Hornby 2022 - Trains on Film

[Steven B]

I suspect the wording "inspired by" will be Hornby's get out of jail free card. There's no other branding relating to the film on the packaging - unlike the Rapido artwork which borrows heavily from the film.

 

I wonder if there will be an "inspired by James Bond" limited edition of the ex-Lima class 20 painted black with a glued on shart nose and couple of Russian looking Mk1s...

 

Steven B.

[RichardT]

2 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

 

Was "Lion" also used towards the end of a movie on the young Queen Victoria circa-1930's. 

 

Yes: “Victoria The Great”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_the_Great
 

Richard

[Global]

27 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

I'm sorry, but are you are putting the long-term future of Hornby as more important than the long-term future of other companies? Hornby can do what they like to survive, legal or otherwise?

 

IPR and the like are there for a reason and not to be just ignored when convenient. Assuming that the position between StudioCanal and Rapido is just as described, Hornby should hang their heads in shame and withdraw the model immediately. To not do so may cost Rapido sales now, in favour of a Hornby model that never actually reaches the market. 

 

I decided against purchasing any more Hornby models over their treatment of people with the tier system, just sticking with my one pre-order for an APT with Kernow. I came today to see how my self imposed embargo was going to impact me, all that has happened is my non-purchase of  Hornby items has been reinforced.

Roy

 

 

 

I totally agree and I for one certainly wouldn’t shed a tear if Hornby were no more! 
 

I’d already decided that I’d not be purchasing anything further of theirs regardless of what they announced today but their bullying tactics have really left a bad taste in the mouth and I’ve cancelled all my outstanding (not in terms of the quality that’s for sure!) pre orders for Hornby.

 

Anything I already have will be going on eBay shortly and the de-Hornbyification will be complete! 
 

For those who think that’s a bit extreme, it’s about the principal of it and Hornby’s tactics having a negative effect on the hobby. If they think they can just bully others out of the market - especially those producing far superior models - and get away with it then I’d rather make do without. 

[Harlequin]

15 minutes ago, Steven B said:

I suspect the wording "inspired by" will be Hornby's get out of jail free card. There's no other branding relating to the film on the packaging - unlike the Rapido artwork which borrows heavily from the film.

 

Steven B.

There's the phrase, "The Titfield Thunderbolt" plastered across the box... The film title must be part of the intellectual property that Studio Canal and Rapido hold rights over, mustn't it?

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Harlequin

[HonestTom]

18 minutes ago, Steven B said:

I suspect the wording "inspired by" will be Hornby's get out of jail free card. There's no other branding relating to the film on the packaging - unlike the Rapido artwork which borrows heavily from the film.

Well, there is another very clear violation of intellectual property here. Dan's house. Lion, the Loriot and the Toad are all in the public domain, so to speak (although portraying Lion in that livery with the Thunderbolt name is very dubious). But Dan's house only existed as a prop, designed and built by the production company and not based on any specific prototype. Therefore, one could argue that it's a design owned by the studio.

 

The artwork for this also borrows from the film, being as how the box depicts actual scenes. So that may well also be considered an IP violation.

 

18 minutes ago, Steven B said:

I wonder if there will be an "inspired by James Bond" limited edition of the ex-Lima class 20 painted black with a glued on shart nose

I can imagine that leaving a bad smell with the IP owners.

Edited January 10, 2022 by HonestTom

[Pmorgancym]

14 minutes ago, Steven B said:

I suspect the wording "inspired by" will be Hornby's get out of jail free card. There's no other branding relating to the film on the packaging - unlike the Rapido artwork which borrows heavily from the film.

 

I wonder if there will be an "inspired by James Bond" limited edition of the ex-Lima class 20 painted black with a glued on shart nose and couple of Russian looking Mk1s...

 

Steven B.

Will it thought?  Let's think back, Bachmann couldn't release TR versions of Skarleoy and Rheanus because of Hornby's exclusinve rights to TTE, similarly Bachman's start set that used a non face, non TTE liveried Thomas and Percy.

[JonathonAG]

1 minute ago, Harlequin said:

There's the phrase "The Titfield Thunderbolt"... The film title must be part of the intellectual property that Studio Canal and Rapido hold rights over.

 

Otherwise, lookout for Bachmann's high end 'Inspired By The Hogwarts Express'.  Some level of protection must be available to both Studio Canal and Rapido, but similarly the legal team at Hornby must either be confident in skirting those protections or perhaps were banking on Rapido backing out after the range announcement, leaving Hornby to negotiate a new deal with the film rights holder.

[Porcy Mane]

I wonder how similar Hornby's 2022 announced steam generator is to the TRS system?

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv8jQrEcIAJrNbfnnVuPBAQ/videos

 

Along with the pistols at dawn scenario with Rapido, maybe Hornby is going for a double whammy.

 

Maybe the Hornby board has subscribed to the,  "any publicity is good publicity" point of view?

Edited January 10, 2022 by Porcy Mane

[69843]

7 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

I wonder how similar Hornby's 2022 announced steam generator is to the TRS system?

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv8jQrEcIAJrNbfnnVuPBAQ/videos

Ahh so I'm not the only one that noticed this then

I wonder if Hornby has purchased the rights to the tech from TRS or similar.

[Legend]

But if Hornby are in contact with Studiocanal over the Railway Children Returns , is it not extremely unlikely that the subject of the Titfield Thunderbolt and Lady with the lamp  would not have come up ?   Maybe Studiocanal have said they have no objection .  While it leaves a bad smell and I really dont like the bullying tactics I can't believe that Hornby would be stupid enough to leave itself open to litigation . 

[caradoc]

3 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

I think we as a hobby need Hornby to be strong and if these sales help Hornby then I think that's great.

 

Can Hornby, as by far the biggest player in the UK model train market, not find a way to be strong without doing things like this ? I don't buy much Hornby anyway because, as others have said, their interest in BR blue is minimal, but this action puts me off buying any of their products. 

 

[HonestTom]

11 minutes ago, JonathonAG said:

Otherwise, lookout for Bachmann's high end 'Inspired By The Hogwarts Express'.  Some level of protection must be available to both Studio Canal and Rapido, but similarly the legal team at Hornby must either be confident in skirting those protections or perhaps were banking on Rapido backing out after the range announcement, leaving Hornby to negotiate a new deal with the film rights holder.

 

Yeah, it does seem weird that Hornby would do something that, on the face of it, is an obvious violation of IP rights. This isn't some bloke with a 3D printer. They're a major company with a long history of merchandise tie-ins, it's not like they don't know what they're doing. Some possibilities that spring to mind (and note that this is purely speculation on my part, not based on any evidence):

 

- Hornby did produce a Titfield Thunderbolt train pack some years back. Perhaps they have reason to believe that those rights still apply. At the time, I recall they stated that they had plans to produce a range of film tie-ins, but that was the only one that actually came out.

 

- They're planning to produce something similar but not quite there, e.g. a version of Lion in a similar but not identical livery, Dan's house replaced with the body of a LMR coach, all direct references to the film scrubbed by the time of release. As I mentioned above, they produced a version of the Hall a while back that was to all intents and purposes the Hogwarts Express, but bearing the Olton Hall name and the words "GREAT WESTERN" on the tender, and the folk at Warner Bros let it go.

 

- They don't actually plan to produce this, and the aim is to tie Rapido up in legal mumbo-jumbo, drain their coffers and enable Hornby to bring their Lion and Loriot out first.

 

This is, as I say, tinfoil hat speculation, but Hornby have lately exhibited some very ungentlemanly behaviour vis-a-vis their competitors.

[RichardT]

9 minutes ago, caradoc said:

Can Hornby, as by far the biggest player in the UK model train market, not find a way to be strong without doing things like this ?

This. 100%.
 

I’ve previously wished that Hornby would move into N, but now I’m not so sure, because I suspect that if they did, instead of widening the range available to us N modellers, we’d just get more of this kind of carp, with them trying to squeeze Dapol or Sonic out by claiming that LNER Pacifics or J50s “belong to them.”

 

Richard

[30801]

I'm not interested in the Titfield Thunderbolt but if I were I don't see much reason to buy the Hornby one.

I'd want a nice box that looks like the original film poster along with lots of imagery that comes directly from the film. Maybe some postcards and a booklet inside too.

Hornby's 'legally safe maybe' box art just sort of mumbles 'Oh hey it's a box with a train in it or something'. Not something that would take pride of place in a collector's cabinet.

[Nearholmer]

Chances of me buying a TF from either maker: nil, because neither is the right scale for my interests, however …….

What a nasty, unpleasant, mean-spirited, brattish piece of behaviour from Hornby.

 

They may well have found a way of doing it legally, or at least be confident that they have, and it might be argued that all’s fair in love and commercial competition, but I just can’t help hoping that the gods of natural justice cause warps in their moulding tool, and Mazak-rot in their castings.

 

Deeply, deeply unlikeable.

 

[Fair Oak Junction]

9 minutes ago, Legend said:

But if Hornby are in contact with Studiocanal over the Railway Children Returns , is it not extremely unlikely that the subject of the Titfield Thunderbolt and Lady with the lamp  would not have come up ?   Maybe Studiocanal have said they have no objection .  While it leaves a bad smell and I really dont like the bullying tactics I can't believe that Hornby would be stupid enough to leave itself open to litigation . 

 

Well if your theory is correct (which I must say I don't believe for a minute), then the underhanded duplicity is on the part of StudioCanal.

 

The video Rapido have posted about the situation makes it very clear the they were given exclusive rights to the Titfield range, and it definitely sounds like SC are on their side in this. So for them to tell Hornby it's fine to make competing models, or even just turn a blind eye, would most likely leave them in breach of contract with Rapido.

 

This situation seems like a very clear example of Mr Kohler's attitude that Hornby are untouchable, and I hope they get a public humbling from StudioCanal's legal department.

[Pmorgancym]

While people speculate on the 'legally different' aspect, doesn't their Pearce and Crump OB coach drive  a coach (ahem) and horses through that??

[jonnyuk]

Hornby started all this  main stream pre grouping froth with Rocket, why are they not allowed to try and capitalise on it with other ranges, if another company is doing the same then so be it (as long as the law has not been broken), like or not we are in a capitalist world here in the west. Car companies all make the same looking cars, same size engines, same number of doors, they copy each other all the time, so does nearly every other industry, why are trains any different?

Hornby can see the competition creeping in from all directions across their entire train range of products, are they to simply say fair enough, you go and have that product, you over there, have that one, you over that have that one as well? Hornby can't protect all their area's of interest so have to be strategic on what to defend/go up against. if this means the smaller competition then so be it.
I for one like the concept of this range and look forward to where it may go, as someone has already said, James Bond (Hornby already do Scalextrix Bond themes), i would be up for that 100%.

 

[HonestTom]

15 minutes ago, Legend said:

But if Hornby are in contact with Studiocanal over the Railway Children Returns , is it not extremely unlikely that the subject of the Titfield Thunderbolt and Lady with the lamp  would not have come up ?   Maybe Studiocanal have said they have no objection .  While it leaves a bad smell and I really dont like the bullying tactics I can't believe that Hornby would be stupid enough to leave itself open to litigation . 

Rapido have stated repeatedly that the contract is exclusive. Unless there's some error on their own legal team's part that offers a loophole in the contract.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

1 hour ago, Roy Langridge said:

I'm sorry, but are you are putting the long-term future of Hornby as more important than the long-term future of other companies? Hornby can do what they like to survive, legal or otherwise?

 

IPR and the like are there for a reason and not to be just ignored when convenient. Assuming that the position between StudioCanal and Rapido is just as described, Hornby should hang their heads in shame and withdraw the model immediately. To not do so may cost Rapido sales now, in favour of a Hornby model that never actually reaches the market. 

Roy

 

Allow me to clarify my thoughts if I may.

 

I am not supporting Hornby if they have done something illegal - I sincerely hope that they haven't, but I am not supporting them if they have.

 

But, on the other issue, the bigger picture, I am supporting Hornby in general as I feel that the continued success of this brand is very important if the hobby is to attract newcomers to the hobby and I feel that some, not all, of these anti-Hornby comments, here and elsewhere on forums, are counter-productive.

Edited January 10, 2022 by TEAMYAKIMA

[m0rris]

 

8 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said:

While people speculate on the 'legally different' aspect, doesn't their Pearce and Crump OB coach drive  a coach (ahem) and horses through that??

 

A very good point, I can't help but feel that the "inspired by" element runs far too close for comfort on the Duck test... 

 

The real issue is the pattern of behaviour, yes, it was understandable that they try to defend 66 and Terrier sales as they are a bread and butter staple of the range. However, this time though they've dodged the traffic, crossed the road and walked another quarter of a mile to start a fight - for what? The excuse of "this has been long in development" is a fair one but only goes so far, so now it looks like something else. The hobby doesn't need this and actually they should be squeezing out other manufacturers with quality products, not by chasing market share on niche products.

 

At the end of the day, this is a hobby that is supposed to bring joy. We know it also has its downsides, but to see such nakedly aggressive behaviour detracts from it and leaves a sour taste. I won't be boycotting Hornby as I model a different scale for space reasons, but it is unpleasant and achieves very little for the modellers who want high quality, unique products covering a wide variety of prototypes. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by m0rris

[30801]

3 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

I for one like the concept of this range and look forward to where it may go, as someone has already said, James Bond (Hornby already do Scalextrix Bond themes), i would be up for that 100%.

 

 

Nothing wrong with the concept apart from trying to dodge licensing other peoples' IP while still profiting from it.

 

Anyway here's a nice product idea for Hornby.

[Bluebell Model Railway]

Certainly quite a risk, its a new range for sure... I am just trying to remember who announced what first.... as it was last year all this came out, so it appears some how they both knew they were both working on the same if not similar range.... So I don't really buy the whole Studio Canal knew nothing about someone else doing it....  Someone knew something about it.

Depending what the IP covers.... obviously the other manufacturer thinks its got the upper hand... but is that for the use of the name... or the graphics.. or the use of Studio Canal on the box its obviously more heavily branded for the enthusiast or collector.  

There could also be a clause or an agreement between the two, which says deny everything... who knows, either way get on with it, not interested in all this political stuff... depends who has the best sales... either way Studio Canal sell a few more dvds 

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, 30801 said:

Anyway here's a nice product idea for Hornby.

 

Funny that; someone just sent me this:

 

[stovepipe]

5 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

Hornby started all this  main stream pre grouping froth with Rocket

 

Wasn't that Bachman with the SECR C Class in 2012?