MSC Kitson 0-6-0T build from 88D models kit

[Mol_PMB]

20 minutes ago, Ruston said:

This may be of interest from 7mins 55. Not MSC but a similar Kitson.

Many thanks - that's nice to see a video clip of one. I think that's K 5358/1921, almost exactly the same as K 5357/1921 which was MSC 72.

 

This photo from Gordon Edgar on Flickr shows 72 at Mode Wheel in March 1963. The loco on the right is 80, 81 or 82:

This is one of the photos I'm currently using to design my bunker etch, as it shows some of the interior details. Also note that the bars on the spectacles are actually on the brass spectacle frame rather than the cab itself, and the nearer one is spun round the wrong way. I've just done the etch artwork for the spectacles with provision for the bars like this.

 

One thing I'm struggling for is cab interior photos looking forward, though I can glean some information from the rear 3/4 views I have. What a pity the gricers at Coppice didn't take some photos when they climbed in the cab on that video!

[Mol_PMB]

I've been mostly working on the etch artwork this evening, and I've drawn most of the parts I need. Still a few more bits and pieces to do, and then position them all in a contiguous fret.

Here's the parts done so far:

I'm following the existing strategy of the kit in that most of the rivet detail is on half-etched overlays, with a full-thickness backing behind.

Some of these will overlay existing parts such as the tank tops.

That's enough for tonight, I'll try and get the artwork finished tomorrow, including another trawl through the photos to see what I might have forgotten!

[Mol_PMB]

I've done nothing in the workshop today, but I have achieved several useful things:

 

(1) Completed the Kitson etch artwork, as seen here:

There was too much for an A5 sheet but not enough to fill an A4, so the top left corner has become some overlays I need for another odd ISO container!

There are still a few areas of black where I could squeeze in a couple more parts. I'm wondering whether to add etches for the reverser and regulator so that I can put a bit more detail in the cab. They will be somewhat conjectural.

 

(2) I have taken delivery of the brass tube for the boiler; this needs cutting to length and some holes drilling. The kit provided a rectangle of nickel silver exactly to size, but I didn't fancy my chances rolling it.

 

(3) I went to see @Rick_Skateboard to talk him through the process of creating etch artwork, as he wants to do a unique 4mm scale coach for his Scottish theme. He'd been having a clearout and found a box of four 7mm wagon kits, mostly unopened, left over from a previous project. There are a few 7mm track components too. So they have now moved from his 'cupboard of shame' to mine, where they have a marginally higher chance of being built and of having somewhere to run.  Thank you - definitely my best Christmas present from anyone other than myself! Probably the best one for my purposes is an MMP diagram 1/108 mineral wagon, you can never have too many 16t minerals! There's a part-built BR brakevan too, which might one day be suitable for an enthusiast's brake van special on the MSC.

 

[Mol_PMB]

Something else has finally arrived, but it seems to be about 43 times too big to fit on the side tank:

I will be adding two miniatures of this to the etch artwork. 

This is the reason why I’m going to the bother of building a loco with a bunker; 72 would have been much easier!

The model loco is going to end up costing twice what the numberplate did...

[rope runner]

I'd also spotted that in the GWRA auction, glad it went to an appreciative home... I do hope you'll be leaving the plate as-is and not attempting any restoration? 

 

Paul A. 

[Mol_PMB]

Progress today has been fairly good amongst all the other things needing doing!

 

I have done final revisions to the etch artwork and that's now ready to go to 4DModelshop for manufacture. Hopefully I'll have the etches back in 10 days or so.

 

I've also done more work on the front bunkers and side tanks. My prototype has small bunkers in front of the cab set into the tanks, but they're not as big as the kit's prototype because mine also has a bunker behind the cab.

So I needed to shorten the bunkers, involving modifying the sloping bunker bottom and the tank tops. I also fitted the coal doors inside the cab.

The last few days' work has produced quite a mess in the bottom of the ultrasonic cleaner!

 

The next job on the loco is to machine my new boiler barrel to fit between the cab and smokebox, then to machine a slot for the motor, and mark out and drill holes for the washout plugs, safety valves and manifold.

That will give me plenty to do while I wait for the custom etches to arrive. I have a couple of other projects to finish too!

 

 

[Sandhole]

18 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Progress today has been fairly good amongst all the other things needing doing!

 

I have done final revisions to the etch artwork and that's now ready to go to 4DModelshop for manufacture. Hopefully I'll have the etches back in 10 days or so.

 

I've also done more work on the front bunkers and side tanks. My prototype has small bunkers in front of the cab set into the tanks, but they're not as big as the kit's prototype because mine also has a bunker behind the cab.

So I needed to shorten the bunkers, involving modifying the sloping bunker bottom and the tank tops. I also fitted the coal doors inside the cab.

The last few days' work has produced quite a mess in the bottom of the ultrasonic cleaner!

 

The next job on the loco is to machine my new boiler barrel to fit between the cab and smokebox, then to machine a slot for the motor, and mark out and drill holes for the washout plugs, safety valves and manifold.

That will give me plenty to do while I wait for the custom etches to arrive. I have a couple of other projects to finish too!

 

 

Lovely work, Mol.
Regards,
Chris.

[Sweet pea]

Mol nice work modelling this kit.

[Mol_PMB]

Thanks Chris and Kevin and all!

 

This afternoon's work has produced the boiler barrel. I started by cutting it roughly to length with a hacksaw, and then used my milling machine to true up the ends (I don't have a lathe, which would have been quicker!)

You can see inside the tube a length of steel bar wrapped with tape to make it a good fit in the tube - this allowed me to clamp the tube firmly without squashing it.

Then I milled out a slot in the firebox area for the motor to come up into - for this the milling machine was definitely the right tool!

I had prepared a drilling template which showed the location of all the holes needed. On the top of the boiler those included the manifold, safety valves, and washout plugs. On the bottom of the boiler there are holes for the boiler band ends to be tucked into.

I then wrapped the template around the boiler and taped it into place:

I then centre-punched the holes, and drilled them out in stages to the required sizes:

 

The next task on this is to add all the details into those holes. The washout plugs and the manifold will be made from bits of scrap etc, but I will need to find a source of 7mm scale Ross Pop safety valves - can anyone point me in the right direction?

They need to look like this:

Edited January 2, 2022 by Mol_PMB
last (prototype) photo added

[Sweet pea]

Mol there Is some very good engineering going on, looks nicely done.

[Mol_PMB]

I have been making a start on the washout plugs. The thick-walled tube is quite a heatsink so a quick application of the blowtorch is needed to get a good joint. This means that everything has to be held in place while the heat is applied, no fingers!

 

I soldered 10BA nuts inside each of the washout plug holes, holding them in place with a 10BA bolt through the hole:

Then I filed the threaded ends of some 10BA bolts to a square shape and inserted them from inside to give the appearance of the washout plug:

It does look quite like this; purists can moan that it isn't a taper thread...

 

For the safety valves, these ones from Phoenix look fairly suitable, they include the fixing flange which is a bonus:

https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/churchward/churchward-loco/churchward-loco-7mmparts/7-70713

 

I should note at this point that the kit does include some nice lost wax brass safety valves, but they're mounted on a bonnet, which the later MSC locos didn't have:

 

Other things I'll need to buy include the whistle and the lubrication cup on top of the dome (for the regulator valve).

 

[Sweet pea]

Mol it's great to see another modellers progress, as it lets you see what goes into these etched kit builds. Keep up the great work.

[Barclay]

That's some proper work going into that - looking great. By the way that number plate causes serious envy !

[Sandhole]

On 02/01/2022 at 16:47, Mol_PMB said:

Thanks Chris and Kevin and all!

 

This afternoon's work has produced the boiler barrel. I started by cutting it roughly to length with a hacksaw, and then used my milling machine to true up the ends (I don't have a lathe, which would have been quicker!)

You can see inside the tube a length of steel bar wrapped with tape to make it a good fit in the tube - this allowed me to clamp the tube firmly without squashing it.

Then I milled out a slot in the firebox area for the motor to come up into - for this the milling machine was definitely the right tool!

I had prepared a drilling template which showed the location of all the holes needed. On the top of the boiler those included the manifold, safety valves, and washout plugs. On the bottom of the boiler there are holes for the boiler band ends to be tucked into.

I then wrapped the template around the boiler and taped it into place:

I then centre-punched the holes, and drilled them out in stages to the required sizes:

 

The next task on this is to add all the details into those holes. The washout plugs and the manifold will be made from bits of scrap etc, but I will need to find a source of 7mm scale Ross Pop safety valves - can anyone point me in the right direction?

They need to look like this:

Superb work.
This will be another masterpiece!
Regards,
Chris.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Sandhole

[Mol_PMB]

I'm back at work now, so progress has slowed a bit. However there has been some more today.

I have fitted a plate below the safety valve holes so that I can fit them, and cut and fitted the end fittings to the boiler barrel, allowing me to bolt it in place to the smokebox and cab front. Happily it fits and looks right!

I've posed the supplied chimney and dome on it. The dome isn't bad, but the chimney is completely wrong for my prototype, 6mm too short and rather too fat too. I suspect the kit's prototype was ruined somewhere in Wiltshire...

I've been having a look online to try and find a more suitable chimney; I know the dimensions I want but it's quite hard to judge the size of what's for sale.

 

Also, Iain at 4Dmodelshop is back from holidays, and has reviewed my etch artwork. I've paid the invoice and the etches will hopefully be made this week. Watch this space next week to see what comes back from Iain...

 

 

 

[Mike 84C]

Fabulous work Mol, easily good enough to be on display in a museum. You have been on enough industrial's to know what controls are in  the cab, as little as possible!

[Mol_PMB]

Many thanks!

Tonight I have been on a ‘research’ trip to the Railway Tavern in Flixton to look at their lovely photo of MSC Kitson 74 and empty their barrel of bitter! Here’s the Kitson on the wall and my friends being anonymous in the gloom:

 

A close-up of part of the photo showing smokebox detail such as a polished star at the top of the door:

I’ve not seen this image anywhere else. It’s not the exact loco I’m building but the photo quality is excellent. 

And it gives me an excuse for a few beers. Cheers! 

[Phil Traxson]

A comment that maybe only you will understand Mol. Was the driver a relative of Seamus Rogers!!

 

[Victor Vectis]

Sam Smiths beer and 'Big Ditch' railway pictures on the wall.

What is there not to like!

[Mol_PMB]

3 minutes ago, Victor Vectis said:

Sam Smiths beer and 'Big Ditch' railway pictures on the wall.

What is there not to like!

Absolutely! There are several other MSC related photos on the walls, most of them are from the canal construction era and they include the locos 'Bollin' and 'Dover'.

I assume the Railway Tavern was named after the CLC railway, although that's about half a mile away. The MSC is a similar distance away in the opposite direction but I suspect the pub has been there longer than the canal.

While the interior decor is MSC railway related, the pub sign outside features a GCR loco which would be correct for a CLC train.

[Mol_PMB]

This evening I have made a start on another of my new custom etches which is primarily for the Kitson. 

Here is most of the new cab back and bunker assembly:

Side overlays are still to be fitted, also various smaller details. It’s looking the part though. 

[Mol_PMB]

I haven’t had a great deal of modelling time today, but I have added the rivet overlays to the tanks. The side overlays came with the kit, while the top and rear overlays are from my custom etch. 

I have also prepared many of the smaller detail parts ready to be added tomorrow. 

 

I’ve just realised that I also missed writing about a bit of a stage with the cab front and cab side overlays and the backhead, but I’ll give more info and photos on those once I’ve added the details. You can just see the cab front assembly in the background of the photo above. 

[Mol_PMB]

Lots of progress to report today on the detailing of the Kitson.

I'll start with the cab, which at present is still in two halves (front and back) though they will eventually be united when I solder on the side overlays.

On the back half, I have completed the following tasks:

1. Reinforced the coal rails with some strips and solder

2. Added the lamp brackets from my custom etch and some wire to locate them and represent the bolts

3. Added the cab doors (in open position as per all the photos) which were from the kit

4. Added cab door handles and catches from scrap

5. Added bunker coal hatch handles from wire

6. Added a strip up the middle of the bunker access doors from scrap

7. Added the cab handrail top brackets from my custom etch.

 

Now to the cab front, and the work done here is from a couple of days ago but I forgot to report it. I fitted the cab front overlay from my custom etch to the cab front from the kit, and added the cab sides from the kit. My cab front overlay had more holes than the kit so I did some drilling through too:

 

Inside the cab, the kit makes no provision. Few of the photos I have show much detail, but I wanted to put something in.

 

Having had a trawl of the internet, I found that 62C models offered a good selection of lost-wax-cast steam loco detailing parts. The difficulty was that it was hard to tell which would suit my Kitson. I contacted the owner Peter Mullen and he was very helpful, measuring up a load of parts for me so that I could select the right ones. So, my Kitson now has the backhead from a North British N14/N15, which is a very good fit in diameter and height:

I have also bought Ross pop safety valves, a suitable whistle, and some injectors and cab gauges from Peter.

Fitting those, building the manifold and adding the plumbing is the next step in this area of the model.

Here's the real one on the outside:

 

[Mol_PMB]

Now, moving on to the frame:

These Kitsons were built with four sets of steps, two of those in the kit were spot on but the one for the cab were not suitable for my prototype so I basically copied the others in the kit on my custom etch. I made a right hash of these, I should have curved them before laminating them, and then when I did get round to curving them I stupidly curved them the wrong way to start with. Sigh.

Eventually after some colourful language, much use of abrasives and the soldering iron, I think I have recovered them reasonably. Hopefully when it's all painted black and weathered my mistakes won't be so obvious.

The MSC Railway added a fifth set of steps to their Kitsons, on the fireman's side at the front. I'd made provision for this in my custom etch:

Also seen here are the grab rails added above the middle steps.

The kit came with some lovely machined buffers and circular packing pieces which are no doubt correct for the Cardiff Railway Kitsons. But the MSC ones had buffers with square bases and square packing pieces. For the buffers themselves I was lucky enough to find something nearly suitable in my bits box, left over from a previous kit where I had replaced the buffers. On my custom etch I had included some square buffer packing pieces folded up in three layers, so I formed and soldered these and rubbed down the edges. The result is quite satisfying.

The circular surround to the coupling slot was also a part from my custom etch.

Looking above the buffers, I have also added the lamp irons from the custom etch. The one on the right (as we're looking at it) is extra-long as it doubles as a handrail above the steps added by the MSC.

 

Then to the back of the loco, where I did the same with the buffers and also added a reinforcing angle under the overhanging footplating. Under the bunker there are two brackets which might be lamp irons but could also be fire iron brackets. I'm not sure, but I made provision for them in the custom etch and I have fitted them:

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Mol_PMB
(typo)

[Mol_PMB]

And finally for today, the tanks. Again, I've been adding detailing. This includes:

(1) fine machined angle at the front and back of the access cutout

(2) grab rails above the cutout

(3) fire iron brackets on the fireman's side only (these were from the kit)

(4) hand rail brackets at the cab doorway, from my custom etch

(5) handbrake, on the fireman's side. I'd included the brackets for this in my custom etch but the column itself is made from some scraps of tube and wire and a 10BA bolt. I'm quite pleased with how it has turned out.