Jump to content
 

Hornby 2022 - Trains on Film


AY Mod
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • RMweb Gold
2 hours ago, melmerby said:

The thing I find odd about the whole affair is why Studio Canal would give the licence to Rapido in the first place. (see below*)

If you are a rights holder you want info about your product plastered all over the place.

With Hornby they would get that, all the Hornby Retailers can put up posters and displays relating to the film, it's anniversary and have the tie in products for sale, in the same way all the Star Wars, Frozen etc. film merchandise was available everywhere.

 

What do they get with Rapido?

No retail base in the UK, available at only a few model shops and unknown to Joe Public and much of the toy train market.

I'm puzzled.

 

Rapido will IMHO get a lot more from it than SC.

 

*This is not meant to cast aspersions on Rapido but more to question what Studio Canal might think they are going to get from the tie up.

 

Perhaps you should look here https://rapidotrains.co.uk/official-retailers/ before making such a statement about no retail base, the list of official retailers shows otherwise. 

  • Like 5
  • Agree 10
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Denbridge said:

Interesting that most people are conveniently ignoring the fact that Hornby announced they were making Lion before Rapido. It was also logical that Hornby would capitalise on the models investment to use it for a Titfield range.

So, it could be argued that it was in fact Rapido who attempted to steal a march on Hornby.

I somehow doubt it was Rapido that tried to steal a march on Hornby. Seems more likely that Hornby learned that Rapido had acquired the Titfield rights before them and then rushed to reveal their own plans to do a Lion before Rapido could, as Rapido had announced that they had a major reveal to make on April 1st, before Hornby's own sudden reveal that they'd be doing Lion.

Along with the fact that, you know, Rapido actually has a contract with Studio canal for the Titfield stuff, which no doubt would've been settled a fair amount of time before either announcement, especially given that Rapido had a lot of CAD work completed and ready to show off under 3 weeks after their initial announcement of the range.

  • Agree 11
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Denbridge said:

Interesting that most people are conveniently ignoring the fact that Hornby announced they were making Lion before Rapido. It was also logical that Hornby would capitalise on the models investment to use it for a Titfield range.

So, it could be argued that it was in fact Rapido who attempted to steal a march on Hornby.

 

Except that history tells a different tale. As others have pointed out.

 

Rapido felt it necessary to bring their announcement forward because they were informed that 'someone' attempted to acquire the rights to SC material to which they had exclusive rights already contracted. Hornby then released a half baked announcement that they intend to produce 'Lion', which incidentally they still haven't officially announced; only this Titfield branded version*.

 

Hornby have developed a rather unfortunate history of rushing models to compete with smaller fish. Terriers. Stroudley 'Generic' coaches. The mass class 66 release in the run up to the Hattons model arriving. I'd also venture that flooding the market with three singles and three triple packs of MHA is a stab at Accurascale.

Edited by Zunnan
*and the other film box
  • Agree 11
  • Round of applause 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
1 hour ago, Graham_Muz said:

 

Perhaps you should look here https://rapidotrains.co.uk/official-retailers/ before making such a statement about no retail base, the list of official retailers shows otherwise. 

Perhaps you should look here:

Smyth's Toys, The Entertainer, Argos, Hamleys etc. etc.? (The biggest High St. toy retailers in UK by sales and they all sell Hornby.)

 

Rapido are mainly in model shops that the average person wouldn't visit plus a few heritage lines, which they might.

 

 

  • Agree 2
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
  • Funny 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
51 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Perhaps you should look here:

Smyth's Toys, The Entertainer, Argos, Hamleys etc. etc.? (The biggest High St. toy retailers in UK by sales and they all sell Hornby.)

 

Rapido are mainly in model shops that the average person wouldn't visit plus a few heritage lines, which they might.

 

 

 

And?

 

Bachmann are hardly a 'small player' in model railways yet they are not stocked in any of retailers you list.

 

Moreover do those retailers you list feature a comprehensive collection of Hornby products? The last time I looked the offerings at Argos consisted of a couple of train sets - hardly evidence of a serious model railway retailer and pretending to they are is akin to saying Lidl is a serious DIY store or Tesco a serious garden centre because both happen to sell a small range of said products.

 

Now I don't deny that a Hornby 'Inspired by the Titfield Thunderbolt' set might well appeal to the non modelling community who happen to browse such stores and generate additional sales for Hornby - BUT on the flip side since when has the Titfield Thunderbolt been a movie kids have raved over? In fact I bet the majority of those under 50 probably have zero idea the film even exists let alone what to buy merchandise associated with it in toy stores  - if we are talking about the 'general public' so to speak I reckon you could probably make grater sales by advertising it in magazines geared to people over 50 years old.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 10
Link to post
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

Now I don't deny that a Hornby 'Inspired by the Titfield Thunderbolt' set might well appeal to the non modelling community who happen to browse such stores and generate additional sales for Hornby - BUT on the flip side since when has the Titfield Thunderbolt been a movie kids have raved over? In fact I bet the majority of those under 50 probably have zero idea the film even exists let alone what to buy merchandise associated with it in toy stores  - if we are talking about the 'general public' so to speak I reckon you could probably make grater sales by advertising it in magazines geared to people over 50 years old.

 

thats the curious thing to me, its a 70 year old movie, well 69 actually as it didnt come out till 1953, 'Ealing comedies' dont exactly get much of a run out in the local multiplexes or even reruns on tv anymore, and is probably only available in the bargain bin blu-ray/dvd section, what recognition is there for the Titfield Thunderbolt among the general population anymore ? . I can understand the appeal from a modellers aspect keen to have something that might fit in with their layout, as a quirky addition and done well its going to have appeal, and the name might mean more than the actual film did to most.

 

but the average kid fed on a diet of superhero movies and wizards,are they really going to see this and ask for an ancient looking train set from a film thats really from their great grandparents era, that their parents have probably never watched either ?

 

its not like its the train from Harry Potter, or Paddingtons cgi films, or even from a beloved classic childrens film like the Railway children which has an imminent remake, that they might have memories of watching again and again, its maybe not an obscure film, but its not a film alot of people have been watching alot of in this century put it that way is how Id describe it.

 

so it just seems well unlikely that these sets are aimed at anything other than either fans of the film or model rail enthusiasts/collectors.

 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Waverley47708 said:

Was watching From Russia With Love the other night, am sure that although the days shots of the train were continental looking the fleeting night shots looked like a Black 5 and a set of green mk1s.

 

At least one is a Royal Scot.

.

The "reverse images" is to make it colour match with the Continental trains being used. Turkish I think, as they couldn't film behind the Iron Curtain at the time.

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

  • Agree 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Sadnerd said:

Could the Hornby TT just be all old tooling; wasn't there a Lion years ago?

 

The only model of Lion available was the Keyser Kit.

 

Which actually did have nameplates for Thunderbolt as well as Lion.

 

 

I think you might be mistaking it for the old Rocket. Or the Der Adler from Trix.

 

spacer.png

 

 

Jason

  • Like 3
  • Agree 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, stonojnr said:

 

thats the curious thing to me, its a 70 year old movie, well 69 actually as it didnt come out till 1953, 'Ealing comedies' dont exactly get much of a run out in the local multiplexes or even reruns on tv anymore, and is probably only available in the bargain bin blu-ray/dvd section, what recognition is there for the Titfield Thunderbolt among the general population anymore ? . I can understand the appeal from a modellers aspect keen to have something that might fit in with their layout, as a quirky addition and done well its going to have appeal, and the name might mean more than the actual film did to most.

 

but the average kid fed on a diet of superhero movies and wizards,are they really going to see this and ask for an ancient looking train set from a film thats really from their great grandparents era, that their parents have probably never watched either ?

 

so it just seems well unlikely that these sets are aimed at anything other than either fans of the film or model rail enthusiasts/collectors.

 

Precisely.  My brother is an avid film buff and collects multiple copies of dvd and Blu-Rays, and went with me to watch an "arthouse" showing of The Ladykillers a few years back.  It was packed, and everyone was well under 85.  My brother also collects film memorabilia.  He would certainly be in the market for a 70th anniversary Blu-Ray release of "Titfield" with specials, and might be tempted by the railway items.

That is the market being targeted. Film fans, with a side order of railway enthusiasts.  The average kid is most definitely not the core demographic being targeted, nor are Joe and Joanna Numpty whose chief interests lie in stupid American blockbusters and reality TV.  In this case, it's the "Titfield at 70" concept that is the brand, not Hornby or Rapido.

I've already said it but I still think that this model pack was planned as part of a wider "Titfield at 70" push by Studio Canal to tie in with some other releases like a limited edition Blu-Ray and book, possibly some showings, and who knows, possibly dressing up "Lion" as "Thunderbolt" for a celebratory steaming.  None of which would probably be of any interest to anyone under 50 but then anyone under 50 is likely as not broke, so again, probably not the core marketing thrust of any Titfield at 70 sales jamboree.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

all the Hornby Retailers can put up posters and displays relating to the film,

 

Which would have been unlikely to happen.

 

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

it's anniversary and have the tie in products for sale, in the same way all the Star Wars, Frozen etc. film merchandise was available everywhere.

 

Never will be/would have been as popular as those, and thus never would have gotten the publicity materials that those sort of things get.

 

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

What do they get with Rapido?

available at only a few model shops

 

Interesting definition of a few - and note that unlike Hornby they are available in two of the biggest UK model shops (Hattons & Rails of Sheffield)

 

Those 2 will probably shift more Titfield sets than your high street retailers would.

 

7 hours ago, melmerby said:

I'm puzzled.

 

Rapido are also much better at modern media (YouTube) than Hornby is, and Rapido are also likely to make a better job product.

 

  • Like 3
  • Agree 8
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 10/01/2022 at 20:21, GWR-fan said:

About twenty or so years ago Union Pacific initiated royalty/licencing requirements for any product representing their tradename.  There was much discussion and cries of never modelling the Union Pacific again on the American model railroad scene.  

 

[ my reorg for continuity reasons]

 

Edit:  as a follow on I found this on Wikipedia (quote)  "On May 27, 2004, Union Pacific Railroad sued Athearn (another manufacturer of model railroad equipment) and Lionel for trademark infringement. The railroad claimed both companies put the names and logos of UP, as well as the names and logos of various fallen flag railroads UP had acquired over the years, on their model railroad products without a license. While Athearn quickly settled and acquired a license, Lionel initially resisted, arguing that it and its predecessor companies had been using the logos for more than 50 years, and had been encouraged or even paid to do so. On September 13, 2006, Lionel and UP settled the suit for US$640,000 plus a royalty on future sales." (end quote)

 

You didn't go far enough.  UP then went after MTH, and MTH did a good deed for the entire North American train hobby.  They settled out of court with UP, and UP changed things to provide the model manufacturers with royalty free licenses for making models.

 

There are still licensing issues - Athearn has had a planned VIA model delayed by working through VIA's legal process during Covid - but they generally are royalty free.

 

 

On 10/01/2022 at 20:21, GWR-fan said:

As companies takeover other companies does the original trademark retain legal status even if no longer used?   Would Hornby have always received approval to represent the numerous liveries or even the design characteristics of the many models produced over the years?

 

No idea about the legalities, though at least for US railroads the popularity of heritage paint schemes makes the issue moot.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 However as yet another city has reportedly just been locked down in China the entire situation regarding any stage of any model railway production must be very firmly in the lap of the great god Co-Vid.  So unless the things are already on a ship who really knows when they will reach our shores and on recent performance even the year must be in doubt let alone the month?

 

Several manufacturers reported last year projects delayed as workers left early for CNY - sometimes a month or more - due to Covid fears and the resulting issues in the factories having insufficient staff to get things done.

 

I suspect with the latest news out of China we will be seeing a repeat, with workers leaving now so they don't risk getting stuck in a lockdown and missing the return home.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:


I've already said it but I still think that this model pack was planned as part of a wider "Titfield at 70" push by Studio Canal to tie in with some other releases like a limited edition Blu-Ray and book, possibly some showings, and who knows, possibly dressing up "Lion" as "Thunderbolt" for a celebratory steaming.  None of which would probably be of any interest to anyone under 50 but then anyone under 50 is likely as not broke, so again, probably not the core marketing thrust of any Titfield at 70 sales jamboree.

 

Never going to happen I'm afraid. It's stuffed and mounted permanently.

 

It was looked at a few years ago and everything that needed replacing was the parts that are original. The frames for example are knackered and twisted, a legacy of the damage caused in the filming when it had a rough shunt when they were pushing the train to meet up with it after the coupling snaps.

 

That was possibly the reason the Loriot was withdrawn soon after.

 

 

Jason

  • Agree 1
  • Informative/Useful 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, stonojnr said:

 

thats the curious thing to me, its a 70 year old movie, well 69 actually as it didnt come out till 1953, 'Ealing comedies' dont exactly get much of a run out in the local multiplexes or even reruns on tv anymore, and is probably only available in the bargain bin blu-ray/dvd section, what recognition is there for the Titfield Thunderbolt among the general population anymore ? . I can understand the appeal from a modellers aspect keen to have something that might fit in with their layout, as a quirky addition and done well its going to have appeal, and the name might mean more than the actual film did to most.

 

but the average kid fed on a diet of superhero movies and wizards,are they really going to see this and ask for an ancient looking train set from a film thats really from their great grandparents era, that their parents have probably never watched either ?

 

its not like its the train from Harry Potter, or Paddingtons cgi films, or even from a beloved classic childrens film like the Railway children which has an imminent remake, that they might have memories of watching again and again, its maybe not an obscure film, but its not a film alot of people have been watching alot of in this century put it that way is how Id describe it.

 

so it just seems well unlikely that these sets are aimed at anything other than either fans of the film or model rail enthusiasts/collectors.

 

 

A seventy year old movie that is repeated all the time though. I think you need to watch TV more.  :prankster:

 

ISTR it was on a couple of months before Christmas with all the other Ealing films. Probably still on iPlayer.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Never going to happen I'm afraid. It's stuffed and mounted permanently.

 

It was looked at a few years ago and everything that needed replacing was the parts that are original. The frames for example are knackered and twisted, a legacy of the damage caused in the filming when it had a rough shunt when they were pushing the train to meet up with it after the coupling snaps.

 

That was possibly the reason the Loriot was withdrawn soon after.

 

 

Jason

Wasn't there a replica built? Something "Lion shaped" has steamed at the Manchester museum, could act as a stunt double.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

Wasn't there a replica built? Something "Lion shaped" has steamed at the Manchester museum, could act as a stunt double.

 

There is talk of a replica of it's class mate Tiger being built. But I can't see it happening to be honest. Too much financial insecurity with the museum looking at it from an outsiders perspective.

 

 

The replica they do have is Planet. One of the successors to Rocket, with a reversed chassis and improved boiler. Probably one of the first modern locomotives.

 

spacer.png

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_(locomotive)

 

Apparently used in the TV series Victoria

 

 

 

Then again you could be thinking of Lion itself which was on loan there for a while whilst Liverpool Museum was undergoing renovation.

 

I was actually one of the few people from this neck of the woods that thought it would have been a better place to keep it. Putting aside local rivalries between Liverpool and Manchester, it was in an original L&MR station alongside other railway exhibits.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited by Steamport Southport
  • Like 2
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, autocoach said:

North American exposure?...I understand the TT video is not available in North American format. Would love that to change.  I have an old modified DVR player for European region videos but just found it no longer works.

 

 

Titfield Thunderbolt is available in a North American (Region 1) DVD - I have a copy somewhere.

 

It appears it might be Out of Print, but you can still find it and there are some new copies still on eBay for under $20

 

You do need to be careful as Amazon and eBay are flooded with people selling the UK version, but if you are careful you can get a NTSC/Region 1 version (eBay at least will allow you to restrict results based on Region Code)

Edited by mdvle
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

A seventy year old movie that is repeated all the time though. I think you need to watch TV more.  :prankster:

 

ISTR it was on a couple of months before Christmas with all the other Ealing films. Probably still on iPlayer.


Wasn’t it shown on BBC Four though? Great for classic forgotten or lesser movies but not exactly Sky Cinema or Netflix for a modern audience, is it? I doubt the average person would have a clue about the movie, it’s got an audience with film and railway enthusiasts, and that’s about it.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
4 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

Wasn't there a replica built? Something "Lion shaped" has steamed at the Manchester museum, could act as a stunt double.

That was the 2-2-0 Planet which would be more welcome than duplicating Lion as it could run with their Rocket ;)

 

  • Like 2
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Zunnan said:

 

Except that history tells a different tale. As others have pointed out.

 

Rapido felt it necessary to bring their announcement forward because they were informed that 'someone' attempted to acquire the rights to SC material to which they had exclusive rights already contracted. Hornby then released a half baked announcement that they intend to produce 'Lion', which incidentally they still haven't officially announced; only this Titfield branded version*.

 

Hornby have developed a rather unfortunate history of rushing models to compete with smaller fish. Terriers. Stroudley 'Generic' coaches. The mass class 66 release in the run up to the Hattons model arriving. I'd also venture that flooding the market with three singles and three triple packs of MHA is a stab at Accurascale.

 

I wouldn't call the terriers 'rushed'. Nor unfortunate.

in many ways (length, frame detail, seamless cab roof), they are BETTER than the Rails/Dapol model. And were improved (e.g. recessed tank tops) on the second releases.

Edited by G-BOAF
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
9 hours ago, melmerby said:

Perhaps you should look here:

Smyth's Toys, The Entertainer, Argos, Hamleys etc. etc.? (The biggest High St. toy retailers in UK by sales and they all sell Hornby.)

 

Rapido are mainly in model shops that the average person wouldn't visit plus a few heritage lines, which they might.

 

 

 

I was simply correcting your statement "No retail base" which is blatantly untrue.

  • Like 4
  • Agree 2
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, melmerby said:

Perhaps you should look here:

Smyth's Toys, The Entertainer, Argos, Hamleys etc. etc.? (The biggest High St. toy retailers in UK by sales and they all sell Hornby.)

 

Rapido are mainly in model shops that the average person wouldn't visit plus a few heritage lines, which they might.

 

 

Not seen any Hornby in my local Smyths or Hamleys or the Entertainer, maybe some of the gimmicky Xmas sets.

  • Like 2
  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

How the rights came to Rapido, I guess went like this.

Hornby having done the earlier set thought the license was in the bag, went off and started merrily developing.  Then they started to consider box art and marketting, at this point approached Studio Canal. Hey remember us, we've got this great idea, just want your approval.  Err sorry guys we signed the rights over last week.

Rapido went the other way, maybe because they can't afford to waste development time, maybe experience with US Railroads over licensing, went to Studio Canal and said hey guys we're think of doing this, is that ok?  Got the rights and started developing.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

And?

 

Bachmann are hardly a 'small player' in model railways yet they are not stocked in any of retailers you list.

 

Moreover do those retailers you list feature a comprehensive collection of Hornby products? The last time I looked the offerings at Argos consisted of a couple of train sets - hardly evidence of a serious model railway retailer and pretending to they are is akin to saying Lidl is a serious DIY store or Tesco a serious garden centre because both happen to sell a small range of said products.

 

Now I don't deny that a Hornby 'Inspired by the Titfield Thunderbolt' set might well appeal to the non modelling community who happen to browse such stores and generate additional sales for Hornby - BUT on the flip side since when has the Titfield Thunderbolt been a movie kids have raved over? In fact I bet the majority of those under 50 probably have zero idea the film even exists let alone what to buy merchandise associated with it in toy stores  - if we are talking about the 'general public' so to speak I reckon you could probably make grater sales by advertising it in magazines geared to people over 50 years old.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


I’m early 40s and I certainly had never heard of the film before now, or Lion for that matter, so was a bit oblivious to it all until it all kicked off on Monday! 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...