Youtube Rapido Announcement 07.30 - The Cat is Amongst the Pigeons

[ruggedpeak]

I'd rather Rapido (and indeed all 'manufacturers') concentrated on the stuff announced already like the Realtrack 142.

 

I'm sure Simon K is taking being referred to as a "pigeon" very well...let's hope the TV crew are there on Monday morning! No doubt a watered down re-enactment of a loco being thrown through a PC monitor in the next series

 

Of course if manufacturers were really clever they'd get the stock into shops so we could all be camping overnight outside our [local] model shop a la Apple products in the olden days. Although at this time of year not all of the customer demographic might make it......

[ndg910]

This thread and the similar one on the Hornby section make interesting reading. Everyone is talking about what Rapido are doing which for them is generating great advertising. Even if it’s a new branded stress ball or biro or something that normally doesn’t create many column inches or posts from Rapido, the exposure and brand awareness is making them be noticed. Equally Hornby are giving the impression of running scared. By breaking their embargo early implies to me that they are worried one of their flagship announcements is at risk. A better marketing ploy might have been to rise above the Rapido teasing or even poke fun at Rapido in reply in a similar way that Aldi have been doing with M&S and the Colin the Caterpillar row. As it stands Rapido are stealing the limelight and Hornby have been sucked in to Rapido’s trap and Rapido have won the first round. 
 

Itmay still all turn out to be a damp squib but as it stands I am sure a glitzy new announcement or spoiler from Rapido will be talked about longer by us the consumers instead of the mundane new livery rerun of yet another Loco, coach or wagon. I for one am interested in what will happen on Monday in the way I get excited about Bachmann’s new announcement format, certainly the last few Hornby announcements have crept up on me without too much excitement in advance. Yes I have a wish list but I see my needs being more likely to be created by someone other than Hornby. 

[rembrow]

15 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said:

 

 

I'm sure Simon K is taking being referred to as a "pigeon" very well...let's hope the TV crew are there on Monday morning! No doubt a watered down re-enactment of a loco being thrown through a PC monitor in the next series

 

Even better, if during filming of a sleepy Simon, doing a socially distanced presentation of the Hornby 2022/23/24 range, in the visitor centre, with Montana prompting, a DPD deliverer (other delivery company's are available) arrives with a boxed Rapido HST sample - next scene, Simon banging head against loco cylinder in storage facility.

[Katie87006]

10 minutes ago, ndg910 said:

Equally Hornby are giving the impression of running scared. By breaking their embargo early implies to me that they are worried one of their flagship announcements is at risk.

 

Hornby lose either way. If their announcement comes after rapido, they'll be blamed for duplicating. Hornby is often blamed for duplicating the terrier to scare off rails. But the Hornby terrier was originally an oxford diecast project anyway (as I read in one of the mags)

[wombatofludham]

I wonder if it's a 14xx to build on the "Tittyfield Wonderbra" developments.  It is something a lot of people seem to think is overdue (not me, I don't need a baby kettle* and Dolgellau already has a nice one bought s/h permanently coupled to an autocoach and fitted with noise and lights which the grockles adore) and if given the Hatton's one didn't go too well, probably worth a punt by someone who can make a good job of it.


*Kettle (noun): An affectionate, (if "purile") term used by railway enthusiasts since at least the 1960s to describe steam locos, in the same vein as "fart carts" for dmus, "duffs" for Class 47s, "stabiliser rail" for the 3rd rail and "whistling wardrobes" for Class 20s, or even "streaks" for A4s, and "Spamcans" for Bullied Pacifics.  Anyone who thinks giving "purile" nicknames to motive power or railway items is somehow beneath them needs to learn that a hobby is meant to be fun and such nomenclature has been around for decades.  Rapido's quirky sense of fun is just part of a long tradition of not taking the hobby to religious levels of devotion and piousness.

[rembrow]

25 minutes ago, Katie87006 said:

 

Hornby lose either way. If their announcement comes after rapido, they'll be blamed for duplicating. Hornby is often blamed for duplicating the terrier to scare off rails. But the Hornby terrier was originally an oxford diecast project anyway (as I read in one of the mags)

What was said at the time, was that Hornby activated a stalled Terrier proposed model, due to the Dapol/Rails announcement, as according to Simon Kohler, they saw the Terrier as historically, a Hornby model. Trouble is, that was a false narrative, as although Hornby had produced Terrier models for more than 20 years, the model's history was not Hornby. It was developed and produced in the 1980s by Dapol, who sold the tools, with others, to Hornby, in the 1990s, so if any business could claim historical rights, it was Dapol.

Edited January 8, 2022 by rembrow

[gwrrob]

1 hour ago, County of Yorkshire said:

Read also:

 

GWR 94XX

Warflat  

Bulleid Coaches

 

CoY

 

Very much so but well worth the wait when they did finally arrive.

[Dunsignalling]

58 minutes ago, rembrow said:

What was said at the time, was that Hornby activated a stalled Terrier proposed model, due to the Dapol/Rails announcement, as according to Simon Kohler, they saw the Terrier as historically, a Hornby model. Trouble is, that was a false narrative, as although Hornby had produced Terrier models for more than 20 years, the model's history was not Hornby. It was developed and produced in the 1980s by Dapol, who sold the tools, with others, to Hornby, in the 1990s, so if any business could claim historical rights, it was Dapol.

Agreed, but if you take the top off the newest "Hornby" Terriers, what's inside doesn't bear much of a "family resemblance" to other recent output.

 

Stalled, maybe, but not at Margate, IMHO.

 

John

[Vistisen]

 

OK let us suppose Hornby didn't dare duplicate anything over the last few years

We would have missed:

·     a Class 71 that could move above a snail’s pace.

·     a 14xx that could move at all.

·     a king that actually exists

If they announce something early, they are blocking the market and stopping others from making hypothetically better models. If they keep them under wraps until they are almost ready to arrive, they are desperately sabotaging their poor competitors. If they move their previously announced embargo timing, they are ‘bullies entering the playground’. But when a competitor decides to have a release a release video a couple of hours before the long-known time, then they are ‘cheeky chaps’.

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, rembrow said:

What was said at the time, was that Hornby activated a stalled Terrier proposed model, due to the Dapol/Rails announcement, as according to Simon Kohler, they saw the Terrier as historically, a Hornby model. Trouble is, that was a false narrative, as although Hornby had produced Terrier models for more than 20 years, the model's history was not Hornby. It was developed and produced in the 1980s by Dapol, who sold the tools, with others, to Hornby, in the 1990s, so if any business could claim historical rights, it was Dapol.

Who produced a successor model for Rails.  So Dapol made an updated successor to their original model and Hornby used somebody else's development as a successor to an earlier model which they had bought from somebody else.  If anybody could claim it as 'their model' that would surely have to be K's whose kit was first in the 4mm field followed by Dapol with the first r-t-r example (and a successor) followed most recently by Oxford's design badge engineered into a Hornby box.

[rembrow]

11 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Who produced a successor model for Rails.  So Dapol made an updated successor to their original model and Hornby used somebody else's development as a successor to an earlier model which they had bought from somebody else.  If anybody could claim it as 'their model' that would surely have to be K's whose kit was first in the 4mm field followed by Dapol with the first r-t-r example (and a successor) followed most recently by Oxford's design badge engineered into a Hornby box.

Careful Mike, if you follow that analogy  then MTK is the daddy of all diesel and electric.

[Covkid]

19 hours ago, GWR-fan said:

 Maybe not pigeons but perhaps letting the cat out of the bag.

Or even Catfish ?  A much needed ballast hopper very popular on the LMR 

 

Built  1955-1961

Numbers DB983000-DB983309, DB983376-DB983920, DB992531-DB993634

14ft wheelbase, 22ft 6in over headstocks

 

What more can I say ?

[Chris89]

Look forward to what ever the announcement may be. Most likely a normal version for Lion?

 

To get silly, New HST power cars all singing and dancing or Jason has purchased a HST Powercar and exporting to Canada somehow.

[Covkid]

48 minutes ago, Vistisen said:

 

OK let us suppose Hornby didn't dare duplicate anything over the last few years

We would have missed:

·     a Class 71 that could move above a snail’s pace.

·     a 14xx that could move at all.

·     a king that actually exists

If they announce something early, they are blocking the market and stopping others from making hypothetically better models. If they keep them under wraps until they are almost ready to arrive, they are desperately sabotaging their poor competitors. If they move their previously announced embargo timing, they are ‘bullies entering the playground’. But when a competitor decides to have a release a release video a couple of hours before the long-known time, then they are ‘cheeky chaps’.

 

Could you add the Q6 to that list ?

[TheSignalEngineer]

17 minutes ago, Covkid said:

Or even Catfish ?  A much needed ballast hopper very popular on the LMR 

 

I'm fully expecting one of those, just finishing off three from kits.

Edited January 8, 2022 by TheSignalEngineer

[dibber25]

32 minutes ago, rembrow said:

Careful Mike, if you follow that analogy  then MTK is the daddy of all diesel and electric.

Not ALL, surely? Hornby-Dublo: Class 20 and Deltic, and Co-Bo, none of which Hornby has actually staked a claim to. But the thread is about Rapido's announcement which clearly says it's a Titfield statement, so why all the discussion about new HSTs etc? 

[blueeighties]

What an absolute load of playground bo#l@%ks.

 

So glad I moved to 7mm :-)

[rembrow]

24 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

Not ALL, surely? Hornby-Dublo: Class 20 and Deltic, and Co-Bo, none of which Hornby has actually staked a claim to. But the thread is about Rapido's announcement which clearly says it's a Titfield statement, so why all the discussion about new HSTs etc? 

Not sure where it's been stated as a link to Titfield Thunderbolt. The yoy tube flyer just gives the date and time of the video going live, with the header 'cat among the pigeons'. It's been assumed that as the date and time is 2.5 hrs before Hornby's annual product announcement and Hornby has now moved tbst announcement forward, that there is a link to a potential Hornby product to be announced. As Hornby, in their recent programme, had an episode devoted to the urgent design of a replacement HST, as another model maker was working on such a model, the HST has been suggested as tbe model of interest that led to Hornby moving tbeir announcement to be before Rapidos. It may also be a product linked to Titfield, although both have already announced a Lion model.

 

[romley midland]

46 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

That's only because they don't announce new products until they're virtually on the boat being delivered, there's no evidence the actual development process is any quicker.

Who said anything about the development process being quicker? 

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, blueeighties said:

What an absolute load of playground bo#l@%ks.

 

So glad I moved to 7mm :-)

Actually it could turn out to be something rather serious.  Rapido have a licence from Studio Canal to produce various Titfield Thunderbolt items decorated in the way in which they appear in the film and probably to use some publicity designs akin to those used for the film.  They will have paid good money to obtain those licences and I suspect that Studio Canal would be far from happy to be left with egg on their face if 'somebody else' comes out with something called the Totfield Firebolt which has various remarkable similarities to the items for which they have just charged somebody else a licence fee.

 

We know that Hornby missed out on a licencing deal, we know that they rushed into press an announcement about their version of Lion, and we might well expect that one of the best marketing opportunities for that model is by exploiting the Titfield connection - which has been sold to somebody else.   So what do Hornby now do - give up and go away but produce their version of Lion to sell in a non Titfield market?  Or do they try to fiddle their way round the Titfield connection in a sort  'spirit of' a preserved branchline train using a very old engine,  or do they sail really close to the wind and use something else from the Titfield film  as well as Lion (in their case rechristened Tiger or some such name)?

 

Don't forget that Hornby need sales income and having announced their version of Lion if they are going to spend any development money on it their men in grey suits will want to see maximum return on the investment.  So having announced it someone in Hornby might not have much choice about how to market it to  maximum effect.   And that might be where those French fishing boats or,  more likely, other men in grey suits could become the biggest news of Hornby's 2022 releases.   On the other hand maybe Rapido and Studio Canal need have no worries at all but it's no doubt wise to take precautions. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by The Stationmaster
correct a spelling mistook (canal does begin with a c)

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, Katie87006 said:

My bet is on a new oo scale hst and mk3 coaches.

 

The "cat is among the pigeons" statement is probably in response to the "cat is out of the bag" announcement that Hornby made when they announced their intentions to produce Lion

Everyones obsessed on a Rapido HST.. other manufacturers are available.

 

its a big risk for a new entrant to go all in on a HST… thats a lot of tooling to do the various MK3’s… who ever is doing a HST properly is going to need very deep pockets… power cars themselves have at least a 9 different body combinations of toolings for power cars.. just that I can think of right there.. excluding 41000/1 and its coaches.

 

The mk3’s have a variety too, its not just TGS, TF, TF and Buffet, theres variations.

Even Hornby or Oxford havent still fully grasped the mk3 alone… if your going to di mk3’s then it should be considered for lhcs too.. which adds more cost in development.

 

A HST is a much bigger investment than the all the TPE/CS mk5’s and 92 for instance.

Ive never really associated Rapido with risk taking, or speculative production… a pre-sales HST is a big ask off a new developing customer base.

 

it could just be “power cars” and I could see why Rapido might be attracted to that.. though leaving the mk3’s behind is still a bit retrograde.. its the mk3’s more than the power cars that need upgrading imo.

 

We might be surprised who does it, if its really a “thing” at all, but i’m thinking bigger than smaller if it is…but Its still a risk in the current pricing / market.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by adb968008

[AY Mod]

38 minutes ago, rembrow said:

Not sure where it's been stated as a link to Titfield Thunderbolt. The yoy tube flyer just gives the date and time of the video going live, with the header 'cat among the pigeons'

 

Look at the screenshot here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/169113-hornby-2022-range/&do=findComment&comment=4700245

 

[rembrow]

24 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Look at the screenshot here https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/169113-Hornby-2022-range/&do=findComment&comment=4700245

 

Interesting, I'd looked at the You Tube Rapido page about 2 hrs ago and again after your info above and there is no heading or link to Titfield Thunderbolt showing, so wonder if they have removed it. I did a search on You Tube for 'Rapido titfield thunderbolt' and it identified this video link.

[autocoach]

Rapido announcing new sprung dynamically balanced chassis 4 mm malachite West Country with original 1945 cab....(pre BOB's your uncle)...pulls 20 coaches without rubber/plastic tired drivers... (...Oh that does have a double meaning.)

 

[AY Mod]

16 minutes ago, rembrow said:

wonder if they have removed it.

 

It looks like the title may have been revised.