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Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

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I had a chat to Simon Kohler at the Kernow MRC / YMR show who, while not specifically forthcoming on the release date seemed rather pleased with the test shots on show. He was also less than forthcoming on the possibility of a later release of the unit in original condition but seemed at least to accept there might be a demand for it.

 

I'm quite disappointed by the news that Hornby won't be doing an original unit. I would have thought there would be a greater demand for an original unit to sit alongside Hornby's WC/MN & BoB rather than a unit in blue with full yellow ends.

 

Steve

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the news that Hornby won't be doing an original unit

 

May I suggest that my words, which were carefully chosen, are carefully re-read as that is neither what I nor Simon Kohler has said.

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I had a chat to Simon Kohler at the Kernow MRC / YMR show who, while not specifically forthcoming on the release date seemed rather pleased with the test shots on show. He was also less than forthcoming on the possibility of a later release of the unit in original condition but seemed at least to accept there might be a demand for it.

I'd be a bit surprised if there was insufficient demand for an original condition unit in Blue/Grey - that was probably the longest lived and widest spread livery of all.

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First, I don't know that the mixing of 4-VEPs and steam is really on except in "one-off" type scenarios.

 

Secondly, I didn't know that the announced units will be "refurbished" types, thanks for that. I think a proper back-dating will be quite a major undertaking unless the moulds have been specifically designed for it.

 

Third, this should mean that the front runners for future releases "SHOULD" be ;-

 

Hornby ; Class 455, 4-SUB

 

Bachmann ; 4-COR, 2-BIL or 2-HAL, Class 442 Wessex units

 

That should give a suitable mixture and complementary units.

 

.

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I think we should clarify: the original units were in blue with small yellow panels and a matt finish. Hornby's first releases in the catalogue are to be a slightly later blue with full yellow ends and polished window frames (at least, that's what is pictured), plus a refurbished unit in NSE livery. So Hornby are to release a unit in original condition but from the second batch delivered to BR - there should be no need to actually change the moulds for the first batch, it is purely a livery and detail change (eg the polished BR arrows).

 

From all of the pre-production shots and information shown so far, still no one has been able to say what motor/mechanism is to be fitted.

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IIRC the only major variation between the first batches of VEP's and subsequent batches was the provision on the first ones of body side lifting hooks.

 

Of course when the refurbishments happened, MBSO's were exchanged which resulted in some units having lifting hooks on the motor car and none on the other three and vice-versa. Of course with the removal of half of the luggage van on refurbishment, one of the lifting hooks each side of the motor car was removed as well.

 

VEP's had a lot of detail variations that I reckon once we get our hands on the model and head to our workbenches to renumber and repaint will catch out the unwary!!!

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May I suggest that my words, which were carefully chosen, are carefully re-read as that is neither what I nor Simon Kohler has said.

 

Hi. Sorry - but can you clarify by what you mean by original unit. I took your comments to mean the original livery with blue/small yellow fronts or do you mean original as in pre-refurbishment. I thought Hornby's plan was to release one unit in original form (i.e - pre refurbishment in blue/full yellow fronts) and one unit in NSE post refurbishment.

 

First, I don't know that the mixing of 4-VEPs and steam is really on except in "one-off" type scenarios.

 

 

I don't know the delivery date of the very first VEP but I assume they would would have had testing before introduction so would have been seen alongside the very last WC/MN etc. Even if it was only a couple of months thats good enough for me to run VEPs and steamers alongside each other.

 

Steve

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As I understand it the standard blue that Hornby will be doing is that of the 3417 'Gordon Pettit' which is later version but in the original livery as stated with polished/painted window frames and a name on the Guards van, with main beam head lights and refurbished seating area behind the smaller Van. This unit is one of the last operated by SWT and was used at Swanage as coaching stock in 2009... That was the photo shown on the Large PDF back after the New Year announcement. the Hornby website photo shows an original in error I believe.

 

As said though the originals and Blue greys would cover a lot the juiced areas of the Southern for a longer period so I hope Hornby will consider it at some point... Again any decision will be basis of sales of this first batch?

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I've got a feeling Modelzone or somebody will commission a blue/grey version

 

One day may be but not with the general release moulding... Both Hornby Website photos are NOT correct, the standard blue photo is an original pre-referb full yellow ends and the NSE pic has the old Van!!!, Yet the test shot pictures at the start of this thread are that of the post 1988 referbishment with head lights in the vestuble cab doors and the refurb vans with the extra seating so that will be the late NSE and the Gordon Pettit blue... there could be SWT with orange stripe NSE and connex white and yellow and Southern greens and white I guess?

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Only one (3514 IIRC) got Southern green/white which means that one will be snapped up for a ModelZone-esque limited edition at some point! There was also plain white with thin blue skirt, a couple of very subtle variations of Connex livery, plenty to have a go at.

 

Then there are livery variations within NSE with two shades of blue, angled corner upswept stripes with BR double arrow, curved corner upswept stripes without arrows, route branding logos on the vans (Sussex Coast, Kent Coast, Solent & Wessex), SWT and Network SouthCentral brandings. black caps on the cab ends with later repaints, etc. etc.

 

Of course Hornby's record on the accuracy of their NSE liveried models has been appalling for the last twenty years and I don't know about anyone else but it makes me a tad nervous that I am going to have to repaint my NSE VEP's as soon as I get them to correct any errors... :unsure:

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The test shots seen at the Kernow / YMR show included the rebuilt brake / small passenger saloon arrangement and modified toplights. Thus not at all original what ever livery is applied. At a guess it might be possible to rework the tooling to issue an "as-built" version at some stage. I am also none the wiser on the intended power unit for the models which was something I had intended to ask Simon Kohler but was unable to do so in all fairness as he had a fairly respectable queue of customers.

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I'm now a bit confused about the blue VEP. Have Hornby actually said that it will be the "Gordon Petit" or is that an assumption based on the the fact that the only test shots we've seen are of a refurbished unit? The (slightly vague) wording on the Hornby website suggests it will be in original condition.

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I really think we have to wait and see what comes in the box. That's frustrating for many of us but I also take the wording of the Hornby web site to be vague and open to interpretation.

 

In broad terms (and we have all read above that there are many detail variations) units 7701 - 7807 / 7809 - 7815 were delivered blue with the rest blue/grey from new. Only the first 20 had small blue panels IIRC and I'm not sure at which point the raised aluminium logo was replaced by the sticker - possibly coincident with the switch to b/g but I'm not sure. All of those units had sliding toplights as delivered and orange curtains throughout as well as the full-size brake taking up half a coach length plus four first class compartments in each driving trailer. At that time high beam headlights were unknown.

 

The preserved unit 3417 has many modifications and unless Hornby issues a clear statement to clarify their intent (or shows shots of as-built vehicles which have not yet appeared) then we are stuck with the wait and our retailers are potentially stuck with lower advance orders than might be the case.

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Well said, Rick. I have refrained from pre-ordering because of the above issues: the unknown power plant and now the doubt as to which era the blue model will belong.

 

Please Simon Kohler: let us know exactly what Hornby intend doing with these releases.

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Hi

has anyone emailed simon at Hornby or asked the question through mremag he seems to pop up quite a bit on there with answers to questions.

cheers

mark

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There was a retailer PDF with a picture of 3417 on a full page photo.

 

Going on Hornby's previous trouble with type variants, Class 50 for example with 3 main body types they have made a pigs ear of window arrangements and yes the NSE is shocking.... would be nice to hear exactly what they are going to produce and correct any mistakes before it's too late.

 

I expect to see 3417 Gordon Pettit and an SWT/NSE unit with the evidence so far?

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Hi

has anyone emailed simon at Hornby or asked the question through mremag he seems to pop up quite a bit on there with answers to questions.

cheers

mark

 

 

I emailed him a couple of months ago and got no reply (which is unusual for Simon).

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The Hobby Shop in Faversham has advertised the Veps being available in Oct. Will pop in there to ask if original or refurbished.

 

Gerry

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I came across this post http://scalemodels.i...hing.com/?p=847 indicating that it would be BR Blue with SYP - Does anyone know if these people accurate prognosticators?

And to further add to the confusion http://www.wonderlan...unit-dcc-ready/ these guys are claiming a delivery date of 18th October 2010 - so it won't be long to wait - if any of this is true - to find out what kind of a BR blue 4 VEP Hornby will be releasing. I hope it is the original version, and not the Gordon Pettitt - though worthy is in the same class as Heljan's 33 Eastleigh (which I made the mistake of acquiring and now can't get rid of)...:(

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18th of October? No way.

 

With no review samples in the mags, no advance Hornby advertising (usually six to eight weeks prior to release based on past form). Warley at the very earliest I think you will find and to be honest don't expect anything more than a few airfreighted advance deliveries just in time for Christmas before New Year I think.

 

I have this horrible feeling Hornby's VEP and Bachmann's EPB will appear at exactly the same time. You can hear my wallet screaming in the background!!

 

I reckon they will be here in time for Ally Pally in March though!!

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Fully agree with the above post. I don't think they will be available this year.

 

On a seperate note I e-mailed Hornby Customer services 2 weeks ago regarding which models are to be released. Still awaiting a reply, but they do say allow 28 days for a reply.

 

Steve

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Even if advance samples are in the country for 18th October they then take a couple of weeks to be approved and sent out to the press. And that is only the first few and not the container-load destined for general sales. I would expect, based on what has been seen and said so far, to see a painted sample at Warley and then have them in the shops around the New Year.

 

I believe the Bachmann 2EPB is running a little earlier than that and may indeed be in the shops this month.

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It would seem to me that they have tooled up both types of motor coach. Probably for flexibility, so you can have an original one for a layout set in the blue/early NSE era, or a refurbished one for late NSE/ post-Privatisation layouts

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18th of October? No way.

 

With no review samples in the mags, no advance Hornby advertising (usually six to eight weeks prior to release based on past form). Warley at the very earliest I think you will find and to be honest don't expect anything more than a few airfreighted advance deliveries just in time for Christmas before New Year I think.

 

I have this horrible feeling Hornby's VEP and Bachmann's EPB will appear at exactly the same time. You can hear my wallet screaming in the background!!

 

I reckon they will be here in time for Ally Pally in March though!!

 

 

 

Hear it? I think I can see a glow in the sky, your wallet must be getting a bit hot in your pocket...

 

Having said that, I have the same horrid feeling too. Might have to re-arrange my priorities. One per month should solve it. And that's in addition to that Heljan 33/1 I'm after...

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