Hornby 2022 Range - General discussion

[Mallard60022]

17 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Which is the point some (including a certain U-tuber) constantly fail to understand.

 

For much of the Hornby range there are no alternative manufacturers - if you want a M7, an H, a King Arthur, a T9, aS15, Maunsel carriages etc because they are needed for the era / location you model then there is no alternative to Hornby products and prattling on about how much better other Manufacturers are is irrelevant.

U Tube 'Influencers' can  go away quickly and carefully, avoiding my Blunderbuss output.

Couldn't agree more phil B

Phil Anotherone.

[JSpencer]

18 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

Moving on from locomotives I wonder what station the South Eastern Railway buildings on page 203 of the catalogue are based on.  In the past manufacturers have either made generic station buildings which would not look out of place anywhere in Britain or models of stations which have been visited by trains from all over Britain like the Settle and Carlisle Railway, the Bluebell Railway or the Severn Valley Railway.  There are probably more items in the Bachmann range than the Hornby range that would have visited the South Eastern Railway so I wonder what Hornby's thinking was on this subject.

 

Frant Station just south of Tunbridge Wells. They are doing the foot bridge (a modern addition) and a signal box (there was one were the foot bridge is now). I'm not sure if SER refers to progrouping or modern but suspect the latter.

[JSpencer]

My take, after at least 30 years of always finding something, this year I can finally say "nothing for me".

 

But seriously, I still have a few items from the previous years yet to come and there seems to be much promise for the future:

1/ re-tooled Mk 3s for HST - Yippee! at last. 1970s 80s blue grey please!

2/ Steam, firebox glow, sound etc! Great but try a leaf out of Bachmann's book please and apply it across the concerned class, i;e sell the same models with and without the features. (or as the price difference seems to be small, just sell it with unless there is a technical constraint whereby the fitted with can only run on DCC....).

 

The switch to 21 pin is good if somewhat late in the day. I'm don't think it is needed for railroad but then maybe it is question of simplified supply chain for these circuits boards etc....

 

Hornby's allocation system for shops is a bit of a joke. The new observation car sold out before even hitting their own news letter (that i got in my e-mail box this morning) and so on. This does not exist with any other supplier as far as I can tell. Even Bachmann's Fairlie that sold out, still could be found a good few weeks after announcement. This process impacts us (end customers), shops and finally themselves. And should be scraped and replaced by say what Bachmann are doing!

 

I mean normally end customers create demand, that feeds into shops etc, which then feeds back to the manufacturer that they then try to fulfil or at least exploit the potential sales. But not at Hornby.

 

The end result again will of course be a few items sold out with no where near enough to meet supply, and lot of other items that make little interest and sell barely being made up of things we have seen all too often before (another Triang tooled Lord of the Isles??? oh those wagons, they really are long in the tooth, and......).

 

Overall I do feel that the bulk of the range is made up of "done to the death" items, with some items that are really exciting but really hard to order and few hints of what should have been pushed further.....

 

Actually I did find some sundry items to order.... but it is like looking at a new car - and from options not sold out and left to order - discovering the light bulbs are the most exciting part of them!

Edited January 14, 2022 by JSpencer

[Pmorgancym]

Just popped to my local modelshop having moved to the area.  Mainly to by my son something cheap (relatively, came away with a Railroad 47).  

He seemed very downcast about the current prices, seemed to suggest that he wouldn't be getting much of the new Hornby releases as he wasn't likely to sell it at the prices now being asked.

[farren]

Have the prices gone up thats obviously and people are very concerned about it. But watching the news we are all heading for a bad year in inflation on everything this year. (Maybe I should stop watching the BBC news! ) Could Hornby have future proofed their prices for this year, and other companies won’t  look quite so good come this time next year. 
 

I remember coming back into the hobby getting on for 20 years ago, went out and bought some new trains the class 20,24,25 and the 45 for £49.95 each… ok the 45?was expensive at £51! With in only a few year they had doubled and everyone was up in arms at the end of the hobby the world and the monarchy (that one might not be true). But everything went up including wages and here we are. 
 

The other thing is the new boys, Accurascale Manor looks really good and if I was a GWR I would be very pleased about it’s forthcoming release. And the excellent updates are very welcome I’m sure for all and as shown the game as really changed.
However has this played into Hornbys hands. They know just as much about the model as everyone else.
So if Hornby as been watching and taking  notes they are bond to come out fighting with their own main stay model. what better then a Black 5! 

They have said it’s the most advanced model to date the black 5. with sound, smoke plus working lamps and firebox glow it’s already sounding good. It would be unfair to compare Accurascale Manor to Hornbys older tooling so I am looking forward to seeing the cad work from Hornby for the new Black 5. to see if Hornby are in it for the fight.
Similar to Bachmanns investment of new class 47. 
 

 

[The Johnster]

On 14/01/2022 at 12:07, JSpencer said:

 

Frant Station just south of Tunbridge Wells. They are doing the foot bridge (a modern addition) and a signal box (there was one were the foot bridge is now). I'm not sure if SER refers to progrouping or modern but suspect the latter.

 

They are being a bit circumspect in the online catalogue description; 'typical of station buildings found in the South East of England', which sort of suggests a generic approach to me.  But said online catalogue has a prototype colour photo which you've just told us is of Frant, and the outline drawing of the model looks pretty accurate; one wonders why they are not trumpeting this sort of scale accuracy.  It may be typical of SER style but there are other players in the South East of England, and the description could be misleading to someone starting out in the hobby and wanting to model a typical LBSC or LCD station. 

[jonnyuk]

For those coughing up their coffee over the keyboard as they rant about the price increases, go onto YouTube and search for Simon head of brand for scalextric talking to a former employee and we’ll respected member of the slot car hobby. They talk about costs near the start and it’s very interesting. Prices have not gone up for the fun of it.Channel is called slot car news.

I have cancelled numerous items I had pre ordered last year, I’m also selling various items to fund last years items price increase and the couple of items I’ve ordered this year.
Times are changing and it’s about priorities, life has and always will be about priorities. for me trains is not one of them, I’m drifting back to slot cars, my son has got into them and I’m finding the interaction for more enjoyable than trains right now, they are also cheaper.

 

Edited January 15, 2022 by jonnyuk

[Hilux5972]

On 12/01/2022 at 08:06, Downer said:

The Coronation train will doubtless be a thing of beauty, but the thousand quid or so required for loco, coaches and display cabinet seems way too much

The display cabinet is your choice, so don’t blame Hornby for that extra cost. 

[Shedmaster]

10 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

For those coughing up their coffee over the keyboard as they rant about the price increases, go onto YouTube and search for Simon head of brand for scalextric talking to a former employee and we’ll respected member of the slot car hobby. They talk about costs near the start and it’s very interesting. Prices have not gone up for the fun of it.Channel is called slot car news.

I have cancelled numerous items I had pre ordered last year, I’m also selling various items to fund last years items price increase and the couple of items I’ve ordered this year.
Times are changing and it’s about priorities, life has and always will be about priorities. for me trains is not one of them, I’m drifting back to slot cars, my son has got into them and I’m finding the interaction for more enjoyable than trains right now, they are also cheaper.

 

Hi,

 

I’m no expert on container shipping, but I understand the pre-COVID ‘normal’ cost of shipping a container from China to the UK was just over £5,000.  It is now just over £15,000, allegedly, and this is due to lots of factors outside of Hornby control such as the Suez Canal blockage.
(I would really appreciate some help validating this as I’m not sure I should trust my source.)

 

To be fair to Hornby then, or any business I would guess, this is a problem on their finances and delivery plans etc, so yes, they have not sneaked in a 24% price rise ‘for the fun of it’, there will be many reasons for this that are not entirely obvious, although still unacceptable.

 

So, that just leaves the Quality Control and decoration errors that many are complaining about, to explain away now then?

 

Kindest  Regards,

 

Shed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Butler Henderson]

Seemed pretty obvious from the Yesterday TV series whether decoration is correct or not is down to SK and plainly if so he has some problem with shades of green for starters.

[Widnes Model Centre]

Hi @Shedmaster pre  pandemic a container could cost as little as $800, now circa $14000 to $18000.  Many factors but from memory really kicked in around September 2020. 

 

Predictions that this may stabilise after Chinese New Year in relation to shipping times. But cost is expected to remain the same. 

 

There was/is a shortage of containers as they were left empty/full in various ports around the world. Not sure if still ongoing but the likes of Felixstowe we’re so congested ships were taking them to Rotterdam etc and companies had to get them collected and brought via road. But as we have been hearing, shortage of HGV drivers.

 

We have stopped importing from EU  due to overall costs and the B word.

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Widnes Model Centre

[jonhall]

12 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

They are being a bit circumspect in the online catalogue description; 'typical of station buildings found in the South East of England', which sort of suggests a generic approach to me.  But said online catalogue has a prototype colour photo which you've just told us is of Frant, and the outline drawing of the model looks pretty accurate; one wonders why they are not trumpeting this sort of scale accuracy.  It may be typical of SER style but there are other players in the South East of England, and the description could be misleading to someone starting out in the hobby and wanting to model a typical LBSC or LCD station. 

 

That's why the trade have embraced Era's so enthusiastically, they don't want to tell you it's only applicable to the station building at Nowhersville. They want to obscure the actual origin sufficiently for those who don't care (or are prepared to deliberately turn a blind eye) can justify buying it, the more specific they are, the more likely that some of their potential punters will be put off. That's hardly surprising, there won't be many modelling Frant, there will be a few more who are modelling the SER who are prepared to compromise on an SER style building or as a placeholder until they get around to building 'their' SER building, but its only when you get to  'South East England' that you get enough potential buyers, along with those who just think its a suitable generic building, to make it easy to sell.

 

Jon

[SamThomas]

All this talk of the cost of getting a container from the far East to the UK - are members quoting for a 40' ISO Container or smaller.

 

How many items of OO rolling stock (the size of a large locomotive or full length coach) can you get into an "quoted size" ISO container ?

 

Even it costs £15k for a single container now opposed to £5k a couple of years ago what does that equate to per item ?

Edited January 16, 2022 by SamThomas
FFS (Fat Finger Syndrom)

[Bernard Lamb]

5 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

All this talk of the cost of getting a containrer from the far East to the UK - are members quoting for a 40' ISO Container or smaller.

 

How many items of OO rolling stock (the size of a large locomotive or full length coach) can you get into an "quoted size" ISO container ?

 

Even it costs £15k for a single container now opposed to £5k a couple of years ago what does that equate to per item ?

Why let facts get in the way of a good argument?

I would have thought that the unit increase in transport costs would be far more significant in respect of road transport within the UK.

Bernard

[Widnes Model Centre]

43 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

All this talk of the cost of getting a container from the far East to the UK - are members quoting for a 40' ISO Container or smaller.

 

How many items of OO rolling stock (the size of a large locomotive or full length coach) can you get into an "quoted size" ISO container ?

 

Even it costs £15k for a single container now opposed to £5k a couple of years ago what does that equate to per item ?

 

Hi Sam,

 

A couple of years ago it was around $800, not £5000. That was for a forty foot container. Realistically $800 would add nothing to the price of anything but the cost would be factored in. 

 

Now  as much as $18000.

 

All relative, but if you could fit 18,000 items of rolling stock in the same container and l can’t envisage that amount. It would add $1 to very item, if only 9,000 items, then two dollars etc.

 

Some years we would import PWC’s (jet ski’s) into the UK at around £300 for a twenty foot container. Held six in their shipping crates. Price for one was retail around £8000. At today’s shipping costs that would add $3000 to each jet ski.  If today’s price is £12000 for a jet ski, imagine adding $3000 to a preorder! 

 

Don’t think any company in our trade can swallow these price increases.

 

What is really scary is shipping the likes of balsa wood. Have you seen how much that has gone up? 

[Mike_Walker]

2 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Seemed pretty obvious from the Yesterday TV series whether decoration is correct or not is down to SK and plainly if so he has some problem with shades of green for starters.

Perhaps SK is a descendant of Stroudley?  Improved engine green...

[Steamport Southport]

24 minutes ago, Mike_Walker said:

Perhaps SK is a descendant of Stroudley?  Improved engine green...

 

I don't know why that myth and misquote still perpetuates. It's total nonsense that he was colour blind and shows that people who keep using that idea don't know how colour blindness works as the livery has elements of green in it.

 

The real quote was "It's an improvement on Engine Green". 

 

Stroudley introduced the livery to the Highland Railway just before he left, yet managed to get the locomotives of two railways to embrace the livery.

 

The only HR locomotives he designed was the 0-6-0Ts which were the precursors of the Terriers. But the next locomotives built by David Jones came out in yellow as did his famous Jones Goods 4-6-0s.

 

Was he colour blind as well?

 

 

 

 

Jason

[JSpencer]

14 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

They are being a bit circumspect in the online catalogue description; 'typical of station buildings found in the South East of England', which sort of suggests a generic approach to me.  But said online catalogue has a prototype colour photo which you've just told us is of Frant, and the outline drawing of the model looks pretty accurate; one wonders why they are not trumpeting this sort of scale accuracy.  It may be typical of SER style but there are other players in the South East of England, and the description could be misleading to someone starting out in the hobby and wanting to model a typical LBSC or LCD station. 

 

The best I can say is that Frant has typical SER characteristics but it will be bit of stretch to say can used to represent another SER station. I cannot think of one that looks the same. But maybe there are... Where did you see the outline drawing?

 

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, jonhall said:

 

That's why the trade have embraced Era's so enthusiastically, they don't want to tell you it's only applicable to the station building at Nowhersville. They want to obscure the actual origin sufficiently for those who don't care (or are prepared to deliberately turn a blind eye) can justify buying it, the more specific they are, the more likely that some of their potential punters will be put off. That's hardly surprising, there won't be many modelling Frant, there will be a few more who are modelling the SER who are prepared to compromise on an SER style building or as a placeholder until they get around to building 'their' SER building, but its only when you get to  'South East England' that you get enough potential buyers, along with those who just think its a suitable generic building, to make it easy to sell.

 

Jon

 

Well I had a look as I want a SER (SECR) station building for my BR Southern Region layout as somewhere to run things like EMUs.

 

Looks a bit rural for me though.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frant_railway_station

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

7 minutes ago, JSpencer said:

 

The best I can say is that Frant has typical SER characteristics but it will be bit of stretch to say can used to represent another SER station. I cannot think of one that looks the same. But maybe there are... Where did you see the outline drawing?

 

 

The drawings are on the Hornby website.

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/south-eastern-railway-station-r7362

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/products/south-eastern-railway-station-building-r7363

 

 

Jason

Edited January 16, 2022 by Steamport Southport
Hornby website

[meatloaf]

I watched the corgi announcements this morning and found it interesting they are doing several announcments a year, similar to what Bachmann are doing. Wonder if they will soon do this for Hornby as well?

[SamThomas]

2 hours ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

Hi Sam,

 

A couple of years ago it was around $800, not £5000. That was for a forty foot container. Realistically $800 would add nothing to the price of anything but the cost would be factored in. 

 

Now  as much as $18000.

 

All relative, but if you could fit 18,000 items of rolling stock in the same container and l can’t envisage that amount. It would add $1 to very item, if only 9,000 items, then two dollars etc.

 

Some years we would import PWC’s (jet ski’s) into the UK at around £300 for a twenty foot container. Held six in their shipping crates. Price for one was retail around £8000. At today’s shipping costs that would add $3000 to each jet ski.  If today’s price is £12000 for a jet ski, imagine adding $3000 to a preorder! 

 

Don’t think any company in our trade can swallow these price increases.

 

What is really scary is shipping the likes of balsa wood. Have you seen how much that has gone up? 

I appreciate your reply which did clarify some facts, but did muddy the waters somewhat by mixing dollars with pounds.

 

Unless my maths is worse than I thought that makes a 40' ISO container around £7k more.

Using 18,000 as a benchmark that would add just under 40p per item or 80p per item for 9,000 & that may or may not include port of entry to warehouse & then warehouse to retailer.

 

As regards balsa wood it's a low value/high capacity (relatively speaking) product & possibly one reason why Gaugemaster have discontinued their balsa bundles.

 

As usual, I stand to be corrected.

[RJS1977]

3 hours ago, jonhall said:

 

That's why the trade have embraced Era's so enthusiastically, they don't want to tell you it's only applicable to the station building at Nowhersville. They want to obscure the actual origin sufficiently for those who don't care (or are prepared to deliberately turn a blind eye) can justify buying it, the more specific they are, the more likely that some of their potential punters will be put off. That's hardly surprising, there won't be many modelling Frant, there will be a few more who are modelling the SER who are prepared to compromise on an SER style building or as a placeholder until they get around to building 'their' SER building, but its only when you get to  'South East England' that you get enough potential buyers, along with those who just think its a suitable generic building, to make it easy to sell.

 

Jon

 

The trouble with Eras is that unless you know what 'Era 5' means, the phrase is meaningless. Giving a date range (e.g. 1933-1947) is more readily understood.

 

Another problem with Eras is that generally things don't 'sit' nicely into Eras but straddle boundaries. Not everything was painted into BR colours on 1/1/1948 - indeed the Aberystwth station pilot still had GWR on its tanks in 1963! Eras don't accommodate this so describing something as only suitable for the pre-nationalisation era may discourage potential purchasers modelling the early nationalisation period.

[AY Mod]

10 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Unless my maths is worse than I thought that makes a 40' ISO container around £7k more.

 

What is $18,000 minus $800 (the lows and high quoted)? Over £12,000 - converted to sterling to confuse you or help you as you see fit.

[Widnes Model Centre]

We 

 

Posted this and saw AY Mod had posted.

 

I deliberately mixed up US Dollars as that is the currency used to pay for containers and Sterling gives a UK perspective.

 

No matter what currency or maths we use. $800 compared to $18000, doesn’t give a difference of £7000. It’s approximately £12,500+  more. All dependent as well on currency fluctuations which l haven’t followed for the past two years.

 

In addition, haulage companies were charging very high rates to collect and deliver to the UK from continental ports. 

 

All this his information is what we have been told re shipping. 

 

Posted and then saw AY Mod had already replied.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Widnes Model Centre