Meldon ballast motive power

[Guest Jack Benson]

To paraphrase a comment found elsewhere  "Diversion movements of Meldon ballast would tax even the most capable of goods locos on the hills, normally diagrammed for eight 40t hoppers S15s or just six for Ns."  Were Q1s ever used from Exeter eastwards? I realise that BLPs and 4-6-0s were noted but 'Charlies'?

 

See Link to steam powered ballast on the Southern

 

 

Thank you, StaySafe

Edited January 25, 2022 by Jack Benson
redundant image

[Cowley 47521]

20 minutes ago, Jack Benson said:

To paraphrase a comment found elsewhere  "Diversion movements of Meldon ballast would tax even the most capable of goods locos on the hills, normally diagrammed for eight 40t hoppers S15s or just six for Ns."  Were Q1s ever used from Exeter eastwards? I realise that BLPs and 4-6-0s were noted but 'Charlies'?

 

 

Thank you, StaySafe

What a photo. Any idea where exactly that was taken?

 I must admit that I didn’t realise Light Pacific’s were used on those workings.

[Wickham Green too]

Looks like just below the quarry - on the way to Okehampton.

[Cowley 47521]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

Looks like just below the quarry - on the way to Okehampton.

Thanks. I didn’t see the caption originally but I think I can see where that is now. 

[Rivercider]

I have never seen a photo of a Q1 on a ballast train west of Salisbury, but that does not mean they never worked one.

One of the trains was 9.25pm from Okehampton to Woking, 12.20am from Exeter Central, so unlikely to often be photographed.

 

Robert Trevelyan in his book Men Machines and Maintenance describes working a turn from Exeter with 30846  in 1962, he says S15s were the favoured loco for the job but WC/BBs were often substituted, he also says the regular load was 10 x 40t hoppers, and there are photos of 10 hopper trains in the book. 

Pretty much any class of loco could work the stone trains from Meldon  to Exeter as it was mostly downhill, he says one day they had an Ivatt 2MT tank for the job with 10 on which was down to walking pace at North Tawton, though N class 2-6-0s were often used  and were perfectly adequate for the job.

 

cheers

[Guest Jack Benson]

1 hour ago, Rivercider said:

I have never seen a photo of a Q1 on a ballast train west of Salisbury, but that does not mean they never worked one.

One of the trains was 9.25pm from Okehampton to Woking, 12.20am from Exeter Central, so unlikely to often be photographed.

Thanks Kevin,

Although perceived as a central division asset, Q1s were visitors to Dorchester and Weymouth in the late ‘40s-early ‘50s (Steam Bash) 

Q1s were regular visitors to Salisbury, IFAIK, there is no notice that ‘bans’ the use of Q1s between Exeter and Salisbury but a link to a working notice would be welcome. 

StaySafe

 

[bbishop]

There were a number of Charlies assigned to Eastleigh and Don Bradley records they were regular travellers to Templecombe and were known to reach Okehampton - so who knows?  Bill

[Guest Jack Benson]

13 minutes ago, bbishop said:

There were a number of Charlies assigned to Eastleigh and Don Bradley records they were regular travellers to Templecombe and were known to reach Okehampton - so who knows?  Bill

Thank you

 

StaySafe

[Kris]

2 hours ago, Rivercider said:

 

Pretty much any class of loco could work the stone trains from Meldon  to Exeter as it was mostly downhill, he says one day they had an Ivatt 2MT tank for the job with 10 on which was down to walking pace at North Tawton, though N class 2-6-0s were often used  and were perfectly adequate for the job.

 

cheers

That must have been fun going up to Central.

[Rivercider]

8 hours ago, Kris said:

That must have been fun going up to Central.

Definitely. With that load there would be an assisting loco front, and two rear,

 

cheers

[bécasse]

To my recollection Charlies were usually used in pairs on ballast trains at the site of engineering works. They were apparently very popular with the pw men because of their ability to position the heavy train "on a sixpence".

[Wickham Green too]

59 minutes ago, bécasse said:

... Charlies were ... popular with the pw men because of their ability to position the heavy train "on a sixpence".

Odd that - as their brakes weren't supposed to be particularly fantastic ! ...... and with a fully fitted train the wagon brakes would do much of the work irrespective of the class of loco on the front.

[Cowley 47521]

1 hour ago, bécasse said:

To my recollection Charlies were usually used in pairs on ballast trains at the site of engineering works. They were apparently very popular with the pw men because of their ability to position the heavy train "on a sixpence".

Would they also have been useful because of the extra wheel visibility due to the lack of running boards perhaps?

[Guest Jack Benson]

Whilst the topic of conversation is ‘charlies’ I thought it worth sharing my version.

 

 

Not Hornby nor SEF, its only purpose is the ballast train on Beaminster Road the alternative reality South Western route to Exeter.

 

StaySafe

[bécasse]

5 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Odd that - as their brakes weren't supposed to be particularly fantastic ! ...... and with a fully fitted train the wagon brakes would do much of the work irrespective of the class of loco on the front.

I think that it was down to the difference between trying to stop a heavy train moving at, say, 40 mph which definitely needed skill and anticipation with a Charlie, and bringing the same train moving at, say, 2 mph to a precision stop, which the Charlies were undoubtedly good at - I watched them do it with engineers' trains on several occasions (sadly a long time ago now). I have heard it suggested that it was due to the fast action of the steam brake on a Charlie, and, of course, the momentum of a train moving at 40 mph is 400 times greater than that of a train moving at 2 mph so the task is completely different.

[Guest Jack Benson]

So far,

 

I have failed to find a photo of a Q1 on either a ballast or engineering train despite trawling the usual suspects, they seemed to very camera shy.
 

If anyone can assist, please do so.

 

Thank you

[pH]

16 minutes ago, Jack Benson said:

So far,

 

I have failed to find a photo of a Q1 on either a ballast or engineering train despite trawling the usual suspects, they seemed to very camera shy.
 

If anyone can assist, please do so.

 

Thank you

Here’s one on a ballast train, but I can’t get a caption to show up:

 

https://dieselfutures.tumblr.com/search/Q1

 

(Edit - I also can’t link to a single picture! It’s the sixth picture on that linked page.)

Edited January 27, 2022 by pH

[73c]

33002 running through New Cross Gate.

[Guest Jack Benson]

Finally, this popped up in my inbox. 33026 hurring through Basingstoke on a Meldon bound train of ballast empties in January '64, I suggest that this does support the notion that Q1s did haul ballast trains as well as work engineering specials.

 

My 'charlie' has finally acquired a rake of six Lima 40t hoppers now upgraded with Cambrian Diamond bogies, here is a link CLICK HERE but to prevent frothing, the images are pre-upgrade.

 

StaySafe