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Overhead Warning Flashes on Rolling Stock


KLee55
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When did the yellow overhead warning flashes begin to be applied to rolling stock, in particular,  passenger coaches? Was it around the same time as they started to appear on locos (early 60s) or was application carried out more slowly? How common was it to see coaches without them by 1966/67? I am aware that the Southern Region were very slow to apply the overhead warning flashes, as well as other safety measures such as yellow waning panels to cab fronts, even though stock may have ventured outside the region. (Most of my Bachmann mk1 coaches in maroon livery do not have overhead warning flashes applied to coach ends.)

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I think greater urgency was given to this on stock used on newly electrified lines, where working practices had to change and you couldn't have men on carriage roofs filling tanks or on tenders raking coal forward.

I am thinking particularly of the southern end of the WCML and the diagonal stripe on the side of loco cabs applied to certain types which were banned from working under the wires.

I suppose it would be less of an issue on the Southern & Scottish Regions, but in principle just about anything could be worked to anywhere.

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The yellow warning flashes are considerably more recent - introduced around the 1990's IIRC. Prior to that they were the red lightning flash on a white background.

 

These would have been put on when the 25kV Electrification schemes started in earnest from 1960 onwards, presumably when the coaches were repainted, so it may be possible that some never carried the warning flashes in maroon.

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1 minute ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I am thinking particularly of the southern end of the WCML and the diagonal stripe on the side of loco cabs applied to certain types which were banned from working under the wires.

I suppose it would be less of an issue on the Southern & Scottish Regions, but in principle just about anything could be worked to anywhere.

 

Don't forget the Glasgow suburban areas, which was the first 25kv scheme completed - along with the exploding transformers of the class 303's because they had not quite got 25kv EMU's figured out at the time!  The London Tilbury and Southend, and the Great Eastern to Clacton followed shortly after, I think all completed before the WCML had managed to get as far south as Crewe!

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1 hour ago, KLee55 said:

When did the yellow overhead warning flashes begin to be applied to rolling stock, in particular,  passenger coaches? Was it around the same time as they started to appear on locos (early 60s) or was application carried out more slowly? How common was it to see coaches without them by 1966/67? I am aware that the Southern Region were very slow to apply the overhead warning flashes, as well as other safety measures such as yellow waning panels to cab fronts, even though stock may have ventured outside the region. (Most of my Bachmann mk1 coaches in maroon livery do not have overhead warning flashes applied to coach ends.)

From memory and based on where I was working at the time, Yellow OHL flashes date from 1998, give or take a year. Railtrack changed the Railway Group Standard so that the warnings on rolling stock were consistent with the warnings on electrical cabinets and similar.

 

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The earlier version first appeared in 1959 on the ER. Specifically on the GER section. I believe it was after an accident.

 

Some of the B12s and B17s got them virtually as they were being withdrawn!

 

ISTR there is a photograph of an already withdrawn B12 with them somewhere. Probably someone had been told to fit them to all the engines and got carried away. ;) 

 

 

Jason

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11 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

The earlier version first appeared in 1959 on the ER. Specifically on the GER section. I believe it was after an accident.

 

Some of the B12s and B17s got them virtually as they were being withdrawn!

 

ISTR there is a photograph of an already withdrawn B12 with them somewhere. Probably someone had been told to fit them to all the engines and got carried away. ;) 

 

 

Jason

 

Could be, but also the GER had the very first 25Kv section in the country between Colchester and Clacton which would have gone live in1959 IIRC, as a test bed, both for the infrastructure and testing class 302 EMU's prior to the LT&S going live.

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7 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I think greater urgency was given to this on stock used on newly electrified lines, where working practices had to change and you couldn't have men on carriage roofs filling tanks or on tenders raking coal forward.

Very true of the AC lines, but there were many places on the 1500V MSW line where the contact wire was raised sufficiently high to allow steam loco crews to access the top of the tender in order to use water cranes. There is a specific appendix in the Electrical Working Instructions listing them.

 

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1 hour ago, jim.snowdon said:

Very true of the AC lines, but there were many places on the 1500V MSW line where the contact wire was raised sufficiently high to allow steam loco crews to access the top of the tender in order to use water cranes. There is a specific appendix in the Electrical Working Instructions listing them.

 

 

As far as I am aware, the MSW locos, EM1s and 2s never had overhead warning signs fitted to them in quantity or possibly not at all.

Someone will now come up with many photos showing such things.:jester:

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6 minutes ago, great central said:

 

As far as I am aware, the MSW locos, EM1s and 2s never had overhead warning signs fitted to them in quantity or possibly not at all.

Someone will now come up with many photos showing such things.:jester:

 

I don't think the WCML electrics got them either. Until possibly later.

 

I think it's because the crews knew they were electric. It was more to remind crews working on locomotives where they had to climb up. Such as for changing lamps, watering or trimming coal.

 

Easy to forget if you've been doing the same routine for years without really thinking.

 

 

Jason

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IIRC they were stickyback labels applied at the sheds, rather than in the paint shops when locos went through works.  They were pretty universal pretty quickly, not restricted to the 25kv overhead routes for very long, and I was always mildly amused by the idea of some hapless shunter on the Southern's 3rd rail network gazing skywards having seen one of these lables and fzzz wisp of smoke.  I suppose I was a strange sort of child...  They were applied to the Southern's stock, though.

 

Goods brake vans had larger enamel versions inside the cabin behind the stove reminding guards not to raise the stove pipe, though I can't remember ever riding in one that you could have raised the stove pipe on during my time as a freight guard at Canton in the 70s.  It would have been an interesting way of lighting the stove, but I preferred the traditional method of lighting a paraffin soaked rag...

 

It was at this time and also in connection with the spread of 25kv electrification that the steps were removed from the ends of mk1 coaching stock as it went through works, to be replaced by aluminium plates covering the bolt holes.  These can still be seen on some preserved stock.

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15 hours ago, Titan said:

 

Could be, but also the GER had the very first 25Kv section in the country between Colchester and Clacton which would have gone live in1959 IIRC, as a test bed, both for the infrastructure and testing class 302 EMU's prior to the LT&S going live.

 

<Pedant mode>

Actually the Styal line was the very first 25kV section in the country with trial running starting on October 26th 1958.  Colchester to Clacton/Walton didn't start trial running until February 5th 1959.

</Pedant mode>

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15 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

The earlier version first appeared in 1959 on the ER. Specifically on the GER section. I believe it was after an accident.

 

Some of the B12s and B17s got them virtually as they were being withdrawn!

 

ISTR there is a photograph of an already withdrawn B12 with them somewhere. Probably someone had been told to fit them to all the engines and got carried away. ;) 

 

 

Jason


The wires would have been up for a while before coming into use and these locos undertook passenger duties under them as well as hauling the EMU stock to the stabling point (Clacton) - the last duties they performed probably - so perhaps that’s why they got them.

 

At one point in time all three types of power, steam, diesel, electric, could be seen at Colchester St Boltophs (Colchester town).

 

Bob

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15 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

Very true of the AC lines, but there were many places on the 1500V MSW line where the contact wire was raised sufficiently high to allow steam loco crews to access the top of the tender in order to use water cranes. There is a specific appendix in the Electrical Working Instructions listing them.

 

 

13 hours ago, great central said:

 

As far as I am aware, the MSW locos, EM1s and 2s never had overhead warning signs fitted to them in quantity or possibly not at all.

Someone will now come up with many photos showing such things.:jester:

 

Poor old GER getting forgotten about again!  A four track main line from Liverpool St to Shenfield fully electrified at 1500V DC in 1949, with stations every couple of miles, no doubt many of them with water cranes. And extended to Chelmsford and Southend shortly after using what became class 307 (also originally being 1500V dc units) for these outer suburban services.  I would not be surprised if the total amount of electric track (as opposed to route miles) far exceeded that of the MSW.

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22 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

I am thinking particularly of the southern end of the WCML and the diagonal stripe on the side of loco cabs applied to certain types which were banned from working under the wires.

The diagonal stripe only banned certain classes from working under the wires south of Crewe.

Ray.

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2 hours ago, uax6 said:

What about the Morecambe - Heysham branch? Wasn't that up at 25Kv as a test site?

It was originally 6.6kV at 25Hz and was converted to 50Hz but the voltage stayed the same.  

 

Pretty sure most or all Southern EMUs didn't get electrification flashes until the 1990s when some of them had a chance of running under 25kV near the Channel Tunnel.  Overhead DC electrification, whether at 750V in Southern goods yards or 1500V on the ex-LNER routes, is much less dangerous in proximity - unlike 25kV it won't arc for any significant distance so someone has to be virtually touching the wire to be at risk.  

Edited by Edwin_m
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15 hours ago, The Johnster said:

IIRC they were stickyback labels applied at the sheds, rather than in the paint shops when locos went through works.  They were pretty universal pretty quickly, not restricted to the 25kv overhead routes for very long, and I was always mildly amused by the idea of some hapless shunter on the Southern's 3rd rail network gazing skywards having seen one of these lables and fzzz wisp of smoke.  I suppose I was a strange sort of child...  They were applied to the Southern's stock, though.

 

Goods brake vans had larger enamel versions inside the cabin behind the stove reminding guards not to raise the stove pipe, though I can't remember ever riding in one that you could have raised the stove pipe on during my time as a freight guard at Canton in the 70s.  It would have been an interesting way of lighting the stove, but I preferred the traditional method of lighting a paraffin soaked rag...

 

It was at this time and also in connection with the spread of 25kv electrification that the steps were removed from the ends of mk1 coaching stock as it went through works, to be replaced by aluminium plates covering the bolt holes.  These can still be seen on some preserved stock.

 

Definitely would have been added on shed.

 

The new type might be stickers, but the originals were plates with screws in them.

 

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Got one somewhere which "fell off" a Class 40 on Crewe's scrap lines.

 

 

Jason

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3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Definitely would have been added on shed.

 

The new type might be stickers, but the originals were plates with screws in them.

 

spacer.png

 

Got one somewhere which "fell off" a Class 40 on Crewe's scrap lines.

 

 

Jason

Some of the early ones were a sticker, the ones on DMU cab windows been a good example.

 

Al Taylor.

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6 hours ago, Titan said:

Poor old GER getting forgotten about again!  A four track main line from Liverpool St to Shenfield fully electrified at 1500V DC in 1949, with stations every couple of miles, no doubt many of them with water cranes.

Appendix D of the 1949 Instructions for the working of electric trains between Liverpool Street/Fenchurch Street and Shenfield has all the details of where crews can water steam engines and the precautions taken to make them safe. These are generally either the provision of a dead section in the wires or the contact wire raised to above 20'.

 

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