MGR (HAA) train lengths 70- early 90s

[Bomag]

I am more of a coach person but I am looking to get some of my wagon rakes into something more accurate.

 

I have 30 HAA split between Minitrix, Peco and Farish with liveries from HOP AB to TTG; I would like to form (with some additional wagons) two sets, one 'early' and one 'late'.

 

One set of information I am in need to help with is lengths of MGR trains over the years, with different loco types. From other sources there seems to be some variation,  I am mainly looking at Yorkshire / North Nots area but happy with any info where there were differences e.g. Scotland.

 

From memory In the late 80's Class 56 were normally 36 HAA and Class 58 42 HAA anything else e.g. Class 20 is not clear and so is anything from the 1970's where I assume Class 47/3s were more common.

 

Any help please.

 

Finally I occasionality saw 2xClass20, CAR+HAAs+CAR coming off the Denby branch. Was the use of brake vans normal for Class 20 MGR trains or just the Denby branch?

[Mol_PMB]

The brake vans were a Denby branch thing, as the level crossings were crew-operated and it saved a lot of walking.

 

[Rivercider]

I have a couple of old Freight Train Loads booklets from the WR in the 1980s.

 

The page from 1987 shows MGR loads for Didcot PS from various sources. The loads are for class 47 and class 56/58 (56 and 58 loads are all the same).

Here are loads for 47 and 56/58

Baddesley 32 (cl 47 only)

Bagworth 32/35

Barrow Hill 30/45

Bescot 35/45

Birch Coppice 29/32

Coalfield Farm 30/35

Coventry 35/40

Daw Mill 36/36

Desford 20/30

Kingsbury 36/45

Mantle Lane 36/40

Markham 36/40

Three Spires 35/45

Toton 36/45

Washwood Heath  36/45

 

I remember from the early 1980s that trains to Aberthaw were standardised at 28 HAAs hauled by 2 x 37/0 wherever they came from (though tipped by a Canton 47/3). Once the 37/7s became available train lengths varied.

 

cheers 

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Rivercider
Additional info

[Wheatley]

From memories of watching them go past school in South Yorks in the 1980s, 36 behind a 56 and usually 32 behind a 47. No 58s round us. 

[47406]

Late '80s, early '90s the MGR trains through York were standard rakes of 36 HAAs. Was solid 56s in the late '80s, 58s appearing early in the '90s but still with 36 wagon sets. I lived in York in those years & regularly hung out at Holgate Jnct, I saw a lot of MGRs :-)

 

What I recall of the MGRs I saw around West & South Yorkshire was the same. The trains to Fiddlers Ferry that i recall were also 36. Over the other side of the Pennines though a lot of the rakes I saw in those years, mainly with pairs of 20s, were either 40 or 42 HAAs.

 

In South Wales the lengths of trains seemed to vary from what i recall, different lengths based on how steep the valley was.

 

Wasn't there a book called "How steep was my valley" ?

[Rivercider]

I made a few trips to York in the 1980s. On one occasion there were several loaded MGR trains heading south,

they all seemed to change locos at York Yard North with Gateshead 56s coming off to work empty sets back north. Was it normal to change locos on MGR trains here?

 

There appear to be five loaded trains in York Yard North, with 56131 on one of them,  18/7/85

 

cheers

[doilum]

If I recall correctly, the local mgr runs to Ferrybridge and Eggborough were limited to 30 by the length of the sidings under the colliery rapid loader. When the older pits began to close after 1984 the trains grew to 36 as they were coming from Gascoigne Wood. Perhaps this question might have been better under the prototype section to attract the attention of drivers from the time.

[hmrspaul]

2 hours ago, doilum said:

Perhaps this question might have been better under the prototype section to attract the attention of drivers from the time.

Agreed

 

There is information on train operation, including some of the changes as the years went past in the book that is essential reading. 

 

MERRY-GO-ROUND on the Rails

https://hmrs.org.uk/merry-go-round-on-the-rails-book.html

 

Paul

Edited January 18, 2022 by hmrspaul

[47406]

13 hours ago, Rivercider said:

I made a few trips to York in the 1980s. On one occasion there were several loaded MGR trains heading south,

they all seemed to change locos at York Yard North with Gateshead 56s coming off to work empty sets back north. Was it normal to change locos on MGR trains here?

 

 

There appear to be five loaded trains in York Yard North, with 56131 on one of them,  18/7/85

 

cheers

 

Yes, up until some time in the '90s all the MGR traffic through York used the North yard to change locos. The Gateshead/Blyth 56s would drop their full rakes in the yard, run round & head North with a set of empties. Knottingley 56s would drop empty rakes here and head back South with a full set. The only time you'd see a GD/Blyth 56 south of York was on the Cawoods containerised coal.

 

Very occasionally you'd see a 'Northern' 56 head up to Holgate Sidings just south of the station & drop their rake there, but that was unusual. They would also use the main yard by the BREL works if the North yard was full.

 

I seem to recall there was some agreement with the unions that said only Knottingley crews could man MGR trains going into Drax, Ferrybridge & Eggborough.

 

Here's another shot of the North yard in '91. You can just make out a 56 in the distance heading North with an empty MGR set, one of Thornaby's 47/3s heading North with empty TEAs on the through lines and 56125 that has just arrived with a full set of tubs, it headed North shortly after with one of the empty sets on the left. There is also a single HAA in a siding on its own, presumably a cripple removed from its train.

 

31544 is arriving with a set of unfitted Grampuses carrying spoil & will back into the main yard South of the bridge.

Edited January 18, 2022 by 47406

[cheesysmith]

Answer varies according to the traction and route. By the end of the 80s it was standardised on class 56/58 and 36. The trains to Didcot were remarshaled in barrow hill sidings to 45 loaded to minimise the paths on the long run. Beginning of the 80s they would have been shorter, with 30 for the woodhead and either 30 or 32 behind a 47/3.