RMweb Premium Izzy Posted January 11, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2022 Sorry John, I saw your remark about trying servos in an earlier post and had been thinking about how you would fit them to work the tiebars, and especially as the track is on a viaduct with it would seem quite limited space. Working mostly in 2mm (so limited space) I have now in recent times after going around the houses with trials of servos mainly used a ‘hacked’ servo design. Although servos are of course R/C devices I found I just couldn’t get on with them in the manner most others use them, with electronic circuit boards etc. (as per Peco). Too complicated and expensive for my tastes besides the downsides I could not eliminate, constant ‘chatter’ and errant movement. Seen very mixed views on the Peco offering. So, ‘hacked’ is where all the electronics is stripped out and simple power supply and control is used. It’s cheap to do, is simple and reliable, works out around £6 per point, but needs a fair bit of DIY to achieve. Here is a link to a thread I have done regarding them. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112916-hacked-servo-point-control-wiring-dia-added/ However, as you haven’t gone down the servo route yet I must say that these motors might be a very good alternative. Just needs a simple power supply and a SPDT, there are built-in switches for frog polarity, and all the reports are positive. About the same footprint as my hacked servos. https://www.dcctrainautomation.co.uk/mp1-point-switch.html Not quite so cheap, but perhaps good value for a simple and reliable ‘fit & forget’ solution. This thread might prove of interest https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/169195-mtb-mp1-point-motor-query/#comment-4685837 Hope this is of use. Sorry it’s a bit long-winded. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 Thanks for the links, I think I am going to need Servos for dummies I assume with the Peco products you use the on board electronics to program the speed and length of throw ? By taking away the electronics you use switches to move the arm back and forth ? I have no issue as below the track bed, I have 65mm plus whatever distance the framing of the baseboard will be. The width I have is a minimum of 100mm wide, one tiebar is on a bridge section, I will use some form of angle crank to a servo about 50 mm away Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted January 11, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 hours ago, hayfield said: By taking away the electronics you use switches to move the arm back and forth ? Yes, the DPDT one on the servo mount serves the purposes of limit of travel combined with switching motor current and frog polarity. Micro ones from Expo Tools. You do need around 5v to power these. I use Vellmann K1823 power supply kits as 1amp is sufficient to operate two at once for such as a crossover and I take the feed off the DCC bus. 5v/1amp wall warts are easy to come by otherwise. Omega type linkages to the tiebars absorb any excess travel and give a firm seating to the blades against the stock rails. All very crude & simple construction. Bob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) I made a start with the kit bashing Out came the Stanley knife, the main part was shortened and cut to the desired angle, I built the bit left over. I now need to find my brick plasticard The angled warehouse will be at track level, in front of it will be some form of 2 story building I moved the bit left over to the other side just to see how well it framed the exit, This second shot may be better with it being a bit higher. As it is the start of the main warehouse (though in the map I think it was only the wagon lift which was on this level ) I might put a relief roof between the buildings just to hide the exit a bit more. Edited April 4, 2022 by hayfield 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 35 minutes ago, Izzy said: Yes, the DPDT one on the servo mount serves the purposes of limit of travel combined with switching motor current and frog polarity. Micro ones from Expo Tools. You do need around 5v to power these. I use Vellmann K1823 power supply kits as 1amp is sufficient to operate two at once for such as a crossover and I take the feed off the DCC bus. 5v/1amp wall warts are easy to come by otherwise. Omega type linkages to the tiebars absorb any excess travel and give a firm seating to the blades against the stock rails. All very crude & simple construction. Bob Bob I am slightly confused as to why the likes of Peco have gone the extra mile with this programmable thingy in their starter pack. Having said this I do like the idea it stops itself and you can program the speed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidparker172 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Great work so far! These building you have been using look great. Would you recommend them? How will you be finishing them as they are mdf? Thanks Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted January 11, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, hayfield said: Bob I am slightly confused as to why the likes of Peco have gone the extra mile with this programmable thingy in their starter pack. Having said this I do like the idea it stops itself and you can program the speed It's the standard way most servo control PCB's deliver control. Megapoints, MERG and so forth. You can also program signal 'bounce' into many. The Peco stuff is actually produced by ANE. The Peco is just re-badged AFAIK. An issue can be the high current draw at startup when more than a few servos are involved. On average they take 0.5amp each. Not really a problem with just the few you would need, (any signals involved?). But there can be the problem of the servos thrashing about at bootup. Not common but an aspect to be aware of as it can then wreck whatever they are connected to if they have been precisly set with no omega loop type over-run to absorb excess travel. There is a thread here somewhere on the Peco stuff, not complimentary. Many reasons why I went hacked servos and suggested the MTB's. A cheap way to try things out is to get a couple of servos along with a 'servo tester'. Available on ebay for a couple of pounds. Hook up a AA 4-pack and a single servo can be manually controlled. Will give you an idea of how they can be used. But as I said in my first post I would recommend using metal geared MG90 varients (smoke black cases) rather than plastic gear SG90's (light blue cases). Different construction quality all round. But I fear this is getting away from the main thrust of this thread and layout build, which continues to look even better with each posting. Bob Edited January 11, 2022 by Izzy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) On 11/01/2022 at 18:48, davidparker172 said: Great work so far! These building you have been using look great. Would you recommend them? How will you be finishing them as they are mdf? Thanks Dave These are scratch build aid kits from Fair Price Models and are in my opinion both well thought out kits and excellent value for money. The quality of the product will depend on how much detail is added by the builder There are other laser cut kits where brick and other details are cut into the surface, but again it will be as good as the standard of finish applied https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/fair-price-models Well worth a look What you have seen with what I have built so far is not even the full kit, these two other sheets can be used. I will use the windows and if I was using brick paper I would use the other strips for giving raised brick courses, however as I am using brick embossed plasticard the relief will be in plasticard Edited April 4, 2022 by hayfield 3 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 19 minutes ago, Izzy said: It's the standard way most servo control PCB's deliver control. Megapoints, MERG and so forth. You can also program signal 'bounce' into many. The Peco stuff is actually produced by ANE. The Peco is just re-badged AFAIK. An issue can be the high current draw at startup when more than a few servos are involved. On average they take 0.5amp each. Not really a problem with just the few you would need, (any signals involved?). A cheap way to try things out is to get a couple of servos along with a 'servo tester'. Available on ebay for a couple of pounds. Hook up a AA 4-pack and a single servo can be manually controlled. Will give you an idea of how they can be used. But as I said in my first post I would recommend using metal geared MG90 varients (smoke black cases) rather than plastic gear SG90's (light blue cases). Different construction quality all round. Bob Bob Thank you very much, this is a subject I have been shying away from. I need to get a proper grasp of. Thanks for the tip about using better quality servos I would love signals so I guess yes, as to what and how many I have no idea. This will be something that will evolve as I proceed with the project 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) Last nights work, a bit of try and see I decided to start gluing the brick embosses plasticard to the shell, again I used the Loctite 60 second glue which bonds plastic to MDF very well ( must buy another tube) and seems to be workable much longer than 60 seconds. The raised brickwork is standard Liquid Poly Two views of adding the pillar, side coverings and raised brick courses Windows cut out The larger facing was stuck on. I may use the laser cut card windowsills and the stone lintels as they are both the correct size and have a different texture to the plasticard Edited April 4, 2022 by hayfield 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) Finished cutting out the window apertures, as I said earlier the plan was to finished the brickwork,. Fit the lintels and windowsills from the kit (card) I then started making the windows and doors from the kit, these are held in place for now with masking tape This is the approximate position, along with another type of 2 story warehouse I ordered some slates and pavements. I am happy with the results so far Just to show both the doors and windows, Nice kits to work with, I just need to do them justice with painting and additional detailing Edited April 4, 2022 by hayfield 10 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Kevin Johnson Posted January 12, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 12, 2022 John you have done a lovely job cutting out and fitting the brickwork to the buildings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidparker172 Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 22 hours ago, hayfield said: These are scratch build aid kits from Fair Price Models and are in my opinion both well thought out kits and excellent value for money. The quality of the product will depend on how much detail is added by the builder There are other laser cut kits where brick and other details are cut into the surface, but again it will be as good as the standard of finish applied https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/fair-price-models Well worth a look What you have seen with what I have built so far is not even the full kit, these two other sheets can be used. I will use the windows and if I was using brick paper I would use the other strips for giving raised brick courses, however as I am using brick embossed plasticard the relief will be in plasticard Brilliant thankyou Am looking round to see whats available to compare to things like Metcalfe kits and Scalescenes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 3 hours ago, Kevin Johnson said: John you have done a lovely job cutting out and fitting the brickwork to the buildings. Kevin Thank you, but as all things I could have done slightly better. Many seem to get super results with brick paper and for Great Eastern flavour yellow brick would look good, as I have used plasticard mine will get washes of brick red, I will try acrylic for a change (from enamel) trying a bit of dry brushing and then weathering. These kits are really very good value, I chose using embossed brick simply so I could add Wills/Ratio detailing Recently I built an engine shed for my 0-16.5 locos from a Lcut kit, these are more detailed having brick and woodwork cut into the sheets, again for what you get they are super value, with the ply and MDF taking the acrylic paint ever so well I spend a lot of time building track so this is like a holiday for me. But I must get on with a couple of locos, so things will get a bit quiet 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 (edited) On 12/01/2022 at 19:01, davidparker172 said: Brilliant thankyou Am looking round to see whats available to compare to things like Metcalfe kits and Scalescenes Have a look at Lcut, as I said in the last reply I built a 7mm narrow gauge engine shed Still waiting for a decent bit of dry brushing some tones in and then weathering, these are complete kits, where as the Fair Price models scratch builder aits. but with plenty of added details. As I said well worth the money, firstly only having an inkjet printer the print your own kits use up the ink and I dont know how colour fast the inks are Edited April 4, 2022 by hayfield 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alant Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 23 hours ago, hayfield said: These are scratch build aid kits from Fair Price Models and are in my opinion both well thought out kits and excellent value for money. The quality of the product will depend on how much detail is added by the builder There are other laser cut kits where brick and other details are cut into the surface, but again it will be as good as the standard of finish applied https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/fair-price-models Well worth a look What you have seen with what I have built so far is not even the full kit, these two other sheets can be used. I will use the windows and if I was using brick paper I would use the other strips for giving raised brick courses, however as I am using brick embossed plasticard the relief will be in plasticard Thanks for posting this. I wasn't aware of their kits. I model in O Gauge and have had a look at their Ebay shop. Some potentially useful kits on there. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted January 12, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 12, 2022 On 11/01/2022 at 20:25, hayfield said: I would love signals so I guess yes, as to what and how many I have no idea. This will be something that will evolve as I proceed with the project Looking at that cover photo it looks like at the left hand edge there is a white post and ladder. Quite why a signal might be there, if that’s what it is, I can’t work out. I wonder if any other photos of the location exist. Bob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multigauge Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Loving the warehousing. Have you put the lintels on to the embossed plastic, or have you cut out and recessed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share Posted January 13, 2022 10 hours ago, Multigauge said: Loving the warehousing. Have you put the lintels on to the embossed plastic, or have you cut out and recessed? The lintels are card and like the sills are glued in place, they should really be made from thicker material, but they are far more accurate than any I could have cut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastworld Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 On 06/01/2022 at 19:12, Multigauge said: Great photo of the track work and nice to see examples of inset track without check rails; I hadn't bothered to add any to Sarf London sidings (I like the idea of building my own track, but I'm not convinced I have the ability/time/patience) but have often wondered if I really should've to be a bit more prototypical. Looking forward to seeing the rest of the build and in particular the buildings. I think the kits you have are a really good base and have you some on mine, although I am already thinking of rebuilding/bashing mine in to something more parochial. The cover photo of the book hints that the inset track continued over the viaduct - is that the case? Would there have been vehicular access across the viaduct? If that was the case I would think it would very unique. Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) On 12/01/2022 at 22:03, Izzy said: Looking at that cover photo it looks like at the left hand edge there is a white post and ladder. Quite why a signal might be there, if that’s what it is, I can’t work out. I wonder if any other photos of the location exist. Bob Bob I missed this one but yes it looks to be a signal at the start of the bridge On 13/01/2022 at 09:25, eastworld said: The cover photo of the book hints that the inset track continued over the viaduct - is that the case? Would there have been vehicular access across the viaduct? If that was the case I would think it would very unique. Stu Stu From where the loco is the inset groundwork stops and I assume its ballasted track. I doubt if any vehicle ever went up on to the track level, just hand carts and perhaps horses, though wagons may have been moved using powered capstans and ropes. The track actually went across Smithfield and on to St Katherine Docks, certainly not loco hauled. And why it never terminated closer to the docks is a mystery to me Any information would be very interesting, sadly whilst all I have done is Googled, I cannot find any other photos or plans Edited April 4, 2022 by hayfield Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share Posted January 13, 2022 I have been looking at some 3D printed bodies from CDC Models, they have good feedback and the photos of the models look good. I ordered a GER E22 loco (LNER Holden J65), it states its designed to fit a Dapol/Hornby Terrier chassis. Well as I model in EM gauge this chassis is no good for me, but I do have a Branchlines Terrier Chassis which stated suitable for Dapol or K's bodies. I do have plenty of Romford 16mm wheels and some tiny Mashima and Tenshido motors, I have two High Level Road Runner (normal & +) gearboxes on order, but I may need to order a smaller one I have been thinking about these models for some time, there is a Wills J69 with added scratch built side panels going cheap but it looks a bit odd with the sides just stuck to the side tanks, plus its a lot of work, anyway I had an unexpected gift so I have used it to buy the loco I have a friend who models the SECR I can see him wanting the R class they priduce 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) For a complete change I decided to make a start on a chassis for the E22 The main parts were removed from the fret and tidies up I was luck to but this chassis jig at a super price second hand. Simply the jig is set up using the coupling rods as the datum, next the axle bearings are fitted to the mainframes. Then the jig is used to assemble the chassis together. This method ensures te bearing are matched to the coupling rods, then the chassis is assembled so that all axles are suuare with each other I now have a free running chassis which now needs to be matched to the body before I can proceed with fitting the brake gear and motor Edited April 4, 2022 by hayfield 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) Back to the layout The second 3 story warehouse needs shortening, so I decided to the end which will not be needed and add it to the existing off cut from the first build I need to think through this area a bit more, I don't think I will be able to get the inset tracks into the scene Looking at the map I might be able to get the inset track on the lower level under the tracks. Also change some of the windows in the single story warehouse to loading bays. I could even splice the 2 story warehouse into the single story building. I think I also need to start building the bridge (bottom left as this and the viaduct walls are the datum for the height of the track bed Edited April 4, 2022 by hayfield 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share Posted January 15, 2022 (edited) T I made a start on the second 3 story building last night, this will have to be more of a 3D building as its a few inches from the backscene The right hand end is cut on an angle to mimic its position against the back and side of the scene In its position The rear right hand building had a few more bits added, the single story building will be cut to length flush with the rear story building behind it and two of the windows will be enlarged to make loading bays. Before I do anything with the two story building will need to do the road bridge plus it needs to be a bit more 3D We don't seem to have had a postal delivery for a few days and some of the parts I have ordered have not been despatched yet which is a bit frustrating Edited April 4, 2022 by hayfield 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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