Hornby 2022 Range - General discussion

[PaulRhB]

An email this morning from Derails saying the allocation Russian roulette, (my words, not theirs), has been addressed by significantly reducing the stock they can order but meaning you should in theory get it if you can find somewhere with an allocation. They also said certain items had sold out from phone calls yesterday so I think the numbers may have been quite small even for tier 1 shops on some items. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by PaulRhB

[dean20304]

Rather annoyed to see that a 31 I’ve been waiting for them to do for ages in super detail has been announced for the railroad range, 31454 in Fragonset/Intercity Swallow  Only thing that’s of interest to me in this announcement is them finally doing one of the older FGW liveries in super detail 

[SteamingWales]

Nothing in it for me but I wasn't really expecting to see anything that I want/need (looking for a new GWR 2251)

 

Overall comment is it seems a bit of a scaled back announcement compared to previous years and I highly doubt the new tooling announced will appear this year as we haven't even been shown CADs etc. yet.  For comparison the 2MTs, one of which I have on pre-order, won't be appearing until winter 2022 and they are fully tooled up with deco samples etc.

[Geep7]

With all this pre-order lottery going on (ie. with the Drax wagon), isn't it about time that perhaps that we adopted a model similar to that in the US? X company announces they are going to produce X model, and can make X, Y and Z variant in A, B and C colour schemes. Customers are given until a certain date to get their pre-orders in, at which point X company knows exactly how many they need to produce, and any variant / colour scheme which doesn't reach a pre-set limit, doesn't get made.

 

The only downside from this would be that X company may only want to accept the pre-orders direct. I'm not sure if this is what happens in the US though, as i've only ever ordered through Walthers.

 

On another point, I also have a bit of an interest in Spanish railways, and the 2022 Electrotren (Hornby International) range was announced this morning. OK, admittedly the Spanish model railway market is a lot smaller than the UK's, but it's interesting to note that the range only consists of 31 items, of which 13 are being produced in DC, DCC fitted and DCC sound variants across 2 model types. There is no new tooling this year, all being based on existing models.

 

It does make me wonder if Hornby are biting off more than they can chew, with all these new tooling announcements and livery variations, especially considering the backlog of models from previous years.

[Pmorgancym]

18 hours ago, SamThomas said:

The lad would need to go a long way thesesdays to find a model shop that was still open.

 

I also remember Yellow Pages. (& push button trimphones).

Do you have an R186 signal box?

 

Sorry lad tier 1 only, I've got some Beatles vans though if you like

 

God no

 

Yeah that's what most folks say

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

55 minutes ago, SteamingWales said:

Nothing in it for me but I wasn't really expecting to see anything that I want/need (looking for a new GWR 2251)

 

Overall comment is it seems a bit of a scaled back announcement compared to previous years and I highly doubt the new tooling announced will appear this year as we haven't even been shown CADs etc. yet.  For comparison the 2MTs, one of which I have on pre-order, won't be appearing until winter 2022 and they are fully tooled up with deco samples etc.

 

What's wrong with the Bachmann one?

 

It was a brand new model in 1998 and given a total make over in 2007. It has no connect to the old Mainline version.

 

 

Jason

[lapford34102]

1 hour ago, dean20304 said:

Rather annoyed to see that a 31 I’ve been waiting for them to do for ages in super detail has been announced for the railroad range, 31454 in Fragonset/Intercity Swallow 

Many would argue, with some justification, that the Lima based body of the Railroad version is better than the SD version. Get one and indulge in a bit of super detailing of your own which is what I expect to do :-)

 

Stu

[jonnyuk]

i think its a good range of product, some nice new flashy stuff, old staples making a return, a new HST addressing previous complaints, a modern EMU/DMU, stuff for the collectors that will bring in good revenue.

Something gone below the radar is the RailRoad range, lots of nice stuff in there, 37's, 67's,66's,31's, all for under £100.

 

Playtrains, brilliant product, yes they may noticed what someone else over English Channel  is doing and thought, great lets do a similar thing and theme it. Nothing wrong with this, i really hope it sells well and brings in youngsters to the hobby, any other UK manufacturer doing this? (Bachmann with Thomas it not the same thing). Did not think so.

 

if i had the deposable income i could see my self buying allot but as it stands, Drax wagons and shifting my pre-order of 2007 to the steam and sound version, also the 67 in colas and a couple of the 66's. Sign of the times i'm afraid (i'm getting back into slot cars which is looking a cheaper hobby right now, although cars have got to the £50 mark)

 

I think Hornby have to be given credit on a few fronts, introducing steam/lights/sound to a RTR steam loco. Some have said this is a gimmick, well on that count so are raising pantographs, spinning fans and tinted front windows, gimmicks seem to be ok there.
Moving to 21 pin, heard complaints about this as well, 21 pin does the job and is fine for other manufacturers, so why not Hornby, allows for day/night/cab lights, do you need anything else?

 

As i've said previous the trains on film range if done right could be a winner long term, i'm not glossing over titgate as thats another subject, as long as the law has not been broken. That's a capitalist economy for you.

 

They are trying to address the order allocation, yes shops are restricted, i've spoken to a few and both give the same story. At least they all know where they stand which is an improvement on the last few years.

 

if Hornby can't improve the QC then it does not matter what they do, its a slippery slope which they will go down head first, they have to sort this out and only time will tell.

 

I'd like to say i'm surprised by the sheer froth, negativity and abuse towards Hornby, but i'm not.
 

Edited January 11, 2022 by jonnyuk

[Pmorgancym]

20 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

i think its a good range of product, some nice new flashy stuff, old staples making a return, a new HST addressing previous complaints, a modern EMU/DMU, stuff for the collectors that will bring in good revenue.

Something gone below the radar is the RailRoad range, lots of nice stuff in there, 37's, 67's,66's,31's, all for under £100.

 

Playtrains, brilliant product, yes they may noticed what someone else over English Channel  is doing and thought, great lets do a similar thing and theme it. Nothing wrong with this, i really hope it sells well and brings in youngsters to the hobby, any other UK manufacturer doing this? (Bachmann with Thomas it not the same thing). Did not think so.

 

if i had the deposable income i could see my self buying allot but as it stands, Drax wagons and shifting my pre-order of 2007 to the steam and sound version, also the 67 in colas and a couple of the 66's. Sign of the times i'm afraid (i'm getting back into slot cars which is looking a cheaper hobby right now, although cars have got to the £50 mark)

 

I think Hornby have to be given credit on a few fronts, introducing steam/lights/sound to a RTR steam loco. Some have said this is a gimmick, well on that count so are raising pantographs, spinning fans and tinted front windows, gimmicks seem to be ok there.
Moving to 21 pin, heard complaints about this as well, 21 pin does the job and is fine for other manufacturers, so why not Hornby, allows for day/night/cab lights, do you need anything else?

 

As i've said previous the trains on film range if done right could be a winner long term, i'm not glossing over titgate as thats another subject, as long as the law has not been broken. That's a capitalist economy for you.

 

They are trying to address the order allocation, yes shops are restricted, i've spoken to a few and both give the same story. At least they all know where they stand which is an improvement on the last few years.

 

if Hornby can't improve the QC then it does not matter what they do, its a slippery slope which they will go down head first, they have to sort this out and only time will tell.

 

I'd like to say i'm surprised by the sheer froth, negativity and abuse towards Hornby, but i'm not.
 

When did they move the 67s into Railroad?

[jonnyuk]

Just now, Pmorgancym said:

When did they move the 67s into Railroad?

its the old lima tooling i believe, no lights, still a nice model though for under £100, abit of weathering and detail added

[Steamport Southport]

There's also one in one of the train sets.

 

 

[Geep7]

39 minutes ago, jonnyuk said:

if Hornby can't improve the QC then it does not matter what they do, its a slippery slope which they will go down head first, they have to sort this out and only time will tell.

 Unfortunately, the QC isn't just isolated to the UK outline range. I've had some items arrive from the International range with wheelsets adrift, or bogies not attached properly. There were some reports of one 3 coach pack recently (that cost over £100) where the roofs had not been attached properly, or come adrift in transit, and having paint marks and chips.

 

However, I'm not sure how much control Hornby have over the QC of an entire batch once it's been sent from China. Working in QC myself (albeit with Software), I wouldn't be happy with issues like this slipping through.

[Pmorgancym]

1 hour ago, jonnyuk said:

i think its a good range of product, some nice new flashy stuff, old staples making a return, a new HST addressing previous complaints, a modern EMU/DMU, stuff for the collectors that will bring in good revenue.

Something gone below the radar is the RailRoad range, lots of nice stuff in there, 37's, 67's,66's,31's, all for under £100.

 

Playtrains, brilliant product, yes they may noticed what someone else over English Channel  is doing and thought, great lets do a similar thing and theme it. Nothing wrong with this, i really hope it sells well and brings in youngsters to the hobby, any other UK manufacturer doing this? (Bachmann with Thomas it not the same thing). Did not think so.

 

if i had the deposable income i could see my self buying allot but as it stands, Drax wagons and shifting my pre-order of 2007 to the steam and sound version, also the 67 in colas and a couple of the 66's. Sign of the times i'm afraid (i'm getting back into slot cars which is looking a cheaper hobby right now, although cars have got to the £50 mark)

 

I think Hornby have to be given credit on a few fronts, introducing steam/lights/sound to a RTR steam loco. Some have said this is a gimmick, well on that count so are raising pantographs, spinning fans and tinted front windows, gimmicks seem to be ok there.
Moving to 21 pin, heard complaints about this as well, 21 pin does the job and is fine for other manufacturers, so why not Hornby, allows for day/night/cab lights, do you need anything else?

 

As i've said previous the trains on film range if done right could be a winner long term, i'm not glossing over titgate as thats another subject, as long as the law has not been broken. That's a capitalist economy for you.

 

They are trying to address the order allocation, yes shops are restricted, i've spoken to a few and both give the same story. At least they all know where they stand which is an improvement on the last few years.

 

if Hornby can't improve the QC then it does not matter what they do, its a slippery slope which they will go down head first, they have to sort this out and only time will tell.

 

I'd like to say i'm surprised by the sheer froth, negativity and abuse towards Hornby, but i'm not.
 

When did they move the 67s into Railroad?

[RJS1977]

I wouldn't have been too upset about coach roofs coming loose - makes it easier to add passengers!

[Pmorgancym]

So the shift from 8pin to 21, acceptance of a modern standard, or simply you can't get 8pin chips/sockets any more?

[caradoc]

8 hours ago, KDG said:

SK in his video pleaded with us to email him with suggestions of things we'd like him to do.

 

Rapido have no doubt emailed Mr K telling him exactly what they would like him to do.......

 

Re the Class 31, this is surely the missing link in Modernisation Plan diesels, despite Hornby's two versions, and surely wide open for a more enterprising manufacturer. 

 

[mvrnut]

Well here's a suggestion for SK to produce. An Adams 0415 Radial in Southern Railway olive green and one in LSWR Drummond's ornate livery. 

Cheers

Chris

[Downer]

Another nothing in it for me post, I'm afraid.  And I mean nothing, which is actually a first.  The better Black 5 might be promising, but not if the 'better' bits are unrealistic smoke, firebox glow and working lamps. The close-coupling will probably be a significant improvement, but I can probably arrange something similar myself on the model I already have.  The Coronation train will doubtless be a thing of beauty, but the thousand quid or so required for loco, coaches and display cabinet seems way too much, albeit probably better value than the two ends of an HST for £362.   As for the rest, I am really tired of their shoddy business morals and juvenile obsession with big shiny engines.    

 

 

[leavesontheline]

9 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

An email this morning from Derails saying the allocation Russian roulette, (my words, not theirs), has been addressed by significantly reducing the stock they can order but meaning you should in theory get it if you can find somewhere with an allocation. They also said certain items had sold out from phone calls yesterday so I think the numbers may have been quite small even for tier 1 shops on some items. 

 

Whilst I'm sure there can be nothing worse for a retailer than having to tell some of their customers that pre-orders cannot be met (even having paid a deposit) but does Hornby's approach this year really help anyone? (other than themselves!)

 

We won't find out how these allocations have been handed out to all the retailers but it is notable how few online shops are showing ANY of the Hornby 2022 new release items this year. How do retailers then divvy up the allocation? First come, first served? Will they need '1 per customer' limits? It could be like toilet rolls and pasta all over again! Retailers could end up with just as many upset customers as they did before....

 

This might mean that more people, particularly collectors who really want a specific model, will just go direct to Hornby and pre-order there. Great for Hornby, not so much for their retail network. Do companies like Hornby really allocate production slots and quantities at the manufacturers (factories) so far in advance that they can't adjust the numbers as required after 'opening the order book'?

 

It has been a little while since I ordered direct from Hornby and I have only done so a few times over the last few years, but most recent was back in the Autumn for a luggage van not available anywhere else. At that time I don't remember being given the option to increase the value of my order to receive a discount but today, whilst playing around on the Hornby website to see what 2022 items were still 'orderable' I noticed that there was the offer of a 10% discount on your next order if you spent over £100 (I think), 12.5% if you spent over £250 and 15% if you spent over £500 - i.e. only a couple of loco's at 2022 prices! Have they always done this or is this just another move to entice more customers to purchase direct and miss out the retailers?

Edited January 11, 2022 by leavesontheline
Just to note that this 'second order' discount looks to have been around for a while - maybe I just didn't notice it before or spend enough?!

[Chris116]

I seem to remember Hornby got into a lot of hot water with their dealers over selling on their website for less than RRP. Have Hornby got a short memory or are they in the process of casting their dealers off?

[leavesontheline]

I guess they wouldn't specifically be selling at less than RRP but offering a 'loyalty discount', which some retailers also do.

[cctransuk]

Having followed this, and the other Hornby 2022 threads here, it makes depressing reading.

 

My overwhelming impression is that Hornby have finally taken a gun, pointed it at their corporate foot, and pulled the trigger. We must hope that the ensuing injury is not terminal!

 

Whilst being aware of the dangers of new brooms, I really wonder if the old one is finally worn out!

 

CJI.

[shunny]

Spoke to retailer today Hornby have basically set out what each shop will receive in quantities for most of the new loco's and certain other rolling stock items. There may be some items offered later to increase orders if a shop does not want all the stock allocated ie my shop in Scotland does not see a lot of demand for new VEP but one in South East probably would love some extra. His biggest worry is most of his allocation is selling out and catalogue just arrived so people will be asking and items sold out before they even have a look. This then drives them to Hornby website who seem to have plenty to preorder.

Edited January 11, 2022 by shunny

[APOLLO]

I wonder if some of the problem lies over in China. Could it be that the manufacturers there dictate to Hornby (etc) what numbers of models they will / can produce and when they will supply. This perhaps constricted supply then leads Hornby to maximise profit by following the practices they now follow.

 

The days of always being able to buy the basics (mineral wagons etc) are over, and seemingly have been for quite a while.

 

It must be difficult to start a new themed layout these days and depending on new releases etc. Perhaps Tony Wright has it right - build your own !!!!!

 

Brit15

[phil-b259]

3 hours ago, leavesontheline said:

 

Do companies like Hornby really allocate production slots and quantities at the manufacturers (factories) so far in advance that they can't adjust the numbers as required after 'opening the order book'?

 

 

Yes!

 

As has been made clear the factories Hornby uses in China are 3rd party entities and will want to ensure they have a full order book well many months (if not a year) in advance of production starting, not keep slots spare 'just in case' Hornby decide to up the quantity they wish to order. It should also be noted that said factories will most likely want some form of upfront payment to 'reserve' the slot as it were - and the more slots Hornby wants the more it has to shell out months in advance.

 

Therefore when placing orders from factories Hornby (and Bachmann, etc) are usually in the position of doing so well before the annual product announcements are made in January and the likely demand for models is just a 'best guess' of demand and the expected finical consequences (i.e. payments out to factory versus the quickness of recouping that through sales of product etc)

 

Now sometimes its possible for booked factory slots to be re-allocated (we saw this with 'Captain Tom' fundraising class 66) but that inevitably means other stuff doesn't get made and is delayed for months or pushed back into the following year. Great if its a model you want, but lousy for others looking forward to the displaced items. With Hornby trying to provide ' something for everyone' ranging from steam, diesel, rolling stock etc then its inevitable that quantities of each product will be relatively small so as to keep providing the variety. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by phil-b259