Hornby 2022 - Trains on Film

[Legend]

4 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Has the Hornby 2022 catalogue been distributed yet? I haven't seen one yet in the usual stockists.

Yep I got mine in Tescos along with Hornby Mag . I believe they are also in WHS . Not sure if model shops got them yet . You can also order direct from Key Publishing .

 

Much the same as last year I'm afraid . I collect them so obliged to buy , but it could do with a bit of a shake up.

[Chuffed 1]

23 pages on a misconceived marketing stunt!  That’s almost more than the next three subjects put together.

 

Taken together with the massive cost increases (existing Bure Valley Prairie stock £30 less than the new additions), I can see the targetted ‘guerilla’ manufacturers like Accurascale succeeding where the all-things-to-all-men (and women) approach of the big two may see them fail.

 

Interesting times ahead.

Edited January 17, 2022 by Chuffed 1

[PhilJ W]

20 minutes ago, Legend said:

Yep I got mine in Tescos along with Hornby Mag . I believe they are also in WHS . Not sure if model shops got them yet . You can also order direct from Key Publishing .

 

Much the same as last year I'm afraid . I collect them so obliged to buy , but it could do with a bit of a shake up.

Hornby magazine is in the local Tesco's so I'll check it out.

[Legend]

Just now, PhilJ W said:

Hornby magazine is in the local Tesco's so I'll check it out.

You might have to hunt around . Hornby Mag was in with Hobbies magazines as normal but the catalogue was at Newspaper stand as it was on offer !

[Roddy Angus]

41 minutes ago, Legend said:

You might have to hunt around . Hornby Mag was in with Hobbies magazines as normal but the catalogue was at Newspaper stand as it was on offer !

Snap!

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

You know standing back from this  you can see how big a misjudgement this has been.  I've said before that to me its inconceivable Hornby have done this without investigating consequences .....but who knows .

 

The thing is if they just had announced Lion , maybe with a set of coaches , everyone would have been happy and the whole 2022 Range launch would have been much better . Imagine everything from Lion to Flirt  with new mk3s , HST and Black 5 . A fantastic program that should have generated huge interest. One week on an the threads on most of the launch are disappearing down the lists . There seems to have been less interest in previous years . The only thing thats still appearing is this and the equivalent Rapido thread .   They really have tarnished the launch and I think their reputation .  If it really is one person thats responsible for everything, as suggested by the latest documentary , I'd say he's made a right hash of it !

 

Interesting comment there about the level of interest on RMweb in Hornby's new releases.  The only other 2022 releases  thread which has got into double figures - and isn't too far behind this one - is the Diesel & Electrics thread (17 pages).   The no doubt rather large investment in 'sound & Steam'  has only managed so far to get to page 5; 'Coaching stock' is on page 6 (again an area of big investment in one case);  'Steam Range' is up to page 7 (so almost one third the size of this thread); 'Licences and Collectables' is stuck on the first page as are (not surprisingly on RMweb) 'Playtrains',  'Trainsets', 'Scenics  and Control';  and 'New Tooling Headlines (where discussion has obviously moved to individual subject areas);  'Wagons' are on page 3;  'Dublo Range' - complete with a new A4,  so more big investment - has only got to page 2.  (page details as at 13.00 17 January.

 

With a lot of digging I might possibly dig up my summaries for a similar period after announcement day last year but overall I too get the feeling that there is less overall interest than last year.  Also by weight of page count it clearly doesn't match all the areas where Hornby have clearly spent a lot of money on things like the new Black 5, the LLNER streamliner coaches,  and other items mentioned by 'Legend'.  And we can hardly criticise AYMod for being unevenly handed in his presentation and level of description for all the various items - what we are saying and posting is in no way a reflection of any failure on his part to present all the news.

[PhilJ W]

The Diesel and Electrics page is mostly occupied with the (lack of) the Drax wagons. I've given up on that page as my interest (the Sentinel 0-6-0DH) gets very little mention.

[Phil Parker]

On 16/01/2022 at 12:38, Legend said:

I think it’s likely he’s got the nod from Studiocanal given contacts they must have had over the Railway Children . I appreciate that puts Rapido in an unfortunate position , but what are they going to do , sue Studiocanal , I think unlikely.

 

If StudioCanal don't fight this, then all their other rights will be up for grabs - the arguement should they try to fight a copyright infringement in the future would be that they had allowed these things to slide in the past. Volkswagen years ago, set the lawyers on every aftermarket producer sticking their logo on anything for exactly the same reason. It's why buying a spare wheel cover for your camper van with the logo on is more difficult than it was 20 years ago. It wasn't that they wanted to spend money firing off cease and desist letters to people making stuff in sheds, it's that there was a bigger picture to consider.

 

Here, Rapido's position would be that they had paid for a licence and received nothing for their money. They might even argue that without the licence, they wouldn't have started work on the range itself. At the very least, SC would have to refund the licence money, but they could be chased for more. As you can see, Rapido don't seem to be taking this lightly.

[Steamport Southport]

56 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Interesting comment there about the level of interest on RMweb in Hornby's new releases.  The only other 2022 releases  thread which has got into double figures - and isn't too far behind this one - is the Diesel & Electrics thread (17 pages).   The no doubt rather large investment in 'sound & Steam'  has only managed so far to get to page 5; 'Coaching stock' is on page 6 (again an area of big investment in one case);  'Steam Range' is up to page 7 (so almost one third the size of this thread); 'Licences and Collectables' is stuck on the first page as are (not surprisingly on RMweb) 'Playtrains',  'Trainsets', 'Scenics  and Control';  and 'New Tooling Headlines (where discussion has obviously moved to individual subject areas);  'Wagons' are on page 3;  'Dublo Range' - complete with a new A4,  so more big investment - has only got to page 2.  (page details as at 13.00 17 January.

 

With a lot of digging I might possibly dig up my summaries for a similar period after announcement day last year but overall I too get the feeling that there is less overall interest than last year.  Also by weight of page count it clearly doesn't match all the areas where Hornby have clearly spent a lot of money on things like the new Black 5, the LLNER streamliner coaches,  and other items mentioned by 'Legend'.  And we can hardly criticise AYMod for being unevenly handed in his presentation and level of description for all the various items - what we are saying and posting is in no way a reflection of any failure on his part to present all the news.

 

As much as we can say about the RMweb coverage I don't really think it quite relevant for what was a poorly presented announcement by Hornby.

 

I would say many of us got up early or stayed up, watched the video and have also looked at the Hornby website.

 

Rushed, full of mistakes, poorly photoshopped images, etc.

 

Looks to me like it was cobbled together in a few days on the back of a beermat. In the spirit of Mike Bassett England Manager type announcements I'm surprised we never got locomotives called Benson and Hedges being announced....  

[Legend]

18 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

If StudioCanal don't fight this, then all their other rights will be up for grabs - the arguement should they try to fight a copyright infringement in the future would be that they had allowed these things to slide in the past. Volkswagen years ago, set the lawyers on every aftermarket producer sticking their logo on anything for exactly the same reason. It's why buying a spare wheel cover for your camper van with the logo on is more difficult than it was 20 years ago. It wasn't that they wanted to spend money firing off cease and desist letters to people making stuff in sheds, it's that there was a bigger picture to consider.

 

Here, Rapido's position would be that they had paid for a licence and received nothing for their money. They might even argue that without the licence, they wouldn't have started work on the range itself. At the very least, SC would have to refund the licence money, but they could be chased for more. As you can see, Rapido don't seem to be taking this lightly.

 

Yes agree Phil . As I said I just find it incredible that a company, Hornby, that knows about Licenses would embark on this unless they had a way out of it .   But possibly not !

[Legend]

5 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

As much as we can say about the RMweb coverage I don't really think it quite relevant for what was a poorly presented announcement by Hornby.

 

I would say many of us got up early or stayed up, watched the video and have also looked at the Hornby website.

 

Rushed, full of mistakes, poorly photoshopped images, etc.

 

Looks to me like it was cobbled together in a few days on the back of a beermat. In the spirit of Mike Bassett England Manager type announcements I'm surprised we never got locomotives called Benson and Hedges being announced....  

 

What you also realise if you look at the official video is that he's reading the new catalogue !

[eldomtom2]

2 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

If StudioCanal don't fight this, then all their other rights will be up for grabs - the arguement should they try to fight a copyright infringement in the future would be that they had allowed these things to slide in the past. Volkswagen years ago, set the lawyers on every aftermarket producer sticking their logo on anything for exactly the same reason. It's why buying a spare wheel cover for your camper van with the logo on is more difficult than it was 20 years ago. It wasn't that they wanted to spend money firing off cease and desist letters to people making stuff in sheds, it's that there was a bigger picture to consider.

That is only true for trademarks, where there is a risk of genericization - see for instance sellotape and linoleum. Copyrights cannot be lost unless they are deliberately sold or given away.

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

 

What you also realise if you look at the official video is that he's reading the new catalogue !

Mere detail, detail, detail,  detail. (Although as we've all been told on tv screens recently - ad infinitum - Hornby are well aware that they need to get the detail right because that is what their customers want  )

[acg5324]

5 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

Has the Hornby 2022 catalogue been distributed yet? I haven't seen one yet in the usual stockists.

Been out since last midweek along with the Airfix and Scalextric catalogues. Monk Bar Modelshop got theirs on Wednesday.

[PhilJ W]

I did find a catalogue, the last one in my local Tess Coes. Looking through it  it seems that the 'Trains on films' is a bit of a rush job and that leaves the suspicion their Lion model has not left the drawing board yet. Are they biding their time to see what pans out? If that is the case they will have to put in the effort to put the models in the shops by this time next year.  

[MrTea]

5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Rushed, full of mistakes, poorly photoshopped images, etc.

 

Looks to me like it was cobbled together in a few days on the back of a beermat.

Couldn’t agree more. 
 

From what I’ve seen, it doesn’t look like the market leader on top of their game. Made especially worse by the fact that they’ve had a year to prepare since the last range announcement. 
 

Combine this with some of the rushed, poor quality new releases and examples of re-runs where the decoration is noticeably poorer than the previous releases of the same items.
 

It looks to me like the team is under pressure and that they’re scared of the competition. 

[Ozexpatriate]

11 hours ago, Philip Jackson said:

the corridors are much wider ...

We were talking about 4920 Dumbleton Hall. I don't think it has any corridors.

 

The Diagonally/Kings Cross to Hogsmeade "Hogwarts Express" ride is a funicular cableway.

 

There is also (or at least was before the ride was built) a static replica of Alton Hall in the Hogsmeade area.

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Ozexpatriate

[eldomtom2]

7 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

The Diagonally/Kings Cross to Hogsmeade "Hogwarts Express" ride is a funicular cableway.

Interesting to note that the theme park designers built a facade based on the actual King's Cross, when the HP films always used St Pancras for exterior shots.

[Bucoops]

32 minutes ago, eldomtom2 said:

Interesting to note that the theme park designers built a facade based on the actual King's Cross, when the HP films always used St Pancras for exterior shots.

 

And if I recall correctly Rowling wrote Kings Cross but was picturing Euston.

 

edit: https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryMagazine/DestinationsUK/Harry-Potter-Platform-9-Three-Quarters/

Edited January 17, 2022 by Bucoops
Ooh I did recall correctly.

[Ozexpatriate]

7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I too get the feeling that there is less overall interest than last year.

For what it is worth, I had completely forgotten that there were even new announcements - except for an email from Hornby and an oblique mention elsewhere on RMweb, which is suggestive of my interest level.

 

And even though there are a handful of items that do interest me sufficiently to preorder I have found them completely unavailable at my preferred (mail order*) retailer.

 

* By necessity.

[Compound2632]

I've a suspicion the choice of Kings Cross has as much to do with the name as the location.

[Chameleon]

On 14/01/2022 at 08:04, Kris said:

Hornby have already worked with Disney in the creation of Starwars products in the creation of several Scalextric sets. They have also worked with MGM to create James Bond related products. As newer films these franchises have far greater IP in place than many older films. They have the greater protection because film makers have become far more savvy in protecting their products and understand the value attached to merchandising (something that has risen vastly over the years). 

The point there is they worked with the studios and had permission. My point was, had they produced those models WITHOT getting prior agreement, they would have been slapped with a cease and desist order before the models ever hit the shelves. This is pretty much what they are trying to do here. 

[Ozexpatriate]

2 hours ago, eldomtom2 said:

Interesting to note that the theme park designers built a facade based on the actual King's Cross, when the HP films always used St Pancras for exterior shots.

2 hours ago, Bucoops said:

And if I recall correctly Rowling wrote Kings Cross but was picturing Euston.

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I've a suspicion the choice of Kings Cross has as much to do with the name as the location.

Presumably some combination of a location scout and the director is responsible for the St. Pancras exteriors as looking more gothic. It's been a long time since I watched the films but my recollection suggests that the first exterior shot of St. Pancras was in the second movie - ... & The Chamber of Secrets. (Could be wrong there.)

 

Then there is all the back and forth over the choice of Olton Hall for the locomotive in the first place. Wikipedia suggests:

Quote

To promote the fourth Harry Potter book, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, Southern Railway West Country Class locomotive 34027 Taw Valley was temporarily repainted and renamed. However, it was rejected by film director Chris Columbus as looking "too modern" for the film[citation needed], but it carried the name and colour for some months afterwards.

Given the surfeit of Halls, the Hall that thought it was a Castle worked out in the end. I don't believe the first book specified much beyond "a scarlet steam engine"*, though somewhere in the backstory there are references to the Ministry of Magic acquiring a locomotive from Crewe in 1830 by the use of concealment charms.

 

* I did check the first reference.

 

Of course, we're a bit  though I could argue that the Hogwarts Express is legitimately a "train on film" and Hornby is a licensee though probably not for both at the same time.

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Ozexpatriate
Spelling

[Ozexpatriate]

Unrelated to Hornby, Rapido UK or Studio Canal, it is interesting just how arcane lawsuits over IP protection can be, even in the context of a model.

 

As an example, apparently a fashion designer is suing The LEGO Group for an interpretation of one of his coats appearing on a minifigure.

 

Fashion designer sues Lego over leather jacket worn by toy Antoni on 'Queer Eye' set

 

Now LEGO is very careful over their licensing. The argument appears to be predicated on Netflix not securing permission from the designer for the performer to appear in his coat on the show, rather than any oversight by The LEGO Group.

 

LEGO's interpretation "inspired by the original" and not an exact copy is visible in the box art.

 

Edited January 17, 2022 by Ozexpatriate
Added "inspired by the original"

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, eldomtom2 said:

Interesting to note that the theme park designers built a facade based on the actual King's Cross, when the HP films always used St Pancras for exterior shots.

But the real 9¾ is at Kings Cross........

https://www.kingscross.co.uk/harry-potters-platform-9-34