Hornby 2022 - Trains on Film

[30801]

Thinking on other films to make trains of has anyone mentioned the latest Mission Impossible?

The one with the Frenchified new-build diesel powered Britannia thing. They could bundle it with a cliff to run it off for extra play value.

[PhilJ W]

I've noticed that one retailer is heavily promoting the Rapido version. That retailer is Rails of Sheffield who as I understand it Hornby no longer allows to stock their products. Also Hornby's tier system when it comes to supplying retailers could count against them. Hornby's practice of limiting supplies of models to those on tier 3 might well encourage such retailers to look elsewhere. No doubt Studio Canal will start promoting 'Titfield' products by the end of this year ready for 2023 and no doubt that will include promoting the models. I should imagine the Rapido models will be in the shops for Christmas but will Hornby's? 

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, eldomtom2 said:

If you have created an almost exact copy you have committed copyright infringement!

 

I would have thought that depends whether the item copied is unique or not.

A locomotive with some wagons in tow is hardly unique and slight changes could mean a completely different train.

[KAR 120C]

Films with trains - what about ‘Von Ryan’s Express’?  My dad took me and my brother to see it when it was released back in the 60’s. In the cinema lobby there was a model train with scenery, buildings and figures depicting the ‘Express’ carrying the escaping POW’s.

[Steamport Southport]

2 minutes ago, KAR 120C said:

Films with trains - what about ‘Von Ryan’s Express’?  My dad took me and my brother to see it when it was released back in the 60’s. In the cinema lobby there was a model train with scenery, buildings and figures depicting the ‘Express’ carrying the escaping POW’s.

 

Maybe a bit too foreign though.

 

 

Although I did think of Octopussy earlier as it has LMS CCTs in it which are in the Hornby range. Maybe with one of the German locomotives from the international ranges.

 

These are the CCTs used in the film.

 

http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=777

 

http://www.ws.rhrp.org.uk/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=778

[RJS1977]

3 hours ago, RichardT said:

Similar to Freedom of Information requests to bodies covered by the FOI legislation: any request for information from such a body is *automatically* an FOI request and must be treated as such, including replying within time limits etc.  There’s no need when making your request to specifically say “I am requesting this information under the FOI Act.”

(That said, with some public bodies it doesn’t do any harm to remind them.)

RT

 

Speaking as a former information rights officer - not quite.

 

Whilst a request for information does not need to include references to the FoI Act, not all requests for information fall under FoI (even if the requestor has referred to FoI in their request).

 

There are three sets of legislation that a request can fall under:

 

FoI - The Freedom of Information Act (2000)

EIR - The Environmental Information Regulations (2004)

DPA/GDPR - Data Protection Act (2016)/General Data Protection Regulations

 

As a general rule:

 

EIR is used for information relating to environmental measures.

DPA/GDPR is used when people ask for their own *personal* information (but not information relating to linited companies or limited partnerships that they own/work for).

FoI is used for most other requests. However if someone asked for information relating to their own company, we tended not to release this under FoI but rather treat it as a "business as usual" request and just give it to them (unless there was some good reason not to). This was because the identity of the requestor is not to be taken into account when processing FoI requests.  So any requests for information relating to that business would have to be treated as if the person making the request was *not* connected to the business - otherwise, if we released the information, we would then be duty bound to release it to anyone who asked for it, whether they were connected to the business or not (indeed strictly speaking we were supposed to post copies of all releases under FoI on our website so that anyone could see it in future.

 

In practice, as an environment-based organisation, the majority of our releases were under EIR, with a smaller number under DPA/GDPR. FoI mainly tended to be used for questions like "How many printers do you have?" or "How many envelopes do you send out a year?" (yes, really!)

[MrTea]

10 hours ago, Pmorgancym said:

Sitting down with the catalogue, the intro bumf for Trains on Film seems incredibly desperate

I saw this range was in the 2022 catalogue yesterday but I only had a brief look. £10.99 was a bit steep for something I don’t really need at the moment. 
 

Can I ask how the product description matches up to what’s on the web page? And are there any disclaimers e.g. ‘items may differ from those depicted’? Just intrigued more than anything else. 

[PhilJ W]

I presume Hornby know who they are taking on https://www.studiocanal.co.uk/ The third largest film distribution company in the world.

[ruggedpeak]

Email from retailer had this (redacted to protect the innocent!) in it, made me smile given the various pre-order/tier and Titfield malarky:

 

[RichardT]

11 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

Speaking as a former information rights officer - not quite

Curses! I’d told myself to stop contributing to these Rapido threads and now I have to come on to apologise!!  Speaking as a former archivist & records manager - guilty as charged of over-simplifying - real professional faux-pas…. Yes, you’re quite correct, and the distinctions are important.

 

Richard 

Edited January 13, 2022 by RichardT
Clarity

[The Stationmaster]

12 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

I've noticed that one retailer is heavily promoting the Rapido version. That retailer is Rails of Sheffield who as I understand it Hornby no longer allows to stock their products. Also Hornby's tier system when it comes to supplying retailers could count against them. Hornby's practice of limiting supplies of models to those on tier 3 might well encourage such retailers to look elsewhere. No doubt Studio Canal will start promoting 'Titfield' products by the end of this year ready for 2023 and no doubt that will include promoting the models. I should imagine the Rapido models will be in the shops for Christmas but will Hornby's? 

It seems to be going a good bit further with the TT train pack because some Tier 1 retailers are being told they have an allocation of zero even before they place any pre-orders.  So it looks like Hornby might well only be aiming to sell direct (if they ever get that far with the project) or they are maybe trying to squeeze out those retailers who are Rapido stockists (mind you I think the latter might not be entirely legal as it would surely be a restrictive trade practice?).

 

Anyway the fewer retailers Hornby are prepared to supply - if any - the better things will be for Rapido's version.  Rather like like a company shooting a smoking great hole in its own foot.  In a very rough and ready calculation I reckon Hornby will need to sell c.750 models to make any money out of their project although part of the tooling cost would be spread over sales of separately packaged Loriot Ys because very few Hornby buyers are likely to realise they were only ever two real ones and they seem to have never moved very fa and didn't get into general traffic use according to some sources.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

project although part of the tooling cost would be spread over sales of separately packaged Loriot Ys because very few Hornby buyers are likely to realise they were only ever two real ones and they seem to have never moved very fa and didn't get into general traffic use according to some sources.

The Loriet may replace the low mac as the default low bed wagon.

 

I’d be Expecting a bottle of coke on it at some point, and another with the Beatles on it. Who knows a Giraffe may rest on it someday.

 

I cant help thinking Hornby missed a sly trick here in this Titfield set…

 

If they took Dans house, and put the Traction engine on the Loriet, it could have changed the perception, whilst quite definitely keeping the subtlety of the theme.

Edited January 13, 2022 by adb968008

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

 part of the tooling cost would be spread over sales of separately packaged Loriot Ys because very few Hornby buyers are likely to realise they were only ever two real ones and they seem to have never moved very fa and didn't get into general traffic use according to some sources.

All the Loriots seem to have been for some particular traffic, as there were many different types built over the years but each type only in small numbers.

The "Y" is difficult to pass off as anything else as well because it looks different to any of it's "sisters"

[Compound2632]

28 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

The Loriet may replace the low mac as the default low bed wagon.

 

Who knows a Giraffe may rest on it someday.

 

As a load, that at least would be prototypical - but not on this wagon:

 

 

[Embedded link to an image posted by @Bucoops.]

[ruggedpeak]

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

It seems to be going a good bit further with the TT train pack because some Tier 1 retailers are being told they have an allocation of zero even before they place any pre-orders.  So it looks like Hornby might well only be aiming to sell direct (if they ever get that far with the project) or they are maybe trying to squeeze out those retailers who are Rapido stockists (mind you I think the latter might not be entirely legal as it would surely be a restrictive trade practice?).

 

Anyway the fewer retailers Hornby are prepared to supply - if any - the better things will be for Rapido's version.  Rather like like a company shooting a smoking great hole in its own foot.  In a very rough and ready calculation I reckon Hornby will need to sell c.750 models to make any money out of their project although part of the tooling cost would be spread over sales of separately packaged Loriot Ys because very few Hornby buyers are likely to realise they were only ever two real ones and they seem to have never moved very fa and didn't get into general traffic use according to some sources.

Error ridden section removed..

 

This week's to do list is going well:

 

Royally pee'd off a rapidly expanding competitor - check

Taken the mickey out of a global media company with huge legal firepower that's not afraid to use it - check

Upset a noticeable/vocal part of the market - check

Confuse retail partners over launch allocations - check

 

and its not even Friday....

 

All this tier nonsense is perfectly timed to allow Rapido to expand their dealership network off the back of disgruntled retailers. To quote Homer Simpson....."Doh!!"

Edited January 13, 2022 by ruggedpeak

[Global]

27 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

Given SK's waffle under Andy 'Paxman' York's ruthless and relentless (!!) interrogation, and muttering something about tooling, I think they have paused it to see if Studio Canal release the legal hounds onto them before they spend any money developing it. Got the impression Hornby were not expecting so much push back and are not sure what to do next.

 

This week's to do list is going well:

 

Royally pee'd off a rapidly expanding competitor - check

Taken the mickey out of a global media company with huge legal firepower that's not afraid to use it - check

Upset a noticeable/vocal part of the market - check

Confuse retail partners over launch allocations - check

 

and its not even Friday....

 

All this tier nonsense is perfectly timed to allow Rapido to expand their dealership network off the back of disgruntled retailers. To quote Homer Simpson....."Doh!!"

Is this a new video that I’ve missed somewhere?! I’ve seen the one from last year where SK is lost for words when announcing Lion but nothing from this week? Now that would be interesting! 

[ruggedpeak]

3 minutes ago, Global said:

Is this a new video that I’ve missed somewhere?! I’ve seen the one from last year where SK is lost for words when announcing Lion but nothing from this week? Now that would be interesting! 

Yes you've missed the imaginary video I was referring to, having not understood the video on the other thread was from last year

[Legend]

45 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

Error ridden section removed..

 

This week's to do list is going well:

 

Royally pee'd off a rapidly expanding competitor - check

Taken the mickey out of a global media company with huge legal firepower that's not afraid to use it - check

Upset a noticeable/vocal part of the market - check

Confuse retail partners over launch allocations - check

 

and its not even Friday....

 

All this tier nonsense is perfectly timed to allow Rapido to expand their dealership network off the back of disgruntled retailers. To quote Homer Simpson....."Doh!!"

 

Going well isn't it .

 

You forgot hack off customers because they cant pre order 2022 releases  because the allocation is so small they are already sold out 

 

Time for a change I think .

[Bucoops]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

As a load, that at least would be prototypical - but not on this wagon:

 

 

[Embedded link to an image posted by @Bucoops.]

 

Truly the gift that gives on giving this pic

[wombatofludham]

21 hours ago, 30801 said:

 

People say Rapido are more media savvy but Hornby scored a major coup with that program.

Shame they're undoing it now.

I think Rapido are more social-media savvy and understand traditional media is becoming a bit of a backwater.  "Yesterday" is hardly a mainstream channel: it's not available on "Freeview PSB" transmitters (relays serving areas of poor transmission, which don't necessarily mean rural areas, some difficult to serve urban areas lack full Freeview service) and has a bit of a "grey" image, (just look at some of the advertising, mainly insurance scams for when you die, and collections of rock and roll songs).  I didn't watch it, mainly because I didn't want to watch some sort of fluff piece blowing smoke up Mr Kohler's derriere, so I wouldn't be surprised if a Rapido YouTube video probably gets a higher audience than the Hornby programme, people underestimate the number of model and other railway enthusiasts who solely engage with their hobby through social media and YouTube, and will never heard of "Yesterday".

(edit) I do agree with you though that this is really undoing any positive spin Hornby might have gained with the programme, regardless of the size and demographic of the audience.  Certainly a significant number of people, if the comments on here are in any way representative, seem to be losing patience with Hornby and their borderline anti-competitive behaviour.

Edited January 13, 2022 by wombatofludham
Brain fade

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, ruggedpeak said:

Error ridden section removed..

 

This week's to do list is going well:

 

Royally pee'd off a rapidly expanding competitor - check

Taken the mickey out of a global media company with huge legal firepower that's not afraid to use it - check

Upset a noticeable/vocal part of the market - check

Confuse retail partners over launch allocations - check

 

and its not even Friday....

 

All this tier nonsense is perfectly timed to allow Rapido to expand their dealership network off the back of disgruntled retailers. To quote Homer Simpson....."Doh!!"

That is a list of errors in itself. 

[Compound2632]

12 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

Certainly a significant number of people, if the comments on here are in any way representative, seem to be losing patience with Hornby and their borderline anti-competitive behaviour.

 

But does anybody not on here know? A majority here is unlikely necessarily a representative majority of potential customers. I doubt, for example, that the model railway magazines will be discussing the issue.

[wombatofludham]

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

But does anybody not on here know? A majority here is unlikely necessarily a representative majority of potential customers. I doubt, for example, that the model railway magazines will be discussing the issue.

It is cropping up in other social media outlets, it even became the subject of a meme on Twitter which was retweeted by Nigel Harris.  This is what I alluded to: this forum is but one subset of the model railway social media network.  We're discussing it ad nauseam but it's out there on other platforms.  Frankly the model railway magazines not discussing it won't be an issue.  "Titgate" is getting traction across social media and not in a positive way from Hornby's perspective.

[rembrow]

23 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

But does anybody not on here know? A majority here is unlikely necessarily a representative majority of potential customers. I doubt, for example, that the model railway magazines will be discussing the issue.

I find it interesting, that the Feb Hornby magazine, that covers the 2022 announcement, has given descriptive coverage to the 'Trains on Film' range, but not separately in the tables. The locos are shown in the steam locomotives table section as L&MR locos, an asterix alongside leads to a footnote in small print, where it explains they are in this range.

Edited January 13, 2022 by rembrow
Correction

[Simon Moore]

Not that I want to get involved in the arguments over titfield I've pre ordered the lady with the lamp set solely because I have wanted a model of lion & a set of coaches to match since visiting the science & industry museum as a kid. It sparked my interest in the victorian's & got me top marks for our school project.