RMweb Premium ERIC ALLTORQUE Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2022 The best thing to do is order the Rapido one and leave the Hornby items on there shelving,its made more enemys than friends lately it would seem. 9 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, peteskitchen said: Isnt a lot of what Hornby does now half arsed? Look at hush hush gate..... That's the real challenge the (increasingly numerous) "new boys" are posing to Hornby. Having "their" models nicked isn't going to be the problem, it'll be the competition making less, but making it better, and building reputations based on that. As a generalist "whole range" supplier, Hornby may not have the DNA to counter that kind of thing. As escalating prices widen the divide between the toy and model ends of their operation (not to mention Railroad Plus somewhere in the middle), it'll be interesting to see how Hornby manage to adapt and evolve. The only certain thing is that they will need to. John Edited January 10, 2022 by Dunsignalling 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Street Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 If I recall correctly, A previous offering on this film was done using a lowmac, toad, etc and an 0-4-2t. Airfix, I think So has H prior rights held within their organisation? They can certainly expand the loco range easily for additional loco stock. Could be wrong, and expect to be corrected, so.................... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MrTea Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) Regardless of the outcome of the legal arguments (if indeed there are to be any) can we at least agree that Rapido’s video this morning was: a) good use of the IP b) very well timed to generate maximum publicity c) typical Rapido in style Edited January 10, 2022 by MrTea Grammar 3 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirey33 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 4 hours ago, Coombe Vale said: Really? Are you sure? You would think so and I would have agreed with you four days ago. But that was before the case of the "Colston Four." Is there a statue of Simon Kohler? 1 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Street Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 56 minutes ago, wirey33 said: Is there a statue of Simon Kohler? Ask modelU. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, Sun Street said: Ask modelU. Not a good seller….. 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said: Two different films, two different licences. Legal complications with one needn't impinge on the other. Mind you, Hornby's take on "The Railway Children Return", as so far announced, looks rather half-arsed. John I guess what I mean is if Hornby are violating use of rights in one area, why should the rights holder continue to allow them to hold a license in another area. i.e. 'i will revoke my permission in area A if you continue to violate area B... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2022 12 minutes ago, G-BOAF said: I guess what I mean is if Hornby are violating use of rights in one area, why should the rights holder continue to allow them to hold a license in another area. i.e. 'i will revoke my permission in area A if you continue to violate area B... I'd agree, but that would probably need to be backed by the result of litigation over the area B violation. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) Just now, Dunsignalling said: I'd agree, but that would probably need to be backed by the result of litigation over the area B violation. John Fair point... Edited January 10, 2022 by G-BOAF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 3 hours ago, Din said: To be fair, so is the film by the looks of things! You can find a picture of the ghastly 4f here, seems Hornby has it spot on. https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/heritage-and-retro/heritage/actress-jenny-agutter-meets-keighley-and-worth-valley-railway-volunteers-who-drove-engines-in-the-1970-film-on-set-of-the-railway-children-sequel-3281976 Usual newspaper carelessness. Jenny Agutter played Bobbie Waterbury not Westbury. (CJL) 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said: I'd agree, but that would probably need to be backed by the result of litigation over the area B violation. John In a large organisation surely it's likely that 'current' and 'archive' licences would not necessarily be handled by the same person/department so one might be unaware of what was happening with the other. (CJL) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, wirey33 said: Is there a statue of Simon Kohler? It comes across that some individuals would rather it was a voodoo doll rather than a statue. 3 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium E100 Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2022 I wonder how many Rapido have sold today! I dare say with the outpouring and additional publicity they may end up selling more. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Coryton Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Oldddudders said: I feel, though, that these film tie-ins are aimed at a market other than the pure enthusiast. I can't be the only one who hasn't seen, and won't be seeing, any of these films since I am very wary of movies and trains. I saw the first few minutes of the Downton Abbey movie the other day. Set in the late 20s, the locomotive leaving KX looked awfully like a B1, dating from the early '40s. I wouldn't presume to know what sort of films you enjoy, but I have watched the Titfield Thunderbolt several times and very much enjoyed it. Not to be taken seriously of course, and as a comedy it isn't intended to be, but I didn't find it full of things that were needlessly and annoyingly wrong. And as it wasn't set in the past when it was made, it's not full of anachronisms. There are also some lovely, if brief, colour shots of regular main line trains of the period. Then again while I do spot railway errors in films set in the past it doesn't spoil my enjoyment of an otherwise good film unless they are egregiously wrong, and I'm aware that the pillar boxes are probably the wrong design for the period and the road markings aren't right and lots of things are wrong that I'm blissfully unaware of. Having said that, I have no interest in buying any models related to the Titfield Thunderbolt... Edited January 10, 2022 by Coryton 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OOgaugeJaf Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, E100 said: I wonder how many Rapido have sold today! I dare say with the outpouring and additional publicity they may end up selling more. Their product looks better and deserves the support. Edited January 10, 2022 by OOgaugeJaf 3 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aire Head Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 5 hours ago, Din said: To be fair, so is the film by the looks of things! You can find a picture of the ghastly 4f here, seems Hornby has it spot on. https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/heritage-and-retro/heritage/actress-jenny-agutter-meets-keighley-and-worth-valley-railway-volunteers-who-drove-engines-in-the-1970-film-on-set-of-the-railway-children-sequel-3281976 At least they didn't leave it plastered on BR emblems. And just wait until you see what they did with Bahamas... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 I wonder if Hornby is thinking of these models as, rather than a straight competitor to Rapido, but as a simple train-set that can be sold in bulk to supermarkets at Christmas? This has certainly been one of the major sources of income for the company over the years. The quirkiness and lack of country specificness would, no doubt, help with European sales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.C.L. 11 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 14 hours ago, Covkid said: Quick question, was Lion one as a class or were there others ? Lion/Thunderbolt owes much of her appearance to various rebuilds most notably being restored and tarted up/embellished in 1929/30 so today looks quite different to her original sisters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 8 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said: Hornby's shares are listed, so they'd have to make a takeover bid to do that. If I thought that was at all probable I'd buy some, since the price could be be expected to rise in such a situation. Unless things have changed Hornby is majority owned by Phoenix Asset Management, with at least 55.2% of the shares based on a quick search. So all anyone would need to do is make Phoenix an offer they liked. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.C.L. 11 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, billbedford said: simple train-set that can be sold in bulk to supermarkets at Christmas? No track & controller included, packaging not very bright or eye-catching, bit pricey for an impulse buy and imho the included models are probably too delicate for an average new to modelling supermarket customer. If the Hornby Rocket packs are anything to go by there would be a risk of high return rate especially when used by people with no previous experience of model railways. Far safer for supermarkets to stick to the classic 0-4-0+wagons type set. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post phil-b259 Posted January 11, 2022 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, MoY said: Boo Hoo Rapido. Hornby have been here longer than you have. Accept it and move on. Cant help thinking Rapido think they are the bees knees because everybody loves them. They have their own issues that have cheesed off modellers - like releasing the APT-E into the everyday range as it was specifically a model for the National Railway Museum - thus devaluing the original models. Hmm, so you use your first post on here a mere 10 minutes after you joined to post an ill-advised rant at Rapido Whats up afraid your 'exclusive' collector edition APTE is no longer quite the investment opportunity you thought it would be! Rapido got the license to the rights for Titfield FIRST! and strangely, in a country governed by the rule of law, respecting those rights is rather important. Hornby have, in todays announcements, appeared to infringe that and no amount of 'saving the consumer money' justifies such behaviour. Hornby are also using up manufacturing capacity duplicating a model - and the nature of the RTR market is such that direct duplication is usually avoided as it does NOT grow the market and merely ends up providing reduced revenue for both parties. 14 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWR-fan Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 15 minutes ago, MoY said: Boo Hoo Rapido. Hornby have been here longer than you have. Accept it and move on. Cant help thinking Rapido think they are the bees knees because everybody loves them. They have their own issues that have cheesed off modellers - like releasing the APT-E into the everyday range as it was specifically a model for the National Railway Museum - thus devaluing the original models. Perhaps in a law and order society one may like to think that everyone plays by the rules. Obviously you agree with Hornby most likely ripping off a trademark by not paying licencing rights to use a product. I am sure that the name "Thunderbolt" is protected under the copyright of the movie. Hornby could have chosen to leave the loco named as "Lion" in the "inspired" train pack but chose to infringe on the copyright and avoid licencing fees to Studio-Canal. Similarly with the Bedford bus. If they released a generic Bedford OB bus with a generic destination blind then most likely no copyright infringement. It seems though that they replicated the destination blind from the movie. Surely a copyright infringement. As regards the rerelease of the APT-E, are you sure that it was solely a rail museum property release or was there a clause allowing the release of the model after a time period, say two years. Recall how Bachmann released the LMS/Midland Compound as a museum release and then rereleased it in a train pack with three Stannier coaches. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin smith Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Coombe Vale said: Nothing, I agree. I was simply making the point that nothing has a forgone conclusion. Then I can't help thinking you chose a bad example. Some would call that verdict an aberration and others would call it justice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 11, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, MoY said: Well First of all - its not a 'rant' so dont get too upset. duplication is everywhere in this hobby. Its my point of view and my opinion - nothing more or less. You have expressed yours and i have expressed mine. What is ill advised about that? Duplication is not 'everywhere' as you put it - on the contrary, apart from Hornby, manufacturers will usually not bring out a duplicate of something their rivals make unless the rival offering is older tooling and lacks the latest details / functions. This is because unlike cars, wearable tech, gaming consoles, milk, etc the size of the UK RTR model market is not huge and you won't suddenly bring more people into it by duplicating what someone else does. Thus duplication is usually reserved for things like the class 66 you have now effectively got three different levels of detailing (and thus pricing) enabling each manufacturer to have enough of a distinctive edge that direct competition is partially avoided. I said it was ill advised if you want people to respect your views then they are more likely to to so if you actually give some reasoning, not just a 'cause I says so'. Rapido, like other smaller manufacturers who have entered the hobby over the past few years have impressed many on RMweb with the content they have delivered so far, AND in this particular case have gone through all the necessary processes to get the rights for the Titfield stuff. They deserve respect and have the right not to be shat upon by a bigger company who is obviously still smarting from the fact it got caught out and trying to evade the protection IP rights normally provide. As for the APTE - yes it was originally sold as an exclusive but IIRC demand outstripped supply leading to calls for more to be made. Rapido and the NRM held off for a long time but last year concluded they could offer a further batch minus all the extra stuff that the original release came to cater for that demand. As others have said - nothing to stop Hornby producing a model of Lion, the well wagon or the brake van or even the bus and go head to head with Rapido (who are also producing non Titfield versions) but to be frank its a waste of valuable manufacturing slots (of which there are only a certain number available every year) that could be used for models of other things. 13 4 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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