Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

[Budgie]

I'm not in the know, but would put money on Hornby's next electric mu being the InterCity Express Programme, Hitachi Class 800/801, as they have a history of developing models of new Inter City types to come on the market at the time the prototype enters service. This is the HST and Class 91 replacement on Inter City services, so carries a lot of prestige and kudos.

If that is so, why wouldn't they produce models of the Siemens class 700, which are being introduced now?

[rembrow]

If that is so, why wouldn't they produce models of the Siemens class 700, which are being introduced now?

 

My thinking is that the 800/801 is the Dept for Transport sponsored national Inter City replacement, so has potential to appear on most Inter City services, being produced in ohl or bi-mode versions for that potential. They will first appear on the Western then East Coast  main lines with the Western ones having recently had changed spec to be initially bi-mode only, due to the ohl installation delays. They are now rolling out from Newton Aycliffe works, so have the double potential as UK wide Inter City and assembled in the UK. Only my view, so no certainty, but Hornby;s history shows production of HST, APT prototype, Eurostar, Class 91 +DVT+Mk4 coaches and Pendolino models around the times they were introduced to express services

[phil-b259]

If that is so, why wouldn't they produce models of the Siemens class 700, which are being introduced now?

Because the class 700 is a commuter train - not a flagship InterCity one.

 

In any case the 700s being built for Thameslink are fixed formation 8 and 10 car units (though the forthcoming SWT sets will be 5 cars and the Moorgate replacements 6 cars)

 

With some being 5 cars in real life you also get the oppotunity Bacmann had with the Voyagers - sell a shortened version in a train pack and the extra car(s) as separates.

[Budgie]

Because the class 700 is a commuter train - not a flagship InterCity one.

If you are building a model railway wouldn't you want both express trains and "stops everywhere" trains?

 

In any case the 700s being built for Thameslink are fixed formation 8 and 10 car units (though the forthcoming SWT sets will be 5 cars and the Moorgate replacements 6 cars)

And your point is? The Eurostar is a fixed-formation 20-car unit, yet Hornby sells much shorter versions with no chance of making a realistic full-length train. You can get a full-length Eurostar in N gauge from Kato by buying a basic short 8-car starter set and adding three 4-car extension sets. So it looks like this method of selling long trains has been accepted by the model railway community worldwide.

 

With some being 5 cars in real life you also get the opportunity Bachmann had with the Voyagers - sell a shortened version in a train pack and the extra car(s) as separates.

Which nicely brings us back to Hornby; their Javelin class 395 was sold as a short set with an opportunity to buy the extra cars as separates. And it brings us nicely back to the Electrostar, which could be made as a 3-car set with an opportunity for extra cars as separates.

[AndrewC]

If you are building a model railway wouldn't you want both express trains and "stops everywhere" trains?

 

 

And your point is? The Eurostar is a fixed-formation 20-car unit, yet Hornby sells much shorter versions with no chance of making a realistic full-length train. You can get a full-length Eurostar in N gauge from Kato by buying a basic short 8-car starter set and adding three 4-car extension sets. So it looks like this method of selling long trains has been accepted by the model railway community worldwide.

 

Which nicely brings us back to Hornby; their Javelin class 395 was sold as a short set with an opportunity to buy the extra cars as separates. And it brings us nicely back to the Electrostar, which could be made as a 3-car set with an opportunity for extra cars as separates.

Just a shame that Hornby never followed up the extra coaches for the APT or Eurostar.

[frobisher]

If that is so, why wouldn't they produce models of the Siemens class 700, which are being introduced now?

700's come in 8 or 12 carriage formations; The 707 has 5, and the 717 6 so might be practical, but I can't see the Desiro City units being any shorter than that. 3 operators, 3 liveries so far.

 

The IEP/AT300/class 80X series are in a whole different ball park. Can legitimately be modelled as a 5 car set, will be considerably more widespread and in the public eye, and have the express train cachet. Straight out of the box, you have 4 or 5 liveries (prototypes, Azuma, GWR, VTEC, TPX, Hull Trains) and there will likely be more.

[TRAILRAGE]

For  thode of you whom have had broken handrails or missing wipers on their Vep I 've just come across theese from MJT. The fret also has lifting eyes on it tooso this may just come in handy.

 

Dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/1115.php

[phil-b259]

If you are building a model railway wouldn't you want both express trains and "stops everywhere" trains?

 

 

And your point is? The Eurostar is a fixed-formation 20-car unit, yet Hornby sells much shorter versions with no chance of making a realistic full-length train. You can get a full-length Eurostar in N gauge from Kato by buying a basic short 8-car starter set and adding three 4-car extension sets. So it looks like this method of selling long trains has been accepted by the model railway community worldwide.

 

Which nicely brings us back to Hornby; their Javelin class 395 was sold as a short set with an opportunity to buy the extra cars as separates. And it brings us nicely back to the Electrostar, which could be made as a 3-car set with an opportunity for extra cars as separates.

 

Analysis of past Hornby products shows they have a tendency to go for "fast and flashy" over the mundane. As has been noted the IEP will replace most of the IC225 and HSTs in a couple of years, so the IEP is a natural follow on from that.

 

With regards the Javelin - while it might basically be a fast commuter train, it does have a certain amount of celebrity status about it including being the only UK domestic rolling stock regularly travelling at 140MPH and it also had quite a high profile role in taking visitors to London 2012 games. Although 4 years later both these aspects might have lost their shine, at the time of introduction of the model they would have both enhanced the selling potential as far as Hornby are concerned.

 

Turning to the Eurostar - just how many people have the space to accommodate a full 20 car rake in 00? - not many I would venture and would argue that its only the smaller space requirements of an N guage layout that make such long length trains modelable in the first place. A similar argument applies to the IC225, HST or Pendalino - the expense of producing a full rake versus the amount of potential customers simply doesn't work financially. A 5 or 6 car unit (in 00) on the other hand is a far more realistic proposition when it comes to modellers, hence the approch taken with the Javelin by Hornby or the Voyagers by Bachmann. The IEP nicely fits into this ethos as a basic 3 car set can be sold in trainpacks with extra cars available to make up a prototypical unit and still make the finances work.

 

As for the 'stops' everywhere trains - take a look at most years Hornby releases - such trains are conspicuous by their absence (though this is starting to be addressed with some of their recent steam era stuff).

[Southernman46]

With regards the Javelin - while it might basically be a fast commuter train, it does have a certain amount of celebrity status about it including being the only UK domestic rolling stock regularly travelling at 140MPH and it also had quite a high profile role in taking visitors to London 2012 games. Although 4 years later both these aspects might have lost their shine, at the time of introduction of the model they would have both enhanced the selling potential as far as Hornby are concerned.

Hopefully all the kids who now get whisked in a jiffy from East London to Margate for a day at the seaside during the summer holidays will be pestering their parents for a model of the train they went there in for Xmas ..................

[metadyneman]

To be fair chaps..this thread is about the Hornby VEP not the Eurostar or any other EMU. Speculation about what might come in the future from model manufacturers has no home on this topic unless it's to do with the VEP. :-)

[Budgie]

If they motored both driving cars of a 9-car unit, how would the unit negotiate second-radius curves? I wouldn't like to see it derail because the motors run at different speeds, however slight the difference.

[Budgie]

Sorry, I thought you were talking about Hornby releasing a model of a 9-car iep, not for someone converting a class 395 into a model of one of them.

[frobisher]

I may be incorrect here but I think Hornby possibly has the body tooling for the iep class 80x in that they produced the class 395 emu which are almost if not a very close match so theoretically it could be possible to create an iep unit from the 395 bodies and drive chassis.

Very different, despite being the same family. The 395 carriages are shorter, the door positions are different and the driving cars are differently laid out for starters. What Hornby do have is the presumably the good will from Hitachi already. I'm not expecting to see the AT300 based units come from any other manufacturer saying that.

[south]

Hope Hornby will do more 4veps. I have 3 and understand there were problems with them but i like them and think they should do more

[TRAILRAGE]

I agree with as south. I have 3 Hornby Veps. They all look like a Vep and run well enough but improving the running qualities of the bogies is not difficult, use 5-BELL's method. Drill out the axleboxes and fit flangeless bearings.I have done this to several Bachmann wagons as well as they wear out. The motor is obviously not as smooth as the Bachmann Cep but I run my NSE/Blue Veps with a Hornby 73 in push pull mode (one of which is fitted with Vep trailing bogie wheels and now sits at the right height) with no issues and my B/G Vep with my Heljan 33/1 again with no issues.

 

Cheers Trailrage

[south]

Well said trailrage it looks like a vep and that is good enough for me. If people want to modify all well and good and i understand everyone is differnt but for me running with a 33 or 73 or on there own unmodified is still good. I enjoy watching the units go by. They really take me back to the 70s and 80s. Please Hornby can we have some more. Blue grey for me please. A very happy southern modeler

[JSpencer]

Well said trailrage it looks like a vep and that is good enough for me. If people want to modify all well and good and i understand everyone is differnt but for me running with a 33 or 73 or on there own unmodified is still good. I enjoy watching the units go by. They really take me back to the 70s and 80s. Please Hornby can we have some more. Blue grey for me please. A very happy southern modeler

Blue grey was the last one did. Kernow got rid of a batch in February 2015 for £100 a throw.

[south]

I know lol i got one from there

[south]

Would by more but waiting for Hornby to do new numbers of blue grey. Have emailed Hornby and they said they had know plans to do more at the moment. Fingers crossed for 2018

[dale159]

I can't remember exactly where or when, but I saw or heard somebody once suggested putting a VEP into a Snooker cue case in order to reduce the need to uncouple it and protect the delicate couplings.

 

Last week I bought such a case 48 inches long on eBay which arrived today, so I have modified it to accommodate my VEP.

 

I removed the foam that came with it and tried to cut it down but it was too thick so I have taken it out and replaced it with some very fine foam sheet I got from Hobbycraft and held in place with double sided tape, it is also packed with foam top and bottom.

It's a very snug fit with i guess less than 1mm spare in the width so the unit doesn't move at all inside even with 3-4 inches of empty space at each end.

 

Just need another one for my NSE VEP now!

 

Dale

[SRman]

That's quite ingenious.

[daveymills]

Like it !   Please can you provide the make of the case ?

[dale159]

Like it !   Please can you provide the make of the case ?

Hi, whilst I am no Ronnie O'sullivan I can only go with what the Ebay listing says, which says that it is a cue craft. I suspect that most cue cases would be of similar internal dimensions and so would be suitable.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Dale

[JSpencer]

In this weeks news letter Kernow have found an all blue one in the back of their store cupboard! £99.

 

Edit: Gone already.

Edited March 3, 2017 by JSpencer

[leopardml2341]

Like it !   Please can you provide the make of the case ?

Or even a link to the eBay store please?