How many trips could a HST or heavy diesel locomotive make in one day?

[Derekstuart]

Hello all

 

Following on from the interesting 'how many journeys could a steam loco make in one day', I'd like to ask the same about diesels- particularly HSTs and Brush 4s etc. I am sure this question will have been asked before, but I can't find anything (my search terms???).

 

As I understand it (for HST sets on ECML) most units would retire for the night to the depots/ stabling points and then be run into their start locations in the morning, but I seem to recall from a Bounds Green visit many years back being told that some HSTs would be inspected/ serviced in the evening and then stored overnight at Kings Cross.

 

Would they typically do one or two round trips per day? I am going to guess- and it is a guess- that they'd do one trip to Newcastle or Edinburgh and one shorter trip such as to York and back. In terms of a London to Inverness or Aberdeen, would they work back the same day or be stabled overnight for their return working?

TIA

Derek

[johnofwessex]

I suspect that the real loimit was what they were needed for in a day.

 

In terms of mileage there was the Plymouth - Aberdeen service but so long as you could keep the train cleaned, fuelled etc then it could be running 24 hours a day

[Titan]

HST's would average over 1000 miles per day, and I believe would have fuel capacity to suit, so something like Kings Cross to Edinburgh and return, and then straight to Leeds without needing to refuel would be possible, with plenty of time left over for refuelling at Leeds for the next day.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Titan

[Rivercider]

Some of the class 47 fleet that were fitted with ETH also received extra fuel tanks to extend the range between refuelling, they were eventually renumbered 47801-854,

 

cheers

[black and decker boy]

Quite a lot in this old thread

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92513-fuel-consumption/

[Kris]

3 hours ago, Derekstuart said:

Would they typically do one or two round trips per day? I am going to guess- and it is a guess- that they'd do one trip to Newcastle or Edinburgh and one shorter trip such as to York and back. In terms of a London to Inverness or Aberdeen, would they work back the same day or be stabled overnight for their return working?

On some routes they could do more than 2 return trips. Bristol to London is under 2 hours so you could see the same HST doing 3 or more return trips during the day. 

[newbryford]

Slightly OT, but it is believed the longest current daily diagram in the UK is a 390 Pendolino - covering 1383 miles.

 

 

[newbryford]

3 hours ago, Titan said:

HST's would average over 1000 miles per day, and I believe would have fuel capacity to suit, so something like Kings Cross to Edinburgh and return, and then straight to Leeds without needing to refuel would be possible, with plenty of time left over for refuelling at Leeds for the next day.

 

I think an average of 1000 is generous for an HST as there were only 1 or 2 of them that ran that far on a single diagram.

edit: 1100 miles or so  is the longest I can find. Leeds - Aberdeen - London- Leeds.

More like 750 is a daily average for an HST.

 

(Still a long way!)

Edited January 12, 2022 by newbryford

[Titan]

It was a long time ago, but I saw the figures for daily mileages for various locomotives printed as a comparison. I can't remember what it was for steam, but for Deltics it was 900 miles, and for HST 1100 miles.  Deltics would take 7 years to clock up a million miles, and HST's 4.  The HSTs could do more miles as they were faster, and only needed to fuel once a day compared to Deltics needing fuelling twice.  And also probably due to not being sat in Doncaster works so long awaiting rebuilt power units...

 

Actually, there must be a HST power car somewhere that easily holds the world record for greatest number of miles travelled by any diesel train.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Titan

[Mol_PMB]

A lot depends on how you take the averages. For example if a train is booked to be spare at a depot all day for scheduled maintenance, does the zero mileage drag down the daily average of all the others? 

[45125]

28 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

I think an average of 1000 is generous for an HST as there were only 1 or 2 of them that ran that far on a single diagram.

edit: 1100 miles or so  is the longest I can find. Leeds - Aberdeen - London- Leeds.

More like 750 is a daily average for an HST.

 

(Still a long way!)

Leeds Aberdeen KGX Leeds was booked for fuel at Aberdeen purely as a precaution if dropping on to one engine. When the ECML fleet was MTU fitted it was looked at extending the range to 1200+ miles but with the advent of the low sulphur fuel this affected the fuel efficiency so this option was not taken up. An HST on one power car would be limited to a range of around 650 miles if starting out on one power car.

[Ken.W]

One particular working l remember from just before the 91s came in;

 

At Newcastle, we took over the first train in the morning, the 0600, off Edinburgh, which we then worked through to Kings X.

After a break of just over an hour, we were booked for the same set, which had just remained in the platform, for our return working to Newcastle.

This was on the 12.00 to Inverness.

 

There's only one Inverness service a day, so the set would be fuelled and form the next morning's southbound service.

 

Of the Aberdeen services, the first in the morning, starting from Leeds, then returned south to KX, this wouldn't arrive till around 10 pm.

The first one from KX, 10.00, probably having worked in a "shorter" run, something like Leeds, arrived in Aberdeen in time to work the last southbound which is to Leeds.

The remaining two KX - ABD stabled overnight to work back the next day.

[newbryford]

1 hour ago, Titan said:

 

Actually, there must be a HST power car somewhere that easily holds the world record for greatest number of miles travelled by any diesel train.

 

I've recently read that one HST power car (43008) had racked up 8 million miles by 2016

Although another source quotes 9.725 million miles for 43238/43239 - which were the first in service on the ECML - by mid 2018.

 

That would be a few star points of diesel at Texaco.......

 

edit - numbers added

Edited January 12, 2022 by newbryford

[hexagon789]

Before LNER replaced its HSTs with Azumas, the longest HST diagram was 1169 miles. Another was 1108 miles and there were two at 1084 miles. A further 4 were over 1000 miles, and the shortest diagram was for 893.

 

For comparison, the longest IC225 diagram was 1247 miles during the same period.

[Mike_Walker]

I seem to recall there was at one time a diagram which worked from Penzance to Paddington followed by a round trip to Bristol and another to South Wales before returning to Penzance in the evening.

[45125]

11 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

I've recently read that one HST power car (43008) had racked up 8 million miles by 2016

Although another source quotes 9.725 million miles for 43238/43239 - which were the first in service on the ECML - by mid 2018.

 

That would be a few star points of diesel at Texaco.......

 

edit - numbers added

43008 had 8 million on it went from VXC to GNER so by 2016 would have run a couple of million more by then. I did have on my work laptop the milages ran by all the ECML and XC power cars since conversion to MTU. KBRS wsp rack recorded miles run so was a reasonable guide to what each power car had run.

 

Al Taylor

[The Pilotman]

4 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

I seem to recall there was at one time a diagram which worked from Penzance to Paddington followed by a round trip to Bristol and another to South Wales before returning to Penzance in the evening.

Are you sure about that? In the period with which I’m most familiar (the early 1990s) the first up HST from Penzance was the Golden Hind (0519 from Penzance) due into Paddington at 10:00 and the last down Penzance was the 1835 ex Paddington. Between those times you could fit in a Bristol or South Wales round trip but not both; there simply isn’t enough time.