its all obscured by those telegraph poles though - and I am now debating what colour new poles would be - I am going with a creosote brown/black I think.

Andy

Edited April 7, 2022 by Andy Keane

[Miss Prism]

3 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

But unpainted planked floor?

 

Yes of course.

[Andy Keane]

Have now constructed two loads of telegraph poles as per the photo of one loaded that way:

Some chain is in the post so just the bogies to attach and the lettering to add.

I am less sure about the stanchions. Not sure they would strictly be needed for loads like this and they will be horribly vulnerable but they are there in the picture.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Andy Keane

[mike morley]

Masokits do etched stanchions

[Enterprisingwestern]

19 minutes ago, mike morley said:

Masokits do etched stanchions

 

Probably in 5 pieces, 2 of which don't fit because he was given the wrong information, 1 which he forgot to etch the hole in, and all so exasperating difficult to assemble.

 

Mike.

 

PS. Tongue in cheek from a satisfied but exasperated customer.

[watfordtmc]

Judging by images of loaded Macaw’s, the stanchions were left in place in nearly every instance.  In your specific case, the stanchions would be the only thing that would stop the load from rolling off the wagon as further layers were loaded onto the base layer, and also would keep the load in place until it was chained up.

 

Even once the load was chained in place, realistically no one was going to take the stanchions out and as they themselves seem to have been chained to the wagon you’re going to have to model them somehow.

 

The plastic stanchions will be vulnerable, and the brass ones will damage you… and there’s, apparently, a reason why Masokits* are so named, but on a family website…

 

Regards (& good luck with the stanchions…)

TMc

05/01/2022

 

* and when I ran the spell check on this reply, it wanted to change Masokits to something quite unsuitable for RM Web!