Cambrian kits

[The Johnster]

Many years since I built one of these, and if memory serves it presneted no particular problems, but but my memory may not be serving me partiucularly well.  As I've decided that I want some more mineral wagons to give my colliery engines something to play with, I bought a Cambrian 7-plank 1923 RCH and made it yesterday.  I was unimpressed by the fragility of major parts, which are too thin, but it went together well enough.  Problem arose today when I tried to fit wheels to it; Bachmann as it happens.  Even without fitting bearings, there is nowhere near enough room between the axleboxes to fit them, and if I am to get the wagon to roll, I am going to have to drill through the axleboxes and fit false axlebox covers and hope it doesn't look too bad.  I have correctly aligned the solebars to the marker pips on the wagon floor, and postiioned the inner frames that hold the W irons and the axleboxes hard up against them as per the instructions, but even before try-fitting it looked as if there was not sufficient width. 

 

The inner faces of the axleboxes and the W irons clear the wheels, but a very much shorter axle than normal would be needed to allow the axles to turn, so firmly are the pinpoint ends of the axles gripped and so far are the axleboxes splayed outwards.  What I have at the moment is a static model, and I won't be buying any more Cambrians!  The new minerals will come from the Parkside range.

[Fat Controller]

I don't know when you bought this wagon, but for the last decade or so, they've retooled many of their underframe and bogies, so that they are 'one piece' mouldings.

[Pete the Elaner]

I haven't bought any Cambrians for a while. I don't remember them being particularly bad, but I do remember Parkside's being much better: crisper moulding with less flash to cut away, they fir a little better & they came with a decent set of wheels.

[Ian Fisher]

So you built the wagon and did not try to dry fit the wheels?

 

What size have you got between W irons?

Edited January 7, 2022 by Ian Fisher

[Mark Forrest]

While some of the earlier Cambrian kits could be a little challenging the more recent and retooled kits generally go together very well.  The thinness of parts that you mention probably puts them closer to scale thickness than some of the alternatives.

 

My personal preference is to replace most of what goes below/between the solebars with etched or cast components, so can't really comment on the axle length issue  - although if I am building a rigid underframe experience has taught me to dry assemble the components to check they fit due to variability in axle length,  bearing depth and axleguard thickness - unfortunately this advice probably isn't much use to you at this stage.

 

If there is a choice between a Parkside and a Cambrian, I'll still pick the Parkside over the Cambrian; but as there is little overlap between the ranges I don't hesitate to build a Cambrian kit where their offering suits the prototype I'm looking for.

[Steamport Southport]

Try Gibsons.

 

Hornby and Bachmann wheels are too big and won't fit wagon kits. I know as I tried during the great wheel shortage during lockdown. Bought a couple of packs of each as I needed some split spoke wheels.

 

In the end I nicked some Gibsons from other kits. Must replace them at some point.

 

 

Jason

[ikcdab]

I also recommend using the Gibson's that are much superior.

I like both ranges of kits, but prefer the Parkside one because they come with wheels and transfers.  It just makes it much easier.

Ian

Edited January 7, 2022 by ikcdab

[Phil Traxson]

Another plus point of using Gibson wheels is that if you order direct from them you can specify 26mm axle length, which is pretty much the standard 00 axle, or shorter 24.5mm equivalent to the old Lima axle length.

 

Phil T.

[jwealleans]

Dry fitting the wheels has been mentioned upthread.   I always do this especially on older kits like the Cambrian (and Ian Kirk) minerals.   You may find you have to space the solebars out more than the manufacturer intended to allow for your chosen wheelsets.  I almost always use Hornby and find they can be made to fit and run fine.  

 

Having worked out where the solebars need to be, I generally fit one and allow it to set solid then use it to brace the other against.   It's generally a mistake to try to fit both at the same time with a wheelset in between. 

 

If you want variety in your mineral wagons, whether steel or timber, you can't do without some Cambrian products.  

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

I find on any plastic kit, a Bill Bedford axle spacing jig (BBE021) is invaluable, it will enable the correct solebar placement, and by default the ability to fit brass top hats in the right place.

Never rely on manufacturers instructions and guidelines!

 

Mike.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Enterprisingwestern
Reference inserted.

[cctransuk]

On 07/01/2022 at 22:27, The Johnster said:

Many years since I built one of these, and if memory serves it presneted no particular problems, but but my memory may not be serving me partiucularly well.  As I've decided that I want some more mineral wagons to give my colliery engines something to play with, I bought a Cambrian 7-plank 1923 RCH and made it yesterday.  I was unimpressed by the fragility of major parts, which are too thin, but it went together well enough.  Problem arose today when I tried to fit wheels to it; Bachmann as it happens.  Even without fitting bearings, there is nowhere near enough room between the axleboxes to fit them, and if I am to get the wagon to roll, I am going to have to drill through the axleboxes and fit false axlebox covers and hope it doesn't look too bad.  I have correctly aligned the solebars to the marker pips on the wagon floor, and postiioned the inner frames that hold the W irons and the axleboxes hard up against them as per the instructions, but even before try-fitting it looked as if there was not sufficient width. 

 

The inner faces of the axleboxes and the W irons clear the wheels, but a very much shorter axle than normal would be needed to allow the axles to turn, so firmly are the pinpoint ends of the axles gripped and so far are the axleboxes splayed outwards.  What I have at the moment is a static model, and I won't be buying any more Cambrians!  The new minerals will come from the Parkside range.

 

As others have pointed out, there are many variables in wagon kit building that mean that you cannot simply assume that your chosen combination of kit / wheels/ bearings will fit without trial fitting.

 

Your first mistake was to use Hornby wheels; neither these nor Bachmann wheels are the correct size; measure them if you don't believe me. Use Markits or Gibson; (there may be others); which are the correct size.

 

Follow the advice of previous posters - test, test, test.

 

If you avoid the Cambrian range in future, you will deprive yourself of a fantastic variety of wagons that are not available elsewhere, and which run superbly when properly assembled.

 

CJI.

[The Johnster]

Yes, good advice, sounds like Gibsons are the way to go,  I was feeling a bit grumpy when I wrote the original post.  The wagon looks the part, and it was a problem I was not expecting, my experience of Parksides being that you have to do everything you can to ensure that the solebar/W iron pieces are affixed* to the floor as far in from the edge as the kit allows, as the recurring problem I have had with these using Bachmann wheels and brass bearings is that the wheels fit too loosely and drop out when you pick the wagon up!  I was a bit thrown by the Cambrian design of separate solebars and W-iron unit, the inner-mounting positiion of the W-iron unit reducing the space available for the axle.

 

I'll probably buy more Cambrians in time; I've built them in the past without problems.  The supplier was Peter's Spares eBay shop, so this may have been old stock not up to current spec.  The rest of my proposed new XPOs will probably be Parkys, as these include wheels, NEM coupling mounts, and transfers. 

 

 

*'Affix' was used back in the day when Airfix gave you writting stage-by-stage instructions instead of general advice and an exploded diagram.  I always wondered whether this was because the word was a bit like 'Airfix'...  Thinking about Airfix kits, these have proper locating ribs, holes, lugs and so on to ensure correct location and assembley, which Parksides, Cambrians, Five79s etc, don't, and I sometimes wonder why this is.  It would make assembly much easier especially for less experienced modellers.

 

Seems to me that there are two reasons for supplying rolling stock in kit form, one (most commonly), to reduce cost and retail price by passing the assmbly on to the customer, and two, to provide as much detail as possible and instruct/educate the builder as to how the original item was designed and built.  It the kit is the first type, it would be reasonable for the customer to expect the kit designer to make his life as easy as possible, and I would contend that nobody equals Kitmaster/Airfix/Dapol/Kitmaster again in this respect, and though they've been around since god was in short trousers, are still IMHO the best in respect of moving on from RTR as a modeller.  Having built a few, you are reasonably competent to tackle Parkside etc.  I probably built my first, a Presflo IIRC, when I was about 10 or 11 years old and got it to run reasonably well.  No idea how many steel minerals I've built over the years because nobody made an RTR with the right chassis, but I have none now,

[Mallard60022]

On 07/01/2022 at 22:27, The Johnster said:

Many years since I built one of these, and if memory serves it presneted no particular problems, but but my memory may not be serving me partiucularly well.  As I've decided that I want some more mineral wagons to give my colliery engines something to play with, I bought a Cambrian 7-plank 1923 RCH and made it yesterday.  I was unimpressed by the fragility of major parts, which are too thin, but it went together well enough.  Problem arose today when I tried to fit wheels to it; Bachmann as it happens.  Even without fitting bearings, there is nowhere near enough room between the axleboxes to fit them, and if I am to get the wagon to roll, I am going to have to drill through the axleboxes and fit false axlebox covers and hope it doesn't look too bad.  I have correctly aligned the solebars to the marker pips on the wagon floor, and positioned the inner frames that hold the W irons and the axleboxes hard up against them as per the instructions, but even before try-fitting it looked as if there was not sufficient width. 

 

The inner faces of the axleboxes and the W irons clear the wheels, but a very much shorter axle than normal would be needed to allow the axles to turn, so firmly are the pinpoint ends of the axles gripped and so far are the axleboxes splayed outwards.  What I have at the moment is a static model, and I won't be buying any more Cambrians!  The new minerals will come from the Parkside range.

If it is of any use I have built loads of Plassi wagons during Covid, including Many Cambrians. Deffo Gibsons preferred, but check the rollability (wobble)! I have used other makes and as others have said, I found that on construction I needed to adjust the width placement of the Solebars from what appears to be the 'correct' position. More often needed to be wider. In fact now I have the axles ready when I do the UF/Solebars and adjust as I apply the Solvent, which as you know, allows adjustment for quite some time. I have not heard of the Bedford gadget mentioned; sounds useful now I have finished almost all stock I require!

Occasionally I have had to 'unsolvent' a Bar or both Bars to adjust yet again. I still forget if there is a period between builds but invariably Gibsons seem to be OK for width, but I do have to adjust Gauge and rollability (wobble).Cheers matey.

Phil

Edited January 14, 2022 by Mallard60022
Spillin yet agoin

[Mallard60022]

*'Affix' was used back in the day when Airfix gave you writting stage-by-stage instructions instead of general advice and an exploded diagram.  I always wondered whether this was because the word was a bit like 'Airfix'...  Thinking about Airfix kits, these have proper locating ribs, holes, lugs and so on to ensure correct location and assembley, which Parksides, Cambrians, Five79s etc, don't, and I sometimes wonder why this is.  It would make assembly much easier especially for less experienced modellers.

 

 

 

Made for train set track and wheels etc., not (say) EM etc.

P

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Personally I find kits and their instructions more of a scratch aid in many cases, (exceptions do apply), and alter/amend/adjust as and when necessary.

 

Mike.

[The Johnster]

8 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

If it is of any use I have built loads of Plassi wagons during Covid, including Many Cambrians. Deffo Gibsons preferred, but check the rollability (wobble)! I have used other makes and as others have said, I found that on construction I needed to adjust the width placement of the Solebars from what appears to be the 'correct' position. More often needed to be wider. In fact now I have the axles ready when I do the UF/Solebars and adjust as I apply the Solvent, which as you know, allows adjustment for quite some time. I have not heard of the Bedford gadget mentioned; sounds useful now I have finished almost all stock I require!

Occasionally I have had to 'unsolvent' a Bar or both Bars to adjust yet again. I still forget if there is a period between builds but invariably Gibsons seem to be OK for width, but I do have to adjust Gauge and rollability (wobble).Cheers matey.

Phil

 

Thanks for this, Phil; sensible practical advice, the real skinny.  I'll procure a supply of Gibsons and fit the W irons to them by wiggling them about before the glue goes off.  I'm fairly happy that I built my kit square and level, with the aid of a piece of glass to sit the wheels on and various jiggery made up out of Lego bricks.  I'll be using Baccy NEM straight short couplings mounted in Parky PA34 blocks, and replacing the plastic buffers.  I know from experience that Gibson wheelsets just drop out of Parkside kits, so they should be about right for this...

[The Johnster]

On 14/01/2022 at 12:20, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Personally I find kits and their instructions more of a scratch aid in many cases, (exceptions do apply), and alter/amend/adjust as and when necessary.

 

Mike.

 

ISTR that the comprehensive written Airfix instructions, peerless in conjuntion with the exploded diagram, were done away with at about the time that the company entered the international market, and the current sort of diagrammatic coded pictorial instructions were used to save the cost of printing the 'proper' instructions in a variety of languages.  Writing instructions that can be understood by people other than the designer of the kit, who should be locked on an island far far away while they are compiled to prevent his having any input whatsoever (because he knows how to put it together properly and can't quite fully understand why what is obvious to him is a complete mystery to everybody else) is an arcane and eldritch dark art, and we've all encountered instructions that actually prevent you putting it together properly...

 

The binning of the written instructions seems, according to the confused mess that passes for a memory in the shattered remnants of that once fine instument, my brain, to have happened at about the same time as a rule, from the EU I think, prevented the artwork on the box (ariel dogfights, sea battles, locomotives thundering along in a blur (even pugs), all action never a dull moment play the Dick Barton theme, being used and having to be replaced with a photograph of a completed model with a caption saying that it was a photograph of a completed model, no sh&t, sherlock.

[cheesysmith]

For the kit already built look for someone who will provide the wheels you want on the of Lima axle length. 

 

Useful piece of kit to have when building kits is some loom bands. Put around the axlebox they hold them just right, tight enough for no slack but loose enough for free running.

 

This from the man using Cambrian bodies with parkside underframe to get a rebuilt 16 ton mineral.