Swindon Class 123 Intercity Units

[Wagonmaster]

The next dmu in the workshops is a Swindon Class 123 Intercity four car dmu. The model is being constructed in 'as built' condition.  I have progressed reasonably well with the bodies fairly complete, just a few little detail bits to sort out.

 

So, with attention turning to interiors, I was wondering if anyone knew what colour the seats were originally? I think there were also curtains fitted and if so, what colour these were. I'm guessing here that curtains were only fitted to the compartment windows and not the corridor side? I've already had a look at the excellent Railcar website, but it just states 'followed mainline practice'. Would appreciate any help.

 

In the meantime, below is a photo of one of the driving cars. Still a bit to be done, mainly to the underframe, as you can see.

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Wagonmaster
Reinstating photo

[Michael Hodgson]

Were the gangway boards really yellow in as built condition?

Thought they were originally speed whiskers.

[Wagonmaster]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Were the gangway boards really yellow in as built condition?

Thought they were originally speed whiskers.

According to the Railcar site, speed whiskers had been replaced by small yellow warning panels by the time these units were delivered. I certainly haven't seen any photos of any sets with whiskers!

 

Were you perhaps thinking of the WR gangwayed Gloucester parcels units?

[ISW]

18 hours ago, Wagonmaster said:

So, with attention turning to interiors, I was wondering if anyone knew what colour the seats were originally? I think there were also curtains fitted and if so, what colour these were. I'm guessing here that curtains were only fitted to the compartment windows and not the corridor side? I've already had a look at the excellent Railcar website, but it just states 'followed mainline practice'. Would appreciate any help

Have you tried the Colour Rail website (https://colourrail.co.uk/gallery/traction). On the Class 123 page there are a few external colour photos of them in green.

 

Then there is this one in "BR 1st Generation DMUs" (Stuart Mackay):

 

Hopefully you can make out the curtain colour (or is that the interior?).

 

Ian

[45125]

10 hours ago, ISW said:

Have you tried the Colour Rail website (https://colourrail.co.uk/gallery/traction). On the Class 123 page there are a few external colour photos of them in green.

 

Then there is this one in "BR 1st Generation DMUs" (Stuart Mackay):

 

Hopefully you can make out the curtain colour (or is that the interior?).

 

Ian

That's the corridor interior.

[Wagonmaster]

Thanks ISW and 45125 for your contributions. Yes, that is the corridor side of the DMC. However, a useful photo as it answered another question on whether there were hand rails fitted as on mainline Mk.I corridor stock. There is!

 

Looking at some more pictures following ISW's suggestion, the curtains I can see seem to be a brown colour. Is this right? Still can't make out any seat colours though.

[ColinK]

I remember dmus having a orange/brown colour curtains.

[Wagonmaster]

9 hours ago, ColinK said:

I remember dmus having a orange/brown colour curtains.

Thanks for your reply ColinK.  Appreciated. Just to clarify, in what period do you remember this colour and was it in Second Class? Thanks 

[SP Steve]

There are some reasonable images (b&w though) on the following facebook group:

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/569230660647798/posts/569872020583662/

[ColinK]

52 minutes ago, Wagonmaster said:

Thanks for your reply ColinK.  Appreciated. Just to clarify, in what period do you remember this colour and was it in Second Class? Thanks 

 

Late 70s early 80s in second class - never went 1st.

[The Johnster]

They were all in blue/grey by that time, and the curtains has been replaced with the orange/brown you remember.  I think, but would not swear to it, that they were a cream colour in second and dark blue in first while the sets were in the lined green livery.  I cannot recall them in 1966 plain blue livery, unlike the cross country 119/120s, and the same goes for the Trans-Pennine sets; IIRC they went straight to blue/grey, though it is possible that some retained syp and white cab roofs if they were repainted 1966/7. 

, 

[giz]

18 hours ago, The Johnster said:

They were all in blue/grey by that time, and the curtains has been replaced with the orange/brown you remember.  I think, but would not swear to it, that they were a cream colour in second and dark blue in first while the sets were in the lined green livery.  I cannot recall them in 1966 plain blue livery, unlike the cross country 119/120s, and the same goes for the Trans-Pennine sets; IIRC they went straight to blue/grey, though it is possible that some retained syp and white cab roofs if they were repainted 1966/7. 

, 

There appears to have been at least one vehicle in all blue:

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/2385

 

 

[pippindoo]

This any use? Taken at Morecambe where the units often did a couple of trips on a weekend, it shows the shade of orange in at least the First Class end. I seem to remember they also had cream plastic covered antimacassars too. You probably know that class 123 cars featured in a few of the Trans Pennine sets in later years. Used to love hearing the spectacular rasp from the exhaust as they powered away. Happy Days!

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by pippindoo

[Wagonmaster]

2 hours ago, pippindoo said:

This any use? Taken at Morecambe where the units often did a couple of trips on a weekend, it shows the shade of orange in at least the First Class end. I seem to remember they also had cream plastic covered antimacassars too. You probably know that class 123 cars featured in a few of the Trans Pennine sets in later years. Used to love hearing the spectacular rasp from the exhaust as they powered away. Happy Days!

 

Thanks Pippindoo, like the photo. In blue/grey days, the curtains were an orange/brown colour across the dmu fleet. Usually just in 1st Class by this stage though. However, my model is from the earlier green period and the curtains and seating upholstery were different colours. Thing is, what?

 

Maybe I should have just made a blue/grey version! ;-)

 

[The Johnster]

No, don’t do that, they looked so much more dignified in lined bottle green…

[45125]

The curtains in Second class where a dark green and first class a strange grey/fawn colour when in green livery.

[Wagonmaster]

On 07/01/2022 at 19:43, 45125 said:

The curtains in Second class where a dark green and first class a strange grey/fawn colour when in green livery.

Thanks for that info 45125. Sounds like the first class  curtains were a similar colour to those in the Class 120 first class.

 

Do you have any idea of the seat colours?

[Simon Lee]

16 hours ago, Wagonmaster said:

Thanks for that info 45125. Sounds like the first class  curtains were a similar colour to those in the Class 120 first class.

 

Do you have any idea of the seat colours?

 

Try www.railcar.co.uk 

 

The section on the 123's gives details if the seat colours. 

 

The moquette referred to was green and brownish  or red and brownish stripes as per LHCS but, at the time. Can't  remember offhand which was which.

 

The colours denoted smoking or non smoking accommodation. Robert Carrolls LHCS Yahoo group has files which may help you further.

 

 

 

[Wagonmaster]

3 hours ago, Simon Lee said:

 

Try www.railcar.co.uk 

 

The section on the 123's gives details if the seat colours. 

 

The moquette referred to was green and brownish  or red and brownish stripes as per LHCS but, at the time. Can't  remember offhand which was which.

 

The colours denoted smoking or non smoking accommodation. Robert Carrolls LHCS Yahoo group has files which may help you further.

 

 

 

Thanks for your reply Simon. I have tried the Railcar site, it's my usual first stop for dmu's. However, I haven't seen any mention of seat or curtain colours for Class 123's! I'll have to read it again, maybe I'm missing it? All I can see is a reference saying they followed mainline stock, which I guess is what you're quoting?

 

I could try Robert Carrolls LHCS group, but it does specifically state that multiple units are outside the scope of the group.

 

Thanks again

[Simon Lee]

Suggest a Google search should lead you to the Bluebell Railway site, which as a page describing coach seat moquette colours, for LHCS. 

 

As stated on the Railcar site, the units were finished with contemporary LHCS material. I believe the Bluebell site is divided into decades, referencing the 60s section should provide you with the information you require.

 

[SRman]

On 07/01/2022 at 02:47, giz said:

There appears to have been at least one vehicle in all blue:

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/2385

 

 

 

More likely a class 104 vehicle. There is a photo of such a combination in the book "British Railways DMUs in Colour for the modeller".

[giz]

1 hour ago, SRman said:

 

More likely a class 104 vehicle. There is a photo of such a combination in the book "British Railways DMUs in Colour for the modeller".

A 104 in a western region set at Didcot in 1968? Maybe when they were transferred to the Trans Pennines. Also the Railcar link is to a 1968 photo at Cardiff Central. The door and window layout in that do not match a 104.

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by giz

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, SRman said:

 

More likely a class 104 vehicle. There is a photo of such a combination in the book "British Railways DMUs in Colour for the modeller".

I cannot remember which thread we discussed this coach but I do recall that the conclusion was it was a Inter-city trailer second. I was able to check it by putting the image in Gimp and took out the perspective which then clearly showed the window arrangement. Stu' s photo then confirmed it.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Clive Mortimore

[The Johnster]

Not sure that the 104 roof profile matched the mk1 profile of the 123s, and the blue coach in this photo does, exactly.  But there is something that looks like a syp poking into view, and I don't recall the 123s having these offhand; the gangway cover was painted yellow instead.  That said, I don't remember ever seeing a 123 in plain blue livery!

[45125]

On 10/01/2022 at 01:30, The Johnster said:

Not sure that the 104 roof profile matched the mk1 profile of the 123s, and the blue coach in this photo does, exactly.  But there is something that looks like a syp poking into view, and I don't recall the 123s having these offhand; the gangway cover was painted yellow instead.  That said, I don't remember ever seeing a 123 in plain blue livery!

It has full yellow end, the look above the cab front window, the yellow finishes level with the upright side  of the same window not as the later finish with about an inch of yellow beyond the window.