Hornby 2022 - Coaching stock

[OOLiveSteam]

Coronation set. FANTASTIC. Can't wait to see them behind Mallard at the OO Live Steam Roadshow.

[davidw]

2 minutes ago, mckinneyc said:

Been reading up on The Coronation, luckily you don't need an A4 to haul it, A1s, A3s and even an N2 all covered for failures as did non Coronation themed A4s.

 

I personally hope that their development will lead to BR liveried ones too and the rebuilt beaver tail as they have a broader use and geographical range.

 

I'm not sure if The West Riding service used the same formation as The Coronation, if so then there's further mileage out of the tooling.

 

I did read externally the carriages were similar to The Silver Jubilee but that the composition was different to the other streamliners so unsure if the tooling can be used for it.

For the west riding in the BR period, some coaches were retained in the West riding service. I believe that others like the twin FO were used in the Talisman. 

 

Happy to be corrected.

[G-BOAF]

Is the Observation Car 1719 or 1729 (the later the newly restored one at Margate). @AY Mod's release day post of Hornby material states 1729 but retailers are saying 1719.

 

Persoanlly would prefer the preserved vehicle.... 

Is there any firm knowledge on which one Hornby are producing in the first batch?

[mckinneyc]

I do believe a pair of streamlined carriages made their way to Scotland in BR days and had a carriage, maybe a Thompson, inserted between them. From what I recall of the photo I saw the neat little train was hauled by a Scottish D11.

 

Hopefully if these sell well Hornby may look at The Silver Jubilee stock and perhaps modify the tooling for BR days.

 

*Just looked, the Fife Coast Express was made up using Silver Jubilee stock. Also discovered that some carriages lasted until 1964 at least

Edited January 11, 2022 by mckinneyc

[Jammy2305]

In 1949 the two Third Open/Brake Third twins (1717/1718 & 1727/1728) were allocated to alternating sets that ran between York, Lowestoft and Yarmouth on the GE section, still carrying the two tone blue livery and even LNER lettering, but by this point having the 'Coronation' lettering and underframe skirts removed.

[Mallard60022]

On 10/01/2022 at 17:35, Chuffed 1 said:

The one coach that I want - the rebuilt Maunsell composite dining saloon is a) in Southern branding, which it probably only carried for eighteen months, being rebuilt in 1947, and b) is numbered 7844 - withdrawn in 1954 due to accident damage, so I can’t just rub off the southern!

For some reason Hornby seem to have a habit of producing stock with a limited livery life - H class 31265 and Lord Rodney spring to mind.  Still, most people aren’t as obsessive about date verisimilitude as me!

Chuffed, isn't the B & C version different? Or did you want a green BR SR one like me?

Phil

[PaulG]

I'm intrigued by the Colchester Signalling Engineers carriages, especially as I'm building a model of Colchester c1955! The models are generic, nothing like a GER vehicle, but why Colchester, any photo evidence similar vehicles existed?

 

My photo shows LNER Diagram 65 Gresley Brake Third E86072 built York 1926, converted to Push-Pull use in September 1949 and then to Signalling Works Engineer Colchester works Mess & Tool Van DE320759 in December 1959. Now preserved at Bere Ferrers, Devon.

 

 

I've quickly checked Hugh Longworth British Railways Pre-Nationalisation Coaching Stock and can't see the Hornby carriage or the running number they quote, so I'd like to know where they got the information?

[Mallard60022]

5 minutes ago, PaulG said:

I'm intrigued by the Colchester Signalling Engineers carriages, especially as I'm building a model of Colchester c1955! The models are generic, nothing like a GER vehicle, but why Colchester, any photo evidence similar vehicles existed?

 

My photo shows LNER Diagram 65 Gresley Brake Third E86072 built York 1926, converted to Push-Pull use in September 1949 and then to Signalling Works Engineer Colchester works Mess & Tool Van DE320759 in December 1959. Now preserved at Bere Ferrers, Devon.

 

 

I've quickly checked Hugh Longworth British Railways Pre-Nationalisation Coaching Stock and can't see the Hornby carriage or the running number they quote, so I'd like to know where they got the information?

Karen in FB probably.

[micklner]

5 minutes ago, PaulG said:

I'm intrigued by the Colchester Signalling Engineers carriages, especially as I'm building a model of Colchester c1955! The models are generic, nothing like a GER vehicle, but why Colchester, any photo evidence similar vehicles existed?

 

My photo shows LNER Diagram 65 Gresley Brake Third E86072 built York 1926, converted to Push-Pull use in September 1949 and then to Signalling Works Engineer Colchester works Mess & Tool Van DE320759 in December 1959. Now preserved at Bere Ferrers, Devon.

 

 

I've quickly checked Hugh Longworth British Railways Pre-Nationalisation Coaching Stock and can't see the Hornby carriage or the running number they quote, so I'd like to know where they got the information?

Probably Cloud Cuckoo land , it matches the Coach , generic if thats the probable source !!

[Chris116]

I would suspect that the Blue Grey six wheel generator coach is another figment of someone's imagination but I have not done much searching into the subject.

 

EDIT:- Below is a photo that proves that the Blue Grey actually existed. Now the question has to be are Hornby going to produce the cinema coach to go with the six wheeler?

Edited January 12, 2022 by Chris116
Photo proves I was wrong.

[Coryton]

Just now, Chris116 said:

I would suspect that the Blue Grey six wheel generator coach is another figment of someone's imagination but I have not done much searching into the subject.

 

It seems to be based (a bit loosely, given what they had to work with) on something real - quite a few photos on the internet if you search for DE320104E, e,g:

https://twitter.com/adipullenLNER/status/1480592339311677441

 

It looks as if it ran with a cinema coach.

 

I rather like the idea of a 6 wheel coach in blue and grey.

[kiltedsignaller]

Sorry to see no SC280M yet, as the tooling is almost all there. Never mind; I shall keep hoping...

[GreenGiraffe22]

On 10/01/2022 at 17:35, Chuffed 1 said:

The one coach that I want - the rebuilt Maunsell composite dining saloon is a) in Southern branding, which it probably only carried for eighteen months, being rebuilt in 1947, and b) is numbered 7844 - withdrawn in 1954 due to accident damage, so I can’t just rub off the southern!

For some reason Hornby seem to have a habit of producing stock with a limited livery life - H class 31265 and Lord Rodney spring to mind.  Still, most people aren’t as obsessive about date verisimilitude as me!

 

That carriage caught my eye too. 

 

According to Graham Muz:

 

"R40221 SR, Maunsell Dining Saloon Third [sic] (actually a Composite Dining Saloon), 7844 to Diagram 2658 in SR green as approximately between July 1947 and mid 1949."

 

https://southern-railway.com/2022/01/10/Hornby-announce-their-2022-range-new-liveries-for-sr-brs-items/?amp

[Chuffed 1]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

Chuffed, isn't the B & C version different? Or did you want a green BR SR one like me?

Phil

Like you Phil, I wanted a green one (early sixties) and could have removed the southern but thinking about it, I’d have had to remove the rest as well ( wrong lettering, number in wrong place).

 

[ColHut]

So we will actually get proper articulated coaches for the Coronation.  Three bogies per pair of coaches?

 

regards

[G-BOAF]

4 minutes ago, ColHut said:

So we will actually get proper articulated coaches for the Coronation.  Three bogies per pair of coaches?

 

regards

Given it is a main range model at a premium price, I don't see why it wouldn't!

If Hornby have managed tilting articulation on the APT (and before that, at a simpler level, Eurostar), the Gresleys should be easy

Edited January 12, 2022 by G-BOAF

[Tony Wright]

15 hours ago, mckinneyc said:

I do believe a pair of streamlined carriages made their way to Scotland in BR days and had a carriage, maybe a Thompson, inserted between them. From what I recall of the photo I saw the neat little train was hauled by a Scottish D11.

 

Hopefully if these sell well Hornby may look at The Silver Jubilee stock and perhaps modify the tooling for BR days.

 

*Just looked, the Fife Coast Express was made up using Silver Jubilee stock. Also discovered that some carriages lasted until 1964 at least

Good morning,

 

As well as the Fife Coast Express (which, as you say, used the ex-Silver Jubilee stock, with the exception of the triplet diner), at least one pair of ex-Coronation/West Riding BSO/RSO cars was used in the Aberdonian, between Aberdeen and Edinburgh (as the leading carriages in the Up train). 

 

I'm sure the Coronation set will sell well, though there was little commonality between it and the Silver Jubilee cars; the Coronation and the West Riding sets were identical (other than the Observation Car in the former), as was the spare set. 

 

The problem with (potentially) representing these magnificent vehicles in BR days is the number of variations one ends up with - skirtings removed, solebar coverings removed (or not), extra doors fitted at the inner ends (though not on all cars) and roller bearings on some of the bogies. It would require much re-tooling on Hornby's part to produce them in (later) BR condition. That said, though they never ran again as complete streamlined trains post-War, they did appear in such named trains as the (post-War) West Riding, The Talisman(s), The Master Cutler and the South Yorkshireman, as well as in general service trains (as did the Silver Jubilee stock when not in the FCE).  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[mckinneyc]

Thanks for the clarification Tony!

 

I hadn't realised many modifications were made to the stock other than the skirtings being removed, well one can dream we'll get BR era streamlined stock too

[Bucoops]

18 minutes ago, mckinneyc said:

Thanks for the clarification Tony!

 

I hadn't realised many modifications were made to the stock other than the skirtings being removed, well one can dream we'll get BR era streamlined stock too

 

The doors were added following a fire to allow easier escape.

[4firstimes]

I wonder if Hornby have missed out on a trick with the LNER Coronation Beavertail coach. I know that during the presentation reference was made to give Hornby ideas for models , but the Beavertail observation Coaches especially Number E1729E spent a period of time in Maroon livery on the West Highland Line , originally in Custard and Cream and later in Maroon around 1957/8 . The only variation between the original build  on the Coronation Train was the cutting down of the lower valences on the coach sides. A further variation being the rebuilding after this period . Off the record with the introduction of sophisticated smoke system on DCC models I wonder if this can be miniturised for use with the J36 then “Mauds” 5407 reputation of destroying the West Highlands Timetable 28th May 1984 in which acres of heather along the route went up in smoke courtesy of Maud. 

[Flittersnoop]

Not sure what Hornby's business model is. I tried ordering the Coronation coaches from my local model shop - already sold out. I guessed that Hornby want us to buy direct from them, so went to their online shop - R40227 Observation Car "unavailable" - already sold out?

 

We've gone from being able to save up for models to having to buy them as soon as they hit the shelves, in case they sell out, to pre-ordering. Now even pre-ordering months/years before the models are manufactured isn't enough. What next - go to a medium to try to ascertain what Hornby might make, and order on the basis of messages from the spirit world?

 

This isn't the way a business with a healthy future operates.

 

 

[Chris116]

Trouble is that if everything thing sells out then management can tell the shareholders that they produced the right amount as there is none left in their wearhouse! The fact they could have sold more of a lot of things and they have seriously upset a lot of their customers (both trade and modellers/collectors) will be brushed under the carpet if management can and the shareholders are not paying attention.

[InterCity80s]

50 minutes ago, Flittersnoop said:

Not sure what Hornby's business model is. I tried ordering the Coronation coaches from my local model shop - already sold out. I guessed that Hornby want us to buy direct from them, so went to their online shop - R40227 Observation Car "unavailable" - already sold out?

I wouldn't necessarily worry too much about that. At various times over the past couple of years, various APT sets and the Class 91s have shown on Hornby's website as "unavailable" only to go back to having the pre-order button again.

 

Not sure if it was just gremlins on their website or whether they decided to manufacture additional stock?

 

Can't guarantee it'll happen with the Observation Car but it would be worth checking in periodically.

[Legend]

1 hour ago, Flittersnoop said:

Not sure what Hornby's business model is. I tried ordering the Coronation coaches from my local model shop - already sold out. I guessed that Hornby want us to buy direct from them, so went to their online shop - R40227 Observation Car "unavailable" - already sold out?

 

We've gone from being able to save up for models to having to buy them as soon as they hit the shelves, in case they sell out, to pre-ordering. Now even pre-ordering months/years before the models are manufactured isn't enough. What next - go to a medium to try to ascertain what Hornby might make, and order on the basis of messages from the spirit world?

 

This isn't the way a business with a healthy future operates.

 

 

Yup . One of my nice to haves was the Coronation . Looked at TMC , who I believe is Tier 1  and all sold out Checked Hornby direct , the Observation car not available but other twin units are . On the day the catalogue came out …..what a joke !  I thought this was a company that needed to sell stuff . They seem to be making it hard .  Not bothered , maybe I’ll wait for next years release or just not bother at all 

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Flittersnoop said:

Not sure what Hornby's business model is. I tried ordering the Coronation coaches from my local model shop - already sold out. I guessed that Hornby want us to buy direct from them, so went to their online shop - R40227 Observation Car "unavailable" - already sold out?

 

We've gone from being able to save up for models to having to buy them as soon as they hit the shelves, in case they sell out, to pre-ordering. Now even pre-ordering months/years before the models are manufactured isn't enough. What next - go to a medium to try to ascertain what Hornby might make, and order on the basis of messages from the spirit world?

 

This isn't the way a business with a healthy future operates.

 

 

 

I had that last year with the Coronation Scot.

 

When they arrived I got them all for well below RRP as nearly everyone had them. I wouldn't panic yet.

 

 

Jason