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Hornby 2022 Black 5 new tooling


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As has already been stated 44755 has no visible valve gear so if Hornby have said they are modelling it then that’s slightly disingenuous. They have already modelled British Caprotti gear on 71000 of course but the low footplate Black 5s had continental Caprotti. As applied to these locos it used a single set of gear between the frames driving a cross shaft which activated the valves via cams. On the high footplate Black 5s the British version of the gear - as developed by Associated Locomotive Engineering in Worcester - there were two sets of gear independently driven by outside cranks and the cam boxes were turned through 90 degrees. No wonder the locos looked very different. 
 

It was educational walking along the platform at Minehead a few years ago when 73129 was visiting and watching the poppet valves being activated as she drifted along next to me. 

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On 12/01/2022 at 17:49, Downer said:

Interesting how little interest this thread is attracting.

I think there is some more interest in the pinned '2022 Steam'-topic. Black 5's (and 8F's) have been on quite some wishlists the last couple of years, although this is no guarantee for succes. We'll see when the first CAD's (and some more info) are available in the Engine Shed.

I for one haven't reacted to all the topics (Hornby's and other's) of which i bought or pre-ordered from, but I enjoy reading and following them. 

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19 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Personally I fancy a Caprotti 5, and 44755 could be a good Rule 1 engine as it was photographed at Bath Green Park when a Holbeck loco and in the West Midlands when at Edgeley. On that basis it probably visited most ex-LMS lines in England. It was also noted elsewhere at Scrborough. It carried a double chimney throughout its life

Indeed it was, photo by Hugh Ballantyne and it worked the midland lines around Bristol on a Temple Meads to Bournemouth west service into Bath Green park 25/7/59  - fits my criteria for a black 5 purchase. I’ve always been intrigued by the Caprotti black 5s.

 

p695401630-2.jpg

Edited by Downendian
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Been a Web exclusive, has anyone had any issues when trying to place a pre-order for 44755? 

 

I place an order on the site shortly after announcement, after putting in my detail i then, got a message confirming and  thanks for your order, stating an email would follow.

 

Around lunch time I received a notification from the Hornby site, asking "had I forgotten something?" stating that my order was still in my basket and waiting for checkout. So I tried again... Few hours later, same message... And no order info on my account in the site. Though I did screen shot my confirmation message this time. 

 

Naturally, I don't want two, but at the same time I want to know if my order has been placed. Has anyone else had this issue? 

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2 hours ago, Johan DC said:

I think there is some more interest in the pinned '2022 Steam'-topic. Black 5's (and 8F's) have been on quite some wishlists the last couple of years, although this is no guarantee for succes. 

 

Hello Johan DC and everyone on this thread.

 

The two types of Caprotti Black have been High Polling in all the 00 Wishlist Polls since 2013 (up to the last to run, which was in 2019).

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team)

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45 minutes ago, SDJR7F88 said:

Been a Web exclusive, has anyone had any issues when trying to place a pre-order for 44755? 

 

I place an order on the site shortly after announcement, after putting in my detail i then, got a message confirming and  thanks for your order, stating an email would follow.

 

Around lunch time I received a notification from the Hornby site, asking "had I forgotten something?" stating that my order was still in my basket and waiting for checkout. So I tried again... Few hours later, same message... And no order info on my account in the site. Though I did screen shot my confirmation message this time. 

 

Naturally, I don't want two, but at the same time I want to know if my order has been placed. Has anyone else had this issue? 

I had the same issue (message saying something was left in my basket) but if I log onto the Hornby site I do get to see my pre-order.

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I placed a preorder earlier after seeing the Bath Green park photo on rail photo prints. I had to reset my password and had to place in the basket around three times before I could checkout, but (I think) did so successfully and I had a confirmatory email from Hornby.

Neil 

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1 hour ago, LimboBrit said:

I had the same issue (message saying something was left in my basket) but if I log onto the Hornby site I do get to see my pre-order.

Interesting, where do you view your pre-orders? I guess thats under the Orders in the drop down menu? If so, it still not showing for me... Clearly something needs fixing

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Downendian said:

Callum,  my account (top right) > orders, I can see previous orders plus the Caprotti pre order 

Neil

Yeah, shows my last order as Humrbol paint back in September last year, so clearly not worked...

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17 hours ago, Downer said:


You’re missing the point. The only evidence we have is the number, so what if they’ve got that wrong. I’m not preordering a £230 model without some visual indication of what they’re actually doing.

To add to the mess, when you manage to find the Caprotti 5 near the end of the catalogue, it states that it entered service in 1934. Caprottis were, of course, all post-war. The great tradition of clangers in Hornby catalogues continues!

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23 hours ago, Downer said:


You’re missing the point. The only evidence we have is the number, so what if they’ve got that wrong. I’m not preordering a £230 model without some visual indication of what they’re actually doing.

If you pre-order the Caprotti version, which  incidentally is only available as a  Hornby web exclusive you have the option to cancel anyway if the product is not as described or indeed not what you expect.

A "Win Win" situation in my books which works.

Additionally, no money is taken from a prospective purchaser until the item arrives in stock, so giving those who wish to cancel the option.

Remember, no one's forcing you to pre-order !

Edited by Black 5 Bear
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36 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

If you pre-order the Caprotti version, which  incidentally is only available as a  Hornby web exclusive you have the option to cancel anyway if the product is not as described or indeed not what you expect.

A "Win Win" situation in my books which works.

Additionally, no money is taken from a prospective purchaser until the item arrives in stock, so giving those who which to cancel the option.

Remember, no one's forcing you to pre-order !


i do realise I could pre-order and, if necessary, cancel, but as posts above demonstrate, dealing with the Hornby website is a perilous undertaking at the best of times.  
 

Getting back to my main point, there were three types of Caprotti Black 5s - low footplate, high footplate, and usual footplate - and so far all we have to go on is a picture of a loco with the usual one bearing a number carried by the low one.

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10 hours ago, SDJR7F88 said:

Been a Web exclusive, has anyone had any issues when trying to place a pre-order for 44755? 

 

I place an order on the site shortly after announcement, after putting in my detail i then, got a message confirming and  thanks for your order, stating an email would follow.

 

Around lunch time I received a notification from the Hornby site, asking "had I forgotten something?" stating that my order was still in my basket and waiting for checkout. So I tried again... Few hours later, same message... And no order info on my account in the site. Though I did screen shot my confirmation message this time. 

 

Naturally, I don't want two, but at the same time I want to know if my order has been placed. Has anyone else had this issue? 

Placed my order today.

 

It was a bit of a fiddle setting up an account. I couldn't get password accepted at the beginning (have I perhaps previously opened one and forgotten?) but it was a piece of cake at the checkout stage.

 

Confirmation email received within five minutes.

 

John

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5 hours ago, Downer said:


i do realise I could pre-order and, if necessary, cancel, but as posts above demonstrate, dealing with the Hornby website is a perilous undertaking at the best of times.  
 

Getting back to my main point, there were three types of Caprotti Black 5s - low footplate, high footplate, and usual footplate - and so far all we have to go on is a picture of a loco with the usual one bearing a number carried by the low one.

All the pictures seem to be photoshopped images of the same preserved (non-Caprotti) loco!

 

If it transpires the model isn't going to be what I expect/want, I'll just cancel the order.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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7 hours ago, No Decorum said:

To add to the mess, when you manage to find the Caprotti 5 near the end of the catalogue, it states that it entered service in 1934. Caprottis were, of course, all post-war. The great tradition of clangers in Hornby catalogues continues!

That's nothing, it's been pointed out in another thread that Winston Churchill and 257 Squadron have been described as the work of one W.A. Stanier....

 

John

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On 10/01/2022 at 11:49, Dogmatix said:

According to the Hornby video, this model will feature kinematic close-coupling betwixt loco and tender, which I believe is a first in British OO RTR models, and about time too.

 

Agreed, this has been standard on continental models for decades and the British tender locomotives look bad without it 

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6 hours ago, Downer said:

Getting back to my main point, there were three types of Caprotti Black 5s - low footplate, high footplate, and usual footplate …


There were only two footplate heights for Black 5s fitted with Caprotti gear. 44738 to 44757 had low footplates with splashers; 44686/7 had high footplates. No Black 5 with Caprotti gear had the ‘usual’ height of footplate as on other Black 5s.

 

The illustration showing “44755” with a normal height footplate is of a Walschaerts valve gear engine, not a Caprotti.

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21 minutes ago, pH said:


There were only two footplate heights for Black 5s fitted with Caprotti gear. 44738 to 44757 had low footplates with splashers; 44686/7 had high footplates. No Black 5 with Caprotti gear had the ‘usual’ height of footplate as on other Black 5s.

 

The illustration showing “44755” with a normal height footplate is of a Walschaerts valve gear engine, not a Caprotti.

 

I stand corrected!

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14 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

That's nothing, it's been pointed out in another thread that Winston Churchill and 257 Squadron have been described as the work of one W.A. Stanier....

 

John

Some curious wheel arrangements have crept into the publicity material as well but so far, nothing as joyous as the 2-8-8T in an earlier catalogue. Sadly, I can’t find the photoshopped version created by someone here but that chap deserves one of the spare gongs which I believe are floating around at the moment due to alleged misdeeds.

 

The very worst clanger was a Princess illustrated with the union link the wrong way round. Not only was that not corrected on the following year’s catalogue, it even managed to reach the box artwork.

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On 14/01/2022 at 12:09, Downer said:

Getting back to my main point, there were three types of Caprotti Black 5s - low footplate, high footplate, and usual footplate - and so far all we have to go on is a picture of a loco with the usual one bearing a number carried by the low one.

 

44755 was one of the 1947 batch with a low footplate as I'm sure the product developers at Hornby are aware even if the intern preparing the 2022 announcement isn't.  Frankly I think this kind of knees bent running around behaviour adds little to discussion of new models and some posters here probably need to calm down.

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