How far north did class 45's venture?

[TravisM]

I know that Class 45's got as far north as Glasgow and Edinburgh, but did they venture even further north to such exotic places as Perth, Dundee, Aberdeen or even Inverness on a regular basis?  The only pictures I seem to find of a type 4, are Class 40's and 47's; so with the Class 45's having a similar wheel base as Class 40's, I assume that their RA would be the same but traction knowledge might be a different matter.

[BR traction instructor]

Glasgow central for west/central Scotland until barred due to derailments on tight crossovers.

 

Aberdeen on the East coast occasionally with Freightliner workings, or cement from Oxwellmains…I have a picture on file of one passing Markinch with empty PCA/PCVs on such a turn…45003 in March 1980.

 

45012 approaching the Forth bridge from the north with empty MGR hoppers in the late 70s is another.

 

LPG tanks from (Herbrandston) to Sighthill was another way of reaching Edinburgh for 45/46s.

 

I have a B&W image of a 45 passing Stirling sbnd from Perth with parcels/newspaper vans on file too…I’ll have a shuftie. Found the pic…Photographer Les Riley, May 1975, 45104 on 5M20 Perth to Red Bank, Manchester.

 

BeRTIe

Edited January 6, 2022 by BR traction instructor

[forest2807]

I think I can recall seeing photos of Class 45's at Perth (I'm sure I'm not imagining it) but I am certain I have never seen or heard any evidence of one traversing the Highland line north of Perth to Inverness. As stated previously, they did venture up the East Coast to Aberdeen occasionally in later years.

[GordonC]

It must have happened from time to time, I'd suspect it would have been easier to have traction and route knowledge north of Edinburgh up the East Coast for them rather than north of Glasgow on the west. A few photos I found

 

Dundee

 

 

Glasgow Central

 

Leith

 

Craigentinney

 

Haymarket

 

 

 

[giz]

There a few pictures of Class 46s at Montrose on Edinburgh Aberdeens here:

 

https://www.derbysulzers.com/peakseverywhere.html

 

[TravisM]

3 hours ago, giz said:

There a few pictures of Class 46s at Montrose on Edinburgh Aberdeens here:

 

https://www.derbysulzers.com/peakseverywhere.html

 

It would seem that Class 46’s were more common than Class 45’s north of Perth, I’ve no idea why that would be.  It would seem that 45’s were cut off their cross country trains at Edinburgh Waverley, then given a quick refresh at Haymarket before heading back south.

[BR traction instructor]

Haymarket had 46s allocated…D153 from 1962, D147 was a Corkerhill loco in 1962, D170/176 were allocated to Haymarket in 1970/71. The short durations however would suggest crew training.

 

This would explain their more frequent appearances in Scotland.

 

BeRTIe

Edited January 7, 2022 by BR traction instructor

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Half the 46s had been at Gateshead since their inception, so very much at home on the ECML and further north across the border. The second post has a pic of a 45, but it looks more like a 46 to me.

[PerthBox]

5 hours ago, forest2807 said:

I think I can recall seeing photos of Class 45's at Perth (I'm sure I'm not imagining it) but I am certain I have never seen or heard any evidence of one traversing the Highland line north of Perth to Inverness. As stated previously, they did venture up the East Coast to Aberdeen occasionally in later years.

Perth men signed them in the 1960s and they were regulars on Perth shed until it closed in October '69. I am sure I've seen a black and white photo on Flickr of a class 46 at Inverness but, of course, I can't find it now.

Edited January 6, 2022 by PerthBox

[luckymucklebackit]

According to Derbysulzers.com they did make it as far as Perth around 1966, I have seen two photographs of peaks working out of Buchanan Street.

 

"Peaks continued to work out of Glasgow Buchanan Street, the 12.00 Dundee - Glasgow, 18.00 return and the 16.25 to Inverness (to Perth) were favourites with D89 noted on Feb 5th & 9th on the former two and D46 on the latter on 26th. Despite their presence in the Glasgow area the EE Type 4s were rare performers on the Dundee turns, Peak failures were normally covered by Class 5s, with the 20.00 hours from Dundee being a favourite for steam substitution. Another working to bring Peaks into the area was the 14.20 Waverley - Stirling, this was normally covered by a Gateshead Peak. A stranger on the daily Auchlochan colliery turn (formerly the Coalburn branch) was D40 on March 8th"

 

https://www.derbysulzers.com/66.html

 

Jim

 

[david12345]

On 09/01/2022 at 12:58, luckymucklebackit said:

According to Derbysulzers.com they did make it as far as Perth around 1966, I have seen two photographs of peaks working out of Buchanan Street.

 

"Peaks continued to work out of Glasgow Buchanan Street, the 12.00 Dundee - Glasgow, 18.00 return and the 16.25 to Inverness (to Perth) were favourites with D89 noted on Feb 5th & 9th on the former two and D46 on the latter on 26th. Despite their presence in the Glasgow area the EE Type 4s were rare performers on the Dundee turns, Peak failures were normally covered by Class 5s, with the 20.00 hours from Dundee being a favourite for steam substitution. Another working to bring Peaks into the area was the 14.20 Waverley - Stirling, this was normally covered by a Gateshead Peak. A stranger on the daily Auchlochan colliery turn (formerly the Coalburn branch) was D40 on March 8th"

 

https://www.derbysulzers.com/66.html

 

Jim

 

I've been working in Coalburn this week and been trying to catch glimpses of the old trackbed on the way to and from, the sight of a Peak  on those old embankments must have been something to behold !

[luckymucklebackit]

If you can get your hands on a copy of the Bradford and Barton book "Diesels on the Scottish Region" by S. Rickard there is an amazing photograph of an extremely dirty Peak D116(?) on page 44.  It is heading a short transfer freight consisting of a van, two tanks, two 16T mineral wagons and a brake van at Balornock Junction, and appears to be coming off the "switchback" line from Rutherglen.  It is also in this book that one of the Buchannan Street photos appears, with the peak just leaving the tunnel at what the locals called the "stinky ocean".  This was a particularly nasty area where all sorts of chemical wast was dumped from Tennants Chemical Works.  Despite a concrete cap being put in place in the 1970s the area still tends to have a unique odour!

 

Jim

[Shed Driver]

They were regular on  a passenger train ,early evening, passing south through Kirkcaldy in the early 70's.  I believe on an Aberdeen /York train? Obviously they also passed north bound.

This train was not usually double headed.  Also photo on what could be a fish train again heading south.  Both photos early 70,s.  Copyright N Blackburn

PS  I also have a photo of a Class 50 Heading north through Kirkcaldy.  

 Norman

[luckymucklebackit]

One I forgot to mention was they were regular performers on car/light truck trains to and from Bathgate, one working around 11am every morning going towards Glasgow through Coatdyke was one highlight of the day.  Only photographed the working once, by which time 40s and 47s were the mainstay.

 

Jim

[keefer]

Amazing pics @Shed Driver, always nice to see new Kirkcaldy pics especially if they're of rare workings/classes.

Thread about Kirkcaldy here:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61849-kirkcaldy-area/

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by keefer

[Shed Driver]

Hi keefer

Thanks for that link. I was not aware of that thread

 The Class 50 and BTH photos posted on 6 Dec 2012 are mine and must have been posted by Ian Addison from a disc that I gave him.  The working was on a day of industrial action so I have no idea  where it came from or was going.

 

Norman

[adb968008]

On 06/01/2022 at 13:00, BR traction instructor said:

 

 

I have a B&W image of a 45 passing Stirling sbnd from Perth with parcels/newspaper vans on file too…I’ll have a shuftie. Found the pic…Photographer Les Riley, May 1975, 45104 on 5M20 Perth to Red Bank, Manchester.

 

Perth to Redbank 5M20… thats a very long journey for an ECS.

 

I knew redbank swept up empty guvs from far and wide, but never knew it was that far !

 

I used to love watching the Redbank empties trundle through Bolton first thing in a morning, sometimes 16 GUVs and a single class 40. I never saw a 45 on it at Bolton coming from the North, and assume being 5Mxx this one would have come WCML not ECML to Manchester, where would the 45 have come off ?

Heaton to Redbank produced 45’s down the ECML, would it have gone that way ?

 

Thinking of it I never saw many 45’s at Preston either, summer saturdays usually, but not often ?

 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by adb968008

[ColinK]

Every time I saw the  Perth - Redbank it was a huge train usually 40 hauled.  One we always went out to photograph on the Settle Carlisle diversions.  Happy days.

[BR traction instructor]

I don’t have the WCML WTT for that year but would hazard a loco swap (to a 40) at Carlisle. 45 traction knowledge might have been an issue in the Preston area in 1975.

 

BeRTIe

[caradoc]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Perth to Redbank 5M20… thats a very long journey for an ECS.

 

This was returning the empty vans off newspaper trains, which, of course, is (or rather was) a one-way traffic !

 

[adb968008]

11 hours ago, caradoc said:

 

This was returning the empty vans off newspaper trains, which, of course, is (or rather was) a one-way traffic !

 

True, but were there no printing presses in Scotland ?

 

I used to love seeing the Newspaper activity around Manchester, and of course Mail, Parcels, Red Star etc… night railways were fascinating even in the 80’s/90’s…there was a lot more sleepers then too..

 

I always thought Manchesters catchment area only reached the borders, I didnt realise it went so far up.

[pH]

7 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

True, but were there no printing presses in Scotland ?

…

 

I always thought Manchesters catchment area only reached the borders, I didnt realise it went so far up.

Yes, but some (at least) newspapers supplied Scotland from England. From the 1970s, the Scottish edition of the Express was printed in Manchester. I don’t know how the papers got to Carlisle, but they were taken from there to Glasgow by van. I knew a guy who regularly drove that van - he had previously distributed papers in the west of Scotland from the Glasgow presses.

[caradoc]

11 hours ago, adb968008 said:

True, but were there no printing presses in Scotland ?

 

There were, for the 'local' papers such as the Daily Record and Glasgow Herald, but the national titles came from Manchester by train; The workings on Saturday nights were particularly complex, with, IIRC, two trains (1S03 and 1S04) which divided at Carstairs with multiple portions going forward, even including a single van to Kilmarnock. The newspaper trains were second in priority only to the Postals. 

 

 

[keefer]

To add to @caradoc's post:

Glasgow: Daily Record/Sunday Mail, Glasgow Herald/Evening Times (the local paper, the ET had about 6 editions per day!)

Edinburgh: The Scotsman

Dundee: Courier & Advertiser, Sunday Post plus a multitude of comics and magazines (D.C. Thomson, who also had offices and works in London)

Aberdeen: Press & Journal

 I suppose there actually would have been a relatively small traffic of the Scottish 'nationals' southwards to towns/cities/resorts, maybe could be handled in normal service BGs?

[pH]

1 hour ago, keefer said:

To add to @caradoc's post:

Glasgow: …

Edinburgh: …

Dundee: …

Aberdeen: …

 

 I suppose there actually would have been a relatively small traffic of the Scottish 'nationals' southwards to towns/cities/resorts, maybe could be handled in normal service BGs?

Add the Greenock Telegraph, a daily paper which was one of the first in Britain to switch to web offset printing.

 

Yes, there were some Scottish papers available in England. We used to get the Sunday Mail in a village near Long Eaton. I don’t know what else might have been available. I presume that would have come on the sleeper, which by then was Glasgow - Nottingham.