Using the Hobby Holidays Chassis Jig

[polybear]

Hi,

I've had a Hobby Holidays Chassis Jig for more years than I can remember - and have yet to use it in anger .  Now that I have a lot more time to spare I'd like to start reducing The Great Kit Pile sorry, Mountain and start using it 

I've seen pictures of others using it which suggest that some find it useful to stand it on edge, so I thought I'd ask the question of others who have this jig and ask (a) is that the case, and (b) any other advice you may have on using it.

 

Please bear in mind that I'm quite happy with it (despite not having used it yet...) and don't want to get into "you should've bought the Avonside/Poppys/whatever jig" instead.  None of those were even invented when I purchased my jig, so that's a good excuse for a start....

 

Many thanks

Brian

[ozzyo]

A photo of the jig could help.

 

OzzyO.

[polybear]

8 hours ago, ozzyo said:

A photo of the jig could help.

 

OzzyO.

 

Here's one from the 'net:

edit:  From Phil Parker's Blog (sorry Phil!) - see later posts below

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by polybear

[Phil Parker]

27 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Here's one from the 'net:

 

 

Lifted from my blog (thanks for the credit) - where you can read how i've used it on several projects. https://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/search?q=hobby+holidays

[hayfield]

Brian

 

I have one of these and its a great piece of kit, I have no idea if I am doing it right and so far only built rigid chassis with it

 

The first step is to set up the axle rods firstly so they align with the coupling rods, secondly I slightly inset them so the axle bearings go into the groove so the frames sit flush with the square metal holders, if the recess is too deep the axle bearings may not sit flush with the frames. Sounds far harder than it is

 

Solder the bearings into the frames 

 

 

Once both sides have been done solder the frame spacers to one side then fit back on to the jig, next fix the second side on to the jig and solder it to the spacers

 

 

You end up with a nice and square frame hopefully with no tight spots

 

My next attempt will be a compensated chassis by fitting some hornblocks I guess in much the same way, remember the coupling rods must be jointed

 

Derek of Eileen's Emporium has made a video of using their own version, its slightly different but shows the process very well. 

 

The Hobby Holidays jig is a super bit of kit and I am certain it will be of great use to you. Do take some photos and let us know how you got on

[polybear]

2 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Lifted from my blog (thanks for the credit) - where you can read how i've used it on several projects. https://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/search?q=hobby+holidays

 

Sorry Phil, I didn't realise - I was just looking for a nice piccy using Google Images....

Would a big slice of LDC get me back in your good books? 

 

edit:  After starting to read your blog (many thanks for the link) I see you've made mention of the 1.5mm axle ends; Phil at HH does sell axles with 1mm ends as an option.  HTH

Brian

Edited January 19, 2022 by polybear

[Phil Parker]

22 minutes ago, polybear said:

After starting to read your blog (many thanks for the link) I see you've made mention of the 1.5mm axle ends; Phil at HH does sell axles with 1mm ends as an option.  HTH

 

I keep meaning to buy a set, but never when I see the stand! 

[polybear]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

Brian

 

I have one of these and its a great piece of kit, I have no idea if I am doing it right and so far only built rigid chassis with it

 

The first step is to set up the axle rods firstly so they align with the coupling rods, secondly I slightly inset them so the axle bearings go into the groove so the frames sit flush with the square metal holders, if the recess is too deep the axle bearings may not sit flush with the frames. Sounds far harder than it is

 

Solder the bearings into the frames 

 

 

Once both sides have been done solder the frame spacers to one side then fit back on to the jig, next fix the second side on to the jig and solder it to the spacers

 

 

You end up with a nice and square frame hopefully with no tight spots

 

My next attempt will be a compensated chassis by fitting some hornblocks I guess in much the same way, remember the coupling rods must be jointed

 

Derek of Eileen's Emporium has made a video of using their own version, its slightly different but shows the process very well. 

 

The Hobby Holidays jig is a super bit of kit and I am certain it will be of great use to you. Do take some photos and let us know how you got on

 

Many thanks @hayfield - would I be correct in thinking that you find at least some of the construction easiest with the jig standing on it's side?  If so then do you think it worthwhile for me to add some easily-removable end pieces to keep it upright and stable?

Thanks

Brian

[hayfield]

Brian

 

That's how I find it easier, others may differ. In fact that is how the other jig works watch the video its very useful

 

As for new/extra axles, just phone Phil

[Siberian Snooper]

I have one too, I turn it to wherever it's easiest to get the iron in to solder the joint. I've eve gripped it between my knees, so that I could hold it vertically.

 

 

[jwealleans]

I'm another happy user and yes, I have been known to turn it on it's side and clamp it to the edge of the WB to solder more easily. 

 

I haven't used any of the others (like the OP, when I bought mine it was  choice of any one from one on the market) but it makes producing a square, straight set of frames much quicker.   I use the rolling road far more than I thought I might as well.

[hayfield]

Am I correct in thinking that if using hornblocks, the same method is used?

[Captain Kernow]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

Am I correct in thinking that if using hornblocks, the same method is used?

You will obviously need the coupling rods made up first, before securing the hornblocks in place.

 

You will also need something (I have some old small springs from a Perseverence jig) to hold the hornblocks in place, once you've got them where you want them, on the inside face of the frames.

 

I've built a few chassis using the HH jig, but I personally never liked the horizontal nature of it, so I eventually bought an Avonside one and haven't looked back, the reason being that this is done on a vertical plane, so I think that the HH one will be easier to use, if turned and secured on it's side somehow.

 

[Captain Kernow]

On 19/01/2022 at 17:52, hayfield said:

built rigid chassis with it

Have I thought this through? If you are building a rigid chassis with one of these jigs, then you can get away with soldering the bearings in one of the side frames, before you set everything else up on the jig?

 

[polybear]

10 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Have I thought this through? If you are building a rigid chassis with one of these jigs, then you can get away with soldering the bearings in one of the side frames, before you set everything else up on the jig?

 

 

I'm guessing that if you have a poor kit (or frames) that have oversize or poorly positioned/etched bearing holes then jigging everything up together is a safer option.

[hayfield]

13 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

You will obviously need the coupling rods made up first, before securing the hornblocks in place.

 

You will also need something (I have some old small springs from a Perseverence jig) to hold the hornblocks in place, once you've got them where you want them, on the inside face of the frames.

 

I've built a few chassis using the HH jig, but I personally never liked the horizontal nature of it, so I eventually bought an Avonside one and haven't looked back, the reason being that this is done on a vertical plane, so I think that the HH one will be easier to use, if turned and secured on it's side somehow.

 

 

Yes I always build the coupling rods first, especially as you use them to set up the jig.

 

As for using the springs, I have some as used in the Perseverance hornblock alignment jigs

 

I did use the video tutorial Derek made using the Avonside jig

 

13 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Have I thought this through? If you are building a rigid chassis with one of these jigs, then you can get away with soldering the bearings in one of the side frames, before you set everything else up on the jig?

 

 

In the video tutorial both sides were set up independently, then both sides were fitted together ?  Or have I totally missed something !!

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, polybear said:

 

I'm guessing that if you have a poor kit (or frames) that have oversize or poorly positioned/etched bearing holes then jigging everything up together is a safer option.

 

I have done thi in the past with rigid frames, where I rebuilt a badly butchered kit

[hayfield]

On 20/01/2022 at 19:35, Captain Kernow said:

 

You will also need something (I have some old small springs from a Perseverence jig) to hold the hornblocks in place, once you've got them where you want them, on the inside face of the frames.

 

 I eventually bought an Avonside one and haven't looked back, the reason being that this is done on a vertical plane,

 

 

A question please

If I set the hornblocks into the side frames using the jig set by the coupling rods, Why do I need the springs when soldering the chassis together ?

 

Advice please

I have decided to build my next loco chassis in a compensated form, Years ago I build a Perseverance chassis this way, it was an 0-6-0 one axle fixed and the other two on a rocking beam. I did try and build a compensated chassis with Alan Gibson hornblocks and failed, many years earlier I also failed with a set of Maygib hornblocks, I hear that these (Alan Gibson) are a bit more difficult (or need getting used to) to use ?

 

Next up will either be an 0-4-0 or an 0-6-0

 

If I build the 0-4-0 I will have a fixed wheel plus a pivot beam in the center of the wheels in hornblocks

 

The 0-6-0 is fixed either on the front or rear wheel and a rocking beam over the other two.  Sprung or CSP is a bit advanced at the moment

 

I do have a choice of hornblocks,  Perseverance, Alan Gibson. Maygib, MJT, London Road Models, Exactoscale (with springs) and High Level. I was thinking at the moment using Perseverance as I have used these successfully in the past. Thoughts/advice would be most welcome 

 

I do have the Mike Sharman Flexichassis book, which seems to advocate twin beam rocking system (Perseverance a single beam/rod system), also both a Perseverance guild to compensated chassis and several sets of instructions

 

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by hayfield

[ThePipersSon]

On the question of horn-blocks, I would go for the High-level ones every time. I tried to use the perseverance ones once, but then switched to High-level. I assembled 6 High-level in the time I had been struggling with a perseverance one, and getting nowhere.

 

 

[Captain Kernow]

53 minutes ago, hayfield said:

A question please

If I set the hornblocks into the side frames using the jig set by the coupling rods, Why do I need the springs when soldering the chassis together ?

Hi John,

 

I use these springs (which I find very awkward to get into the correct position sometimes!) to stop the hornblocks from coming away from the inside face of the frames, when soldering up. It has nothing to do with the correct positioning of the hornblocks, relative to the coupling rods, as the rods themselves do this job, as you have correctly observed.

 

If all hornblocks are kept in the absolute correct position by both the coupling rods and the springs, soldering them in place should be a quick and simple job.

55 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Advice please

I have decided to build my next loco chassis in a compensated form, Years ago I build a Perseverance chassis this way, it was an 0-6-0 one axle fixed and the other two on a rocking beam. I did try and build a compensated chassis with Alan Gibson hornblocks and failed, many years earlier I also failed with a set of Maygib hornblocks, I hear that these (Alan Gibson) are a bit more difficult (or need getting used to) to use ?

 

Next up will either be an 0-4-0 or an 0-6-0

 

If I build the 0-4-0 I will have a fixed wheel plus a pivot beam in the center of the wheels in hornblocks

 

The 0-6-0 is fixed either on the front or rear wheel and a rocking beam over the other two.  Sprung or CSP is a bit advanced at the moment

 

I do have a choice of hornblocks,  Perseverance, Alan Gibson. Maygib, MJT, London Road Models, Exactoscale (with springs) and High Level. I was thinking at the moment using Perseverance as I have used these successfully in the past. Thoughts/advice would be most welcome 

 

I do have the Mike Sharman Flexichassis book, which seems to advocate rocking beams, also both a Perseverance guild to compensated chassis and several sets of instructions

I have also used both Perseverance and High Level hornblocks and both are very good.

 

I have used the Perseverance ones more than the High Level ones, for the simple reason that many of my chassis builds were done at a time before the High Level ones became available.

 

Having built the High Level 74XX chassis a couple of years ago, I can also agree that these are also good hornblocks.

 

I also found the Alan Gibson system (of springing the hornblocks) difficult to get on with, but I am looking to try the Comet system of springing in a forthcoming build (Austerity 0-6-0ST in P4).

 

Apart from the Comet system, I am probably going to stay in my comfort zone and keep building single beam compensation, in both OO and P4 (the former, because of improved pick up).

 

I am wondering if the Mike Sharman book, when advocating 'rocking beams', is describing twin-beam compensation? This is used in most of the High Level chassis now and their chassis design makes it much more straightforward.

 

[hayfield]

30 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Hi John,

 

I use these springs (which I find very awkward to get into the correct position sometimes!) to stop the hornblocks from coming away from the inside face of the frames, when soldering up. It has nothing to do with the correct positioning of the hornblocks, relative to the coupling rods, as the rods themselves do this job, as you have correctly observed.

 

If all hornblocks are kept in the absolute correct position by both the coupling rods and the springs, soldering them in place should be a quick and simple job.

I have also used both Perseverance and High Level hornblocks and both are very good.

 

I have used the Perseverance ones more than the High Level ones, for the simple reason that many of my chassis builds were done at a time before the High Level ones became available.

 

Having built the High Level 74XX chassis a couple of years ago, I can also agree that these are also good hornblocks.

 

I also found the Alan Gibson system (of springing the hornblocks) difficult to get on with, but I am looking to try the Comet system of springing in a forthcoming build (Austerity 0-6-0ST in P4).

 

Apart from the Comet system, I am probably going to stay in my comfort zone and keep building single beam compensation, in both OO and P4 (the former, because of improved pick up).

 

I am wondering if the Mike Sharman book, when advocating 'rocking beams', is describing twin-beam compensation? This is used in most of the High Level chassis now and their chassis design makes it much more straightforward.

 

 

Thank you very much for a comprehensive answer and the advice.

 

Yes the Mike Sharman book shows a twin (rocking) beam rather than the simpler single beam (which is actually a rod) Perseverance design

 

Have there been any tutorials on here using either of the jigs or building a compensated chassis on here ?

[Siberian Snooper]

There's a comprehensive thread on Scaleforum by Will L, look on his workbench.  Scaleforum is free to view,  but you can only comment or ask a question in the guestbook section.

 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Don't get hung up on Mike Sharman versus Perseverance, the object of both is to achieve a three point compensation system.

 

For an 0-6-0 that can be one (end) fixed axle and the other two axles on a single centre beam or two side axle beams and the other axle on a single central pivot.

 

In the first case the motor and gear mount is attached to the fixed axle. Easier to fit the motor, etc. but the rigid axle will impart movement to the chassis/body on poorly laid and jointed trackwork. In the second the motor is attached to one of the twin beam axles. The motor therefore moves with the axle and  needs a flexible attachment/restaint to the chassis but the loco will be less prone to movement on poor trackwork.

 

Going back to the OP, I don't have a chassis jig but simply use the tapered end axles jigs from London Road Models. My locos are all compensated, usually with one fixed axle and a single centre beam. I follow Iain Rice's approach to assembling the frames. After fitting the fixed bearings and cutting out the other hornguide slots I solder an end spacer to one frame, the other end spacer to the opposite frame and any centre spacers to one or both depending how many are in the kit. With a long piece of 1/8" silver steel through the fixed bearings I tack solder the frames together using a setsquare to check that the fixed axle is correctly aligned. After finishing soldering I fit the hornguides and bearings using the coupling rods and taper end axle jigs. It's a technique I learned before the HH or Avonside jigs came onto the market so I continued, having got good results. It does help if the kit designer provided L or U shaped spacers and half etched slots in the frames to take them.

[hayfield]

I bought a 3D printed model of a GER S56 (which went into the J69 LNER classification). It was designed to fit the Hornby/Dapol Terrier chassis, I wanted it in EM gauge and had a spare Branchlines Terrier chassis, started to build it but it never looked right

 

I bought  Southeastern Finecast J67/69 etched chassis and took some photos of my hamfisted attempt of building a rigid chassis. I bought my Hobby Holidays jig second hand and without instructions, so perhaps this is a good point for those better informed to tell me where I am going wrong, plus I have a second of these chassis which I want to build compensated. Therefore hopefully some assistance will be forthcoming

 

 

I set up the jig using the coupling rods

 

 

I adjust the axle rods so the bearings sit slightly proud of the carriers, so the bearings do not slip into the carriers, this way I know they sit flush with the chassis side frames

 

 

The chassis side sits flush against the bearings, then soldered

 

 

I do the same with the other side frame

 

 

The frame spacers were fitted to one side 

 

 

I adjusted the axle rods so the bearings go unto the ressed holes leaving the side frames flush with the blocks

 

 

 

Then both sides were fitted on to the jig and soldered together

 

 

Resulting in a nice free running chassis

 

Next up I need a compensated version !!