Lubricating sticky point motors - anything but WD40!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Hello

 

I have a couple of sticky PECO point motors.

 

I would normally used WD40, but a friend has told me, "Whatever you do, DON'T use WD40 - it is the WORST thing you can use."

 

Apparently it works in the short term, but in the long term it collects dust and makes matters worse.

 

My friend recommends graphite powder. I have a puffer of Kadee Greas'em but the motors are difficult to get to and the modern style of PECO motor which is sealed at both ends.

 

I have inherited some SERVISOL from somewhere, which my friend says is better, but still not as good as graphite powder.

 

My sticky point motors are underneath boards in my fiddle yard and these are stored one on top of the other when my layout is not at exhibitions and so in theory they should be pretty 'dust-free' most of the time.

 

Thoughts please

 

 

[Il Grifone]

I would agree with the use of graphite. Rubbing with a pencil is an alternative. Avoid WD40 (it's not a lubricant (Water Dispersant formula 40) and '3 in 1'.

 

Sealed units are a good idea, until they start giving problems! The idea is that then they should be replaced....

[Michael Edge]

If you want a spray use GT85, it won't harm anything, unlike WD40.

[Pete the Elaner]

6 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

I would agree with the use of graphite. Rubbing with a pencil is an alternative. Avoid WD40 (it's not a lubricant (Water Dispersant formula 40) and '3 in 1'.

 

Sealed units are a good idea, until they start giving problems! The idea is that then they should be replaced....

 

+1 for avoiding WD40. It is a great product for doing its job: dispersing water. I'm not sure how it became used as a lubricant. It is based on a thin oil, so works well in the short term, but it evaporates after about 2-3 weeks.

[Michael Edge]

3 in 1 does horrible things to some plastics as well - don't use it.

[JeffP]

WD40 make a silicone spray too.

[ikcdab]

The problem is that we (and I include myself) apply too much lubricant so that the item is swimming in it. The aerosols don't help.

I have used GT85 but I spray an amount into the lid and then apply with a small brush.

I bought a model railway oil in a dispenser that gives out one small drop at a time. It's on Amazon somewhere.  

The trick is to think how much lube you want to apply then half it or even apply a quarter of that amount.

Try and find out why your point motors are sticky. It might be they are clogged with dirt or catching on something. Clean them out before applying lube.

Ian

[ejstubbs]

5 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

I bought a model railway oil in a dispenser that gives out one small drop at a time.

 

This might be the product you're thinking of: https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/gaugemaster-gm619.html.  The identical item can also be found under other brand names (including on Amazon, as you mentioned).

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, JeffP said:

WD40 make a silicone spray too.

While their key product is the traditional WD40, which is available literally everywhere, they do a whole range of products.

 

https://wd40.co.uk/

 

Look for their specialist products.

[DCB]

Is it lack of lubrication or misalignment? If anything drags the point will stick, even leaving the spring in the surface mount extension will stop them throwing on 16 Volts. equally gunge or ballast fouling the point blades or contact tags or badly aligned micro switches.   Common or garden WD40 leaves a sticky residue which gums up delicate mechanisms. My Father in Law, a watch and clock maker, hates the stuff as it gums up clock mechanisms.  Doesn't stop me using it on his Hammant and Morgan Point motors, big hairy chested beasts mounted inaccessibly under baseboards where only the spout of a mini spray can of Poundland WD (or 3 in 1) can reach.  One particular beast (out of over 30)  needs regular oiling every three years or so.  But they did need very careful setting up.

My Peco motors are all old style and surface mount and have never been lubricated.  Depending on how they are wired it could also be a lack of power.  Usual scenario pair of motors on a crossover or 3 way wired together everything else wired separately. Or trying to use an off the shelf CDU to throw 6 motors together.  .

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

 

This might be the product you're thinking of: https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magento/gaugemaster-gm619.html.  The identical item can also be found under other brand names (including on Amazon, as you mentioned).

Be aware.

They are not always Identical contents, although the dispenser might be

My first one which I bought, at a show, was sold as model railway lubricant. IMO it wasn't, it seemed overly viscous and eventually became unusuable. (the body also became hard and split!)

 

I now have another identical oiler but this one (also sold as model railway lubricant) actually contains watch and clock oil, it is very light coloured and also much less viscous than the first. It is also much more suitable for our usages.

 

EDIT

I thought WD40 was for getting old BMC minis to start when the distributor got damp!

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by melmerby

[TheSignalEngineer]

3 hours ago, ikcdab said:

It might be they are clogged with dirt or catching on something. Clean them out before applying lube.

I have 24 seeps which were installed seven years ago. Other than cleaning with IPA the only problems have been two refusing to throw one way. Thet were easily fixed by slackening the fixing screws for a minor tweek to the alignment.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

52 minutes ago, DCB said:

Depending on how they are wired it could also be a lack of power.  Usual scenario pair of motors on a crossover or 3 way wired together everything else wired separately. 

 

You have hit the nail on the head. They are a pair on a crossover. When fired by themselves, as a pair, they both work very well, but when fired as part of a long route selection the can be 'iffy'.

 

The trouble is that the route selection fires points (or pairs of points) at one second intervals (to give the CDU's time to recharge) and when fired like that one second recharge is really not enough for this particular pair. The trouble is that we can't increase the time just for this one crossover, we would have to increase the time for all points in the sequence and that would greatly increase the time it would take to set a route.

 

I will experiment with all of your suggestions - thank you.

[peach james]

Can you reprogram them to fire 1 at a time vs both at the same time?  Or are you out of outputs to do that dodge?  DS 52 has a CDU, could be used ?

 

James

[Michael Hodgson]

Are you sure the sticky point motor is a lubrictaion issue?

 

I have known them to appear sticky when the actual fault is the way they are mounted - they can be physically out of alignment or there could be some mechanical obstruction such as a piece of ballast making it difficult to throw, especially if the problem is in one direction only.

 

[locomad2]

I assume you mean the standard peco point motor pl10? Metal body, bar and pin. I've a few old plastic types must be 60 years old they break up.

 

I've about 60 metal ones on layout most are 10 to 30 years old, a few have started to stick and the odd one stuck, disconted from point the bar doesn't run free. The stuck one I cut up, it was rust inside the black type before it goes red oxide. The others I added some "airline 10" oil used in compressed air tools, seem to work, that was about 7 years ago. No problems since

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, locomad2 said:

I assume you mean the standard peco point motor pl10? Metal body, bar and pin. I've a few old plastic types must be 60 years old they break up.

 

 

That's the first time I've seen a mention of the old plastic type. I had a small number - I suspect I got them passed off as old stock in the mid 1970s. They were rubbish. They were always advertised as just 'Peco Point Motors'.

Anyone know when the metal type was released - just curious.