Hornby 2022 - Trains on Film

[AY Mod]

[brianthesnail96]

Well that's not how to make friends is it!

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, brianthesnail96 said:

Well that's not how to make friends is it!

 

The other page to look at is https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/169526-a-statement-on-the-titfield-thunderbolt/

 

[Zunnan]

I wonder if Studio Canal will have something to say about their IP being used in this manner given they have contracted the IP elsewhere.

[The Stationmaster]

More originality from Hornby - looks like the latest announcement from 'copycats r us.  Yet again (see 'wagons' the only bit of originality they can come up with is something from way back in the 19th century although even that I do wonder if that coaching stock was still running in that sort of condition at the time of the Crimean War?

[Bucoops]

A phrase comes to mind - if you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything.

 

Hopefully that says enough about my thoughts...

[Vanguard 5374]

I’ve got to say going by RRP and the Hornby name, if they have legally got around this by doing a “inspired by” range, money will talk. The RRP is lower than the competition and of course joe public will know of Hornby but have no idea who Rapido are. Will be interesting to see how both compare but o can’t see Hornby doing something like this without getting their legal team involved first.

[Fireline]

4 minutes ago, Vanguard 5374 said:

....can’t see Hornby doing something like this without getting their legal team involved first.

 

You sure? Might be worth asking Red Bull.....

[jonnyuk]

take off the lets hate on Hornby hat for a minute.  They have actually created a new line of products here, this can be expanded to include allot of things in the future. I actually things it's a very good idea. love the packaging. If you look at the railway children loco that has the studio canal logo so i assume its officially licenced, surely SC know about this already. If you want official merch then you know where to go and get it.

[Zunnan]

18 minutes ago, Vanguard 5374 said:

I’ve got to say going by RRP and the Hornby name, if they have legally got around this by doing a “inspired by” range, money will talk. The RRP is lower than the competition and of course joe public will know of Hornby but have no idea who Rapido are. Will be interesting to see how both compare but o can’t see Hornby doing something like this without getting their legal team involved first.

 

It depends on how aggressive the IP holder wants to be with it. There is already precedent set in this sort of thing with property being seized for imitating film IP. It doesn't matter that the box includes 'inspired by', it specifically mentions 'Titfield Thunderbolt'. Then there is locomotive livery and name, loriot and Dans house, presumably the specific livery and number details on the Toad van and also bus livery and destination. All of those are IP belonging to Studio Canal. The big question now is whether the IP holder sees Hornby as a positive influence on their IP and come to a private agreement or whether they enforce the contract they have with another manufacturer for this specific set of movie items and treat it as IP theft. If other similar instances are to go by, not much detail will come out either way.

 

Another way to look at it is that the other party has a contract of exclusive access to the IP for a period of time. If Studio Canal has given Hornby permission within that time frame, then the IP holder could be found in breach of contract themselves.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Zunnan

[jonnyuk]

2 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

I take the exact opposite view.  I think we as a hobby need Hornby to be strong and if these sales help Hornby then I think that's great. The new niche manufacturers may be good for the established modelling community, but Hornby is our hobby's flag-bearer with the general public and we need it to succeed and be strong.

 

I don't model British, but I'm tempted to buy some of these just to support Hornby.

100%, i've said it before, all these new comers make great models but they cherry pick, they don't produce anything for the trains to run on, nor anything to control the trains, nor the scenery to make a layout etc etc. they rely Hornby/Peco/Bachmann to do the boring stuff but essential stuff

[Din]

21 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

More originality from Hornby - looks like the latest announcement from 'copycats r us.  Yet again (see 'wagons' the only bit of originality they can come up with is something from way back in the 19th century although even that I do wonder if that coaching stock was still running in that sort of condition at the time of the Crimean War?

 

No, but it's the train used in the film. So while it likely isn't, but is what was on screen.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Vanguard 5374 said:

I’ve got to say going by RRP and the Hornby name, if they have legally got around this by doing a “inspired by” range, money will talk. The RRP is lower than the competition and of course joe public will know of Hornby but have no idea who Rapido are. Will be interesting to see how both compare but o can’t see Hornby doing something like this without getting their legal team involved first.

 

The fact they tried the weak excuse of "These things actually exist so its fair game" says all that they hope will wash legally. Mostly because stuff like the OB Bus does exist and is wandering about as we speak, apparently owned by a company called Lodges and loaned/rented out accordingly. Same with Lion, same with the flatwagon, toad and the coach body. "They all exist so we can model them, HAH!" seems to be the thinking behind Koheler's folly.

 

It's going to be expensive. Or we'll get a hilarious farce of Hornby being able to issue everything bar Dan's House or something under a different name.

[Helmdon]

3 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

I take the exact opposite view.  I think we as a hobby need Hornby to be strong and if these sales help Hornby then I think that's great. The new niche manufacturers may be good for the established modelling community, but Hornby is our hobby's flag-bearer with the general public and we need it to succeed and be strong.

 

I don't model British, but I'm tempted to buy some of these just to support Hornby.

 

that's a dark road to go down...

 

[GWR-fan]

Years ago my ex-brother-in-law acquired the sole salvage rights to a freighter which sunk off Fraser Island in Queensland.  At the time of the sinking the ballast carried by the freighter was worthless but it seems over time it became extremely valuable.  Now my brother-in-law was a one man operation so when he turned up at the wreck site he was surprised to see a major recovery effort being undertaken on his "property".  It seems that a large company flushed with lawyers and big money decided that salvage rights or not they were going to work the site.  My brother in law barely had enough money to live on and regardless of law on his side it was pointless seeking legal action against the company.

 

Similarly,  does Rapido have the will to fight this through the court?  I am sure that Hornby would have run their "Trains on Film" proposal through their legal department before making any announcements or do they really believe that they were untouchable.  Look to the very smug Mr. Kohler,  he looks very confident.  Hornby could very well lose some friends over this act of bastardry.

[On30runner]

Rapido have made a statement which can be seen here. They and the IP aren't happy. 

 

https://youtu.be/ii0TaKq3mqg

[On30runner]

3 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

Years ago my ex-brother-in-law acquired the sole salvage rights to a freighter which sunk off Fraser Island in Queensland.  At the time of the sinking the ballast carried by the freighter was worthless but it seems over time it became extremely valuable.  Now my brother-in-law was a one man operation so when he turned up at the wreck site he was surprised to see a major recovery effort being undertaken on his "property".  It seems that a large company flushed with lawyers and big money decided that salvage rights or not they were going to work the site.  My brother in law barely had enough money to live on and regardless of law on his side it was pointless seeking legal action against the company.

 

Similarly,  does Rapido have the will to fight this through the court?  I am sure that Hornby would have run their "Trains on Film" proposal through their legal department before making any announcements or do they really believe that they were untouchable.  Look to the very smug Mr. Kohler,  he looks very confident.  Hornby could very well lose some friends over this act of bastardry.

Studio Canals coffers will be quite a bit deeper 

[Oldddudders]

13 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

100%, i've said it before, all these new comers make great models but they cherry pick, they don't produce anything for the trains to run on, nor anything to control the trains, nor the scenery to make a layout etc etc. they rely Hornby/Peco/Bachmann to do the boring stuff but essential stuff

Fair enough as far as I am concerned. I don't buy Hornby or Bachmann except for trains, and Peco, by and large, sells much more track than any other class of product, and their track is good enough for me. I haven't used a Hornby etc power control system in 60 years - Digitrax for the last 20+. Niche manufacturers are galvanising our hobby, putting the big players on their mettle, and that is a Good Thing. 

[Legend]

Dont get the railway connection in  Lady with the lamp . I've probably seen it but cant remember . Was Florence Nightingale a closet trainspotter ? What have I missed ?

 

You know if Hornby had simply developed Lion and sold it with a set of coaches  I think they would be just as successful and they would get plaudits  .  I appreciate Titfield would have added a few more sales , but face it , they lost out to Rapido. If you snooze you lose and SK lost this one . Appears he doesnt want to let go .  I dont think Richard Lines would be impressed .

 

Maybe Studiocanal not that bothered . its additional publicity after all and its only model trains .   Rapido , would they go to court .................it all costs money.  Maybe thats what Hornby gambling on ?  But it all seems so unnecessary 

 

[Din]

8 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

Similarly,  does Rapido have the will to fight this through the court?  I am sure that Hornby would have run their "Trains on Film" proposal through their legal department before making any announcements or do they really believe that they were untouchable.  Look to the very smug Mr. Kohler,  he looks very confident.  Hornby could very well lose some friends over this act of bastardry.

 

Well, let's see, Studio Canal had an income last year of 360 million euros (£300 million in a pandemic). Oh yeah, they're also owned by Vivendi.

 

Ya know, the people that have taken Google to court twice and won.

[Miss Prism]

21 minutes ago, Zunnan said:

presumably the specific livery and number details on the Toad van

 

The Toad in Titfield Thunderbolt is 68740, a late diagram AA20. Rapido is doing this.

 

The Toad in Hornby's new train pack, also numbered 68740 I believe (no, I'm not going to wade through the video again), is a rehash of their interpretation of its AA19, which has not been available for some time.
 

[Gordon Connell]

11 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

Similarly,  does Rapido have the will to fight this through the court?  I am sure that Hornby would have run their "Trains on Film" proposal through their legal department before making any announcements or do they really believe that they were untouchable.  Look to the very smug Mr. Kohler,  he looks very confident.  Hornby could very well lose some friends over this act of bastardry.

 

If action is taken, it would not be Rapido doing so directly, they are not the rights holders, it would be StudioCanal.

[Karl]

I find it strange that the 4F 3924 model that in the video was publicised as 'From the Railway Children Return' film doesn't seem to be in this 'Trains on Film' inspired range if it is to be a range.

[micklner]

7 minutes ago, Legend said:

Dont get the railway connection in  Lady with the lamp . I've probably seen it but cant remember . Was Florence Nightingale a closet trainspotter ? What have I missed ?

 

You know if Hornby had simply developed Lion and sold it with a set of coaches  I think they would be just as successful and they would get plaudits  .  I appreciate Titfield would have added a few more sales , but face it , they lost out to Rapido. If you snooze you lose and SK lost this one . Appears he doesnt want to let go .  I dont think Richard Lines would be impressed .

 

Maybe Studiocanal not that bothered . its additional publicity after all and its only model trains .   Rapido , would they go to court .................it all costs money.  Maybe thats what Hornby gambling on ?  But it all seems so unnecessary 

 

Lion is in the film , shown stopping in a station for about ten seconds in the film from memory. A very weak  reason for linking it to a film. IMHO Hornby are quite sad about all the fuss they have created today, it wont do them any favours in the future.

[JohnR]

Just now, Karl said:

I find it strange that the 4F 3924 model that in the video was publicised as 'From the Railway Children Return' film doesn't seem to be in this 'Trains on Film' inspired range if it is to be a range.

 

I'd have thought another obvious one would  be the original 1970 Railway Children. Pannier in that brown livery etc. Oakworth station in the Skaledale range, etc.

[GWR-fan]

Was "Lion" also used towards the end of a movie on the young Queen Victoria circa-1930's.  The film showed the loco and several carriages (somewhat like early horse drawn coaches along with a "brakeman" in period attire atop the coach) leaving a station with Victoria and Albert onboard.  Perhaps another movie for Simon to lay claim to.