Hornby 2022 - Diesel/Electric Range

[Scottish-Exile]

56 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

There is one place with Drax wagons…. 
 

 

Image shows the original Hattons release from 2016.

 

I get that 500 seems the norm for a limited edition loco, i.e. the Bachmann Reps Editions, but for wagons, when most people would want 6, 8 or 10 or more to make a decent rake (budget and layout size dependent) then it seems pretty ridiculous. 

 

As for an earlier comment about building up demand etc, then again, I can't help but think Hornby have seriously misjudged. We're not talking Gucci Handbags or Prada shoes, where limited editions draw a frenzy with collectors paying ten-fold for the chance to own exclusivity. These are at the end of the day, just model railway wagons.

[St. Simon]

4 hours ago, scouse889 said:

I am glad to see Hornby have produced tooling for additional coaches to enable nine car 80x trains to be modelled. Is there any difference in the intermediate vehicles for the 800s versus the 801s/802s? I ask only because I wonder if we might see the missing coaches produced in the future to enable the five car 'Celebrating Scotland' set made into the full length nine car train? Hornby did something a bit similar with the Hitachi test train pack, producing the intermediate coaches at a later date...

 

Hi,

 

In general there is little difference between 800 and 801 / 802 variants, however there is enough for it to be noticeable.

 

An 802 has larger / more reo-static fans (I think that's there name, please correct me if I'm wrong) on the roof for the better dynamic brakes and will have larger fuel tanks on the underframe.

 

The 801s will have fewer generator sets on the underframes, as they only have a single donkey engine rather than the 5 in a 9-car 800s.

 

I don't think there is many over differences, the advantage of modern modular design of Multiple Units is that there are relative few detail differences between batches of units.

 

Simon

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I looked on Hatton's earlier, and they haven't yet put any of the 2022 Hornby stuff into their "Recent Additions" section.

 

Presumably waiting to see if they are going to be getting anything.

 

John

 

Too busy trying to sell me two different types of Manors and Class 21/29s....

 

 

 

Been bombarded by emails about those over the last two days. Not just from Hattons mind.

 

[TomScrut]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

There is one place with Drax wagons…. 
 

and they say its a limited edition of 500 each…

 

but..
 

they are already dinging the price up….£70…

 

https://oliviastrains.com/product/Hornby-r60176-drax-102t-biomass-hopper-in-drax-powering-tomorrow-livery-pack-1/

 

It does annoy me how retailers do that, they get a margin built into the RRP then take the you know what at what they will sell them for.

 

500 each, no wonder they are in short supply! I can't help but think that somebody there saw it as something a noisy few wanted rather than a decent amount.

[Paul.Uni]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I looked on Hatton's earlier, and they haven't yet put any of the 2022 Hornby stuff into their "Recent Additions" section.

You're going to have a long wait. IIRC Hattons are tier 3.

[Dunsignalling]

13 minutes ago, Paul.Uni said:

You're going to have a long wait. IIRC Hattons are tier 3.

Which I presumed to be the reason. 

 

I wonder how soon it might be before they decide they can't be arsed dealing with Hornby any longer and launch more in-house products and/or shift their emphasis to promoting other brands.

 

I suspect that, unless there is a carrot of possible promotion to Tier 2 being dangled in front of them, it may not be long.

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[TomScrut]

50 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Which I presumed to be the reason. 

 

I wonder how soon it might be before they decide they can't be arsed dealing with Hornby any longer and launch more in-house products and/or shift their emphasis to promoting other brands.

 

I suspect that, unless there is a carrot of possible promotion to Tier 2 being dangled in front of them, it may not be long.

 

 

The thing is, from Hornby's point of view, I think they will want to keep the dealers without their own product ranges closest to them. Ultimately, if Hattons don't stock something then people will buy it elsewhere if they want it and so keeping Hattons at arms length probably isn't hurting them. I think there is probably a bigger following for the products any manufacturer makes than there is for any given dealer, and that applies to most things (not just model railways). Ultimately the product is what ends up in your house, not the person who sells you it. Whilst we can have relationships with retailers, we go to them to buy things we want.

[Mark Saunders]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Which I presumed to be the reason. 

 

I wonder how soon it might be before they decide they can't be arsed dealing with Hornby any longer and launch more in-house products and/or shift their emphasis to promoting other brands.

 

I suspect that, unless there is a carrot of possible promotion to Tier 2 being dangled in front of them, it may not be long.

 

How many of us are buying supermarkets own brand products?

 

Tesco have three versions of own label/brand!

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

 

The thing is, from Hornby's point of view, I think they will want to keep the dealers without their own product ranges closest to them. Ultimately, if Hattons don't stock something then people will buy it elsewhere if they want it and so keeping Hattons at arms length probably isn't hurting them. I think there is probably a bigger following for the products any manufacturer makes than there is for any given dealer, and that applies to most things (not just model railways). Ultimately the product is what ends up in your house, not the person who sells you it. Whilst we can have relationships with retailers, we go to them to buy things we want.

 

 

Worth remembering Hattons has outlasted every single manufacturer and major model shop in the country, and all the magazines as well. That includes more than half a dozen different manufacturers calling themselves Hornby....

 

That's not luck. That's more than seventy five years of knowing the market.

 

When this version of Hornby goes to the wall and looking at the signs I don't think it's going to be very long without significant change, Hattons will still be there.

 

 

Jason

[Ollie P Learning OO gauge]

On 10/01/2022 at 13:49, TomScrut said:

 

I am a bit confused about these, are they packs of 2 wagons (and therefore only £22.50 each after discount) or for one wagon as the livery is different on either side? The fact it says pack to me means 2 wagons but my gut says it is 1 wagon given the pricing and the artwork could be on both sides.

See these…. Compare the Hornby packs to the revolution double packs and actually it does appear Hornby are doing a double pack although I simply cannot believe this to be the case for £50….

[wombatofludham]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Which I presumed to be the reason. 

 

I wonder how soon it might be before they decide they can't be arsed dealing with Hornby any longer and launch more in-house products and/or shift their emphasis to promoting other brands.

 

I suspect that, unless there is a carrot of possible promotion to Tier 2 being dangled in front of them, it may not be long.

 

Well, their competitors on the other side of the Pennines have already given Hornby a two fingered salute (I do wonder if that was partly down to "Terriergate" and then the Rocket open third farrago), and Bachmann's somewhat antsy cutting of ties with Hatton's doesn't seem to have affected them much, so perhaps it might not be a bad idea.  If two box shifters told Hornby to go away in a reproductive fashion, perhaps they might learn a bit of humility.

I suspect though Hatton's and Rails will be selling unicorn dung to gardeners before Hornby stops being so penile.

[TomScrut]

5 hours ago, Ollie P Learning OO gauge said:

See these…. Compare the Hornby packs to the revolution double packs and actually it does appear Hornby are doing a double pack although I simply cannot believe this to be the case for £50….

 

No, I think what has happened is whoever did the title thought it was a pack because the picture has both sides of the wagon on.

 

5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Worth remembering Hattons has outlasted every single manufacturer and major model shop in the country

 

I wasn't suggesting they'll be going anywhere, more that I don't think Hornby depend on them.

[Pmorgancym]

It's sort of werid there's no 'new' full fat 67s?  The Lima 67 has popped up in Railroad.  The only Hornby 67 is TfW, that was announced last year.

The only facility that tools it flat out on TfW production?  Or the end of the road for the 67?

[Class 158 productions]

39 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said:

It's sort of werid there's no 'new' full fat 67s?  The Lima 67 has popped up in Railroad.  The only Hornby 67 is TfW, that was announced last year.

The only facility that tools it flat out on TfW production?  Or the end of the road for the 67?

It was odd, I’d thought they’d do a load of full fat royal ones. Still a good tooling and a model Hornby have monopoly over. Maybe they heard another manufacturer planning and decided to put out the cheap one, as a warning? Conspiracy theories

[ruggedpeak]

36 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said:

It's sort of werid there's no 'new' full fat 67s?  The Lima 67 has popped up in Railroad.  The only Hornby 67 is TfW, that was announced last year.

The only facility that tools it flat out on TfW production?  Or the end of the road for the 67?

THe Lima one seems to also be in the Red Rover train set. Given that the DB Cargo red 67's did not sell and neither did the Belmond 67 train pack I would assume they don't see the detailed 67 as a big seller. I have a large fleet of 67's as I like them but I think most D&E modellers will be "67'd out" as they are not a large class and are not seen very often on the real railway except in very specific circumstances. I wonder how many TfW 67 pre-orders they had, not helped by the very unexciting livery.

 

However I would suggest another missed opportunity in that IIRC 67010 in DBC red had no logos on it, and is perfect for easy reliverying with transfers into 67010/67013/67015/67028 etc (and several of those have 2+ variations of the red livery). Instead they did 67013 that requires removing the DB logo from the middle of the ribbed body sidesAt £99 from Kernow though it is a good way of expanding the fleet

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, ruggedpeak said:

Belmond 67 train pack

 

I think part of the issue there is that they did 1 loco with 3 coaches, the other loco but no more coaches. I think it is fair to say that 3 coaches is neither here nor there in terms of making a train up. I had to get coaches from the Orient Express pack (Minerva, Ibis and Cygnus) as these are names on Belmond coaches (not sure they are the same coaches though). I keep flirting with the idea of getting the standalone loco to run it double ended but other stuff keeps coming up that I'd rather have.

Edited January 12, 2022 by TomScrut

[rob D2]

55 minutes ago, Class 158 productions said:

It was odd, I’d thought they’d do a load of full fat royal ones. Still a good tooling and a model Hornby have monopoly over. Maybe they heard another manufacturer planning and decided to put out the cheap one, as a warning? Conspiracy theories

A couple of years back full fat royal ones didn't sell and hattons were chucking em out for £75 - so they won't do em again in a hurry .

 

And as has been said in a few places the current DB and belmont ones are still knocking about - they won't produce any more of a type seen as a poor seller .

 

Is there a description of this tier thing anywhere ? i don't get how a multi million pound dealer like hattons isn't in the top 

 

 

[Markwj]

The cynic in me was wondering who else is working on the class 110 for Hornby to drag out that old tooling and also why no class 142's following the realtrack announcement but to be fair as well they have generated a bit of interest due to their withdrawal and retirement to some other uses.

 

 

[Pmorgancym]

1 hour ago, ruggedpeak said:

THe Lima one seems to also be in the Red Rover train set. Given that the DB Cargo red 67's did not sell and neither did the Belmond 67 train pack I would assume they don't see the detailed 67 as a big seller. I have a large fleet of 67's as I like them but I think most D&E modellers will be "67'd out" as they are not a large class and are not seen very often on the real railway except in very specific circumstances. I wonder how many TfW 67 pre-orders they had, not helped by the very unexciting livery.

 

However I would suggest another missed opportunity in that IIRC 67010 in DBC red had no logos on it, and is perfect for easy reliverying with transfers into 67010/67013/67015/67028 etc (and several of those have 2+ variations of the red livery). Instead they did 67013 that requires removing the DB logo from the middle of the ribbed body sidesAt £99 from Kernow though it is a good way of expanding the fleet

Here's hoping TfW isn't popular In quite fancy one, but not at over 150quid.  Actually surprised theirs no train pack 2 mk4s and a dvt or 67 mk4 and dvt 

[Global]

48 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

A couple of years back full fat royal ones didn't sell and hattons were chucking em out for £75 - so they won't do em again in a hurry .

 

And as has been said in a few places the current DB and belmont ones are still knocking about - they won't produce any more of a type seen as a poor seller .

 

Is there a description of this tier thing anywhere ? i don't get how a multi million pound dealer like hattons isn't in the top 

 

 

Didn’t they mess the livery up on at least one of the Royal 67s?! I remember buying one early on, but seem to recall comments about the roof being wrong colour so that may have put some off and I sold mine on! 

[Coryton]

33 minutes ago, Markwj said:

The cynic in me was wondering who else is working on the class 110 for Hornby to drag out that old tooling and also why no class 142's following the realtrack announcement but to be fair as well they have generated a bit of interest due to their withdrawal and retirement to some other uses.

 

Perhaps Hornby think their 142 is too embarassing. Though the most recent models with well applied livery didn't look that bad to me.

 

8 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

Well, their competitors on the other side of the Pennines have already given Hornby a two fingered salute (I do wonder if that was partly down to "Terriergate" and then the Rocket open third farrago), and Bachmann's somewhat antsy cutting of ties with Hatton's doesn't seem to have affected them much, so perhaps it might not be a bad idea.  If two box shifters told Hornby to go away in a reproductive fashion, perhaps they might learn a bit of humility.

I suspect though Hatton's and Rails will be selling unicorn dung to gardeners before Hornby stops being so penile.

 

Or perhaps from Hornby's point of view they don't have much to lose if people buying over the internet just come to them direct rather than via the likes of Hattons and Rails? 

 

58 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Is there a description of this tier thing anywhere ? i don't get how a multi million pound dealer like hattons isn't in the top 

 

There is, though I forget where I saw it, but the whole point seems to be not to base it on how much a shop can sell, but how they do it. It seems to be extension of their policy to favour "bricks and mortar" shops - tier 1 was described as something like shops that carry a wide range of Hornby brands, offer support to customers and look reasonably tidy when you walk in. I think tier 3 was reserved - among other things - for companies with the temerity to "manufacture" their own products which compete with Hornby's. I'm not sure that's a particularly unreasonable approach to take.

[Hal Nail]

14 hours ago, andyman7 said:

 literally six weeks after release at £165 or so, the Blue Grey VEP being on sale for £99 at one retailer. Given how scarce that version is now (£300+) 

I agree with what you are saying overall. As a side issue this comment made me think.

 

I've always found it daft that something that really struggles to sell, often (but not always) after being panned, can suddenly be in so much demand a while later. Several Heljan O gauge items have gone through the same massive discount / huge premium cycle. all wagons, Hymek, Class 60 etc. 

 

Just today I was on a thread where someone had just bought a loco about 5 years after it came out and raising exactly the same stuff that got discussed at length at the time so had clearly completely missed it. It dawned on me you only need a handful of people wanting one some time later, possibly oblivious to any issues and eBay prices can rocket - but that may give a false impression of the wider demand.    

Edited January 12, 2022 by Hal Nail

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

Heres Hornbys description of the tier system on key model world

https://www.keymodelworld.com/article/Hornby-introduces-retailer-tier-system

its causing some tears with the Drax wagons,perhaps they spelt it incorrect.

Edited January 12, 2022 by ERIC ALLTORQUE

[scouse889]

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

A couple of years back full fat royal ones didn't sell and hattons were chucking em out for £75 - so they won't do em again in a hurry .

 

And as has been said in a few places the current DB and belmont ones are still knocking about - they won't produce any more of a type seen as a poor seller .

 

The main thing that puts me off the Belmond train pack is the fact you can't get any more matching coaches to go with it. I never really understand the 'train pack' approach where no additional vehicles are available separately to extend the train. I'd potentially be interested in the Belmond one if some extra coaches were made available separately, but as it currently stands coupled with the (let's face it) very high prices of models these days, these are way down my list. I didn't get why they produced a separate loco either - where exactly was the demand for this loco supposed to come from? OK, fair enough, run it light engine or on some duty other than the Belmond, but how many modellers are going to be sitting at home thinking "Do you know what my layout really needs, one of those Belmond 67s hauling a couple of silver bullets - I'll put it right at the top of my wishlist for next year."

Same could be said for the Royal 67 - no coaches available at the time to make a complete train, I think the Queen's Saloon and Duke's Saloon (R4400/R4401) were released around the same time as 67006 but, again, it's not even remotely close to allowing a decent (truncated) representation of the train to be assembled. I bought some of the EWS 67s from Hattons when they were chucking them out (and very pleased I was too) but left the Royal 67 for these reasons...

[scouse889]

56 minutes ago, Global said:

Didn’t they mess the livery up on at least one of the Royal 67s?! I remember buying one early on, but seem to recall comments about the roof being wrong colour so that may have put some off and I sold mine on! 

 

To my knowledge they have done both dedicated Royal 67s only once - but 67005 was the ex-Lima model and 67006 was the de novo SD model. Don't know if they were decorated differently though.