Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

[barison82]

Much like the long forgotten Class 466 Networker, I think it very unlikely the VEP will ever appear again.  As for other third rail EMU's, a four car will probably be in excess of £300 now and that is before DCC, sound and all the rest of the technogubbins is thrown in whilst the two car BIL and HAL units seems to have petered out judging by how they wound up being dumped by Hornby at around sixty quid a pop just to get rid of them.

 

I fear that you are correct John. It would easily get to the £300+ mark these days which puts it out of reach of many, in these austere times. And yes, there appears to be a large surplus BIL and HAL units hanging around at the £60 mark, I nabbed a couple of HALs last year from a well-known box-shifer for £62 a throw, I was very surprised to see that they are still available at that price now, and in large quantities.

[barison82]

I wish Hornby had released replacement interiors for the DTC vehicles to get those corridor side windows. I have successfully hacked one unit using older Triang-Hornby composite interiors for the first class sections. I really wanted to avoid the hard work if I could with the other blue and NSE units, but it looks like I have to do it the hard way after all.

 

 

 

I wish they did that too. I was thinking of getting hold of a Hornby Mk1 compartment carriage and using the interior from that as a donor, I think others have done this as well. Not sure how much hacking it involves.

 

[JSpencer]

I fear that you are correct John. It would easily get to the £300+ mark these days which puts it out of reach of many, in these austere times. And yes, there appears to be a large surplus BIL and HAL units hanging around at the £60 mark, I nabbed a couple of HALs last year from a well-known box-shifer for £62 a throw, I was very surprised to see that they are still available at that price now, and in large quantities.

I have all three VEPs and five 2-HALs and 2-BILs. Most of them brought at the bargain basement prices. I cannot justify getting more Hals and BILs to be honest.

 

The Bachmann 4-BEP will doubtless be above £300, and is the last unit I need for the boat train, so I will get this. we would have to be in a seriously poor new southern items year for me to spend such money on other new 4 car EMUs.

[Rich Papper]

I wish Hornby had released replacement interiors for the DTC vehicles to get those corridor side windows. I have successfully hacked one unit using older Triang-Hornby composite interiors for the first class sections. I really wanted to avoid the hard work if I could with the other blue and NSE units, but it looks like I have to do it the hard way after all.

 

I'm sure someone has already mentioned it somewhere in this mammoth thread - but for very easy and minimal hacking replacement of the corridor bit of the DTC get a Repica Railways interior. Website here. RS002C is the one I bought I think. Almost exactly the same size (and certainly neater than I could cut out the windows), you only need one to do both ends of the VEP so for £2.15 and a spot of postage, if you don't see them at a show, all you need is a bit of paint.

[Mike Storey]

I'm sure someone has already mentioned it somewhere in this mammoth thread - but for very easy and minimal hacking replacement of the corridor bit of the DTC get a Repica Railways interior. Website here. RS002C is the one I bought I think. Almost exactly the same size (and certainly neater than I could cut out the windows), you only need one to do both ends of the VEP so for £2.15 and a spot of postage, if you don't see them at a show, all you need is a bit of paint.

 

Absolutely. I have purchased the same, plus the Replica motorised low profile chassis are now back in supply, and I have bought one of those to attempt a complete transformation of the VEP. However, I have to say that, in running (albeit only on my roundy test track at present) the flaws in the vehicle are not actually really noticeable from normal viewing distance, whereas the cab fronts are (when stood alongside a 4 CEP particularly). There is/are (? grammar expert please) more than one cut and slice solutions to this on this thread alone, and one day I will summon the courage....

[Mike Storey]

I haven't tried 'consisting' a VEP and a CEP yet - that could take a bit of adjusting of decoders to match the types.

 

I have had no problems in that respect, using both a Signa-Trak ACE and a ZTC 611, although I used ESU sound decoders in each. The number of pins seems to make no difference in performance in consist mode, but I turned off the sound function on the VEP. If you use different makes of decoder, I guess that could require adjustment.

[barison82]

I have all three VEPs and five 2-HALs and 2-BILs. Most of them brought at the bargain basement prices. I cannot justify getting more Hals and BILs to be honest.

 

The Bachmann 4-BEP will doubtless be above £300, and is the last unit I need for the boat train, so I will get this. we would have to be in a seriously poor new southern items year for me to spend such money on other new 4 car EMUs.

 

I'm nearing a similar amount for the HALs, those prices were just to good to miss so provided a good fleet building opportunity. But same here, space is also one limitation I have as well. I'm waiting for the BEP as well, to tack onto x2 CEPs & an MLV, for the boat train setup. But I'm getting ready mentally to expect £300+ for this as well!

[barison82]

I'm sure someone has already mentioned it somewhere in this mammoth thread - but for very easy and minimal hacking replacement of the corridor bit of the DTC get a Repica Railways interior. Website here. RS002C is the one I bought I think. Almost exactly the same size (and certainly neater than I could cut out the windows), you only need one to do both ends of the VEP so for £2.15 and a spot of postage, if you don't see them at a show, all you need is a bit of paint.

 

That's a good shout and I forgot this option - I think it was mentioned before, yes

[Gwiwer]

The Bil / Hal scenario smacks of glut.  Repeated reissues in an attempt to capitalise on the costs and generate much-needed revenue for Red Box Towers.  That might or might not have backfired depending how the glut is accounted for.  Yet there is still no Bil in either variant of green fye (some had wraparounds taking yellow to the leading edge of the cab door frame, others had it confined to the front panels) so there might yet be mileage in the tooling.

 

The Vep is very much a curate's egg.  The blue ones were a disaster.  Simon Kohler was asked before they entered production about the motor being visible when it could have been in the brake and the solid compartment walls.  My guess is that somewhere in the design board room he was over-ruled and the thing went ahead.  Its faults are well documented above but it is a Vep and is the only one we have to represent a class of 192 units built.  The b/g one is better but not yet good enough to my mind.  It does beg questions when the Bil and Hal models have been reissued multiple times but the Vep has not been repeated in blue with the current improvements over the original.  Bachmann have after all done with the Cep preciely what Hornby has done with the Bil / Hal and flooded the market.  But again there is no plain blue release (apart from a Modelzone commission which must surely be out of rights by now).  They do however appear to sell well perhaps because they are, quite simply, better.  Only 112 Cep units were built so somewhat fewer in total than the Veps, and fewer than the 152 2Bil units.  

 

If a retooled / suitably reworked Vep were to be offered I am very likely to be interested in a blue one at least.  But it would need to equate to Bachmann standards in terms of accuracy and running to have me part with 300 drinking vouchers or so.  

[woodenhead]

I wasn't going to have a VEP because of the reported shortcomings but I wanted a 4 car unit for my railway and at the time all the Bachmann offerings were above £170 for secondhand and rising so when I saw a blue VEP for about 100 notes I thought 'well what's the worst that could happen' and I got one.  Truth be told, it's on okay model, I think I prefer the HAL/BIL models for the shape/body but it's perfectly fine for me.

 

Then I found a 4-cep for £120, you can see the difference in quality but the VEP still gets equal use to the CEP and the couplings on the VEP appear more robust than the CEP - one has been damaged beyond repair already and I need to split my sets when storing as I like to swap out for steam running.

 

Not sure a SUB will be a good model as very London centric but a 4-Cor would be nice from Hornby

[Gwiwer]

 

 

a 4-Cor would be nice from Hornby

I agree a 4Cor would be nice and it turns up every year on the wish-lists fairly high in the rankings.  But I do not trust Hornby to do it.

[wombatofludham]

Modellers of a nervous disposition should look away now as the following contains graphic scenes of Rule One-ery.

​I've just succumbed to a s/h blue grey 4-VEP.  Notwithstanding the faults identified with the model, and the fact I won't have a third rail layout to run it on, I think it looks fine.  It will be used alongside other Southern milkfloats yet purchased on my proposed LMS period terminus to fiddle yard.  Despite the fact the layout will be "optimised" for the 1933-1939 LMS North Wales area, as it won't have the overhead knitting my other layout is planned to have, and will have semaphores, I figured it could pass muster for a fictional south coast terminal from time to time to exorcise my turd rail interests.  On that basis, any shortcomings in the model will be more than matched by the fact it will be running on a very long extension cable to a Welsh seaside resort.

 

Having ridden on a number of VEPs on Railrover holidays in the past I've always liked them so I'm happy to turn a blind eye to the lack of a proper third rail layout to run it on.

[woodenhead]

​I've just succumbed to a s/h blue grey 4-VEP.  Notwithstanding the faults identified with the model, and the fact I won't have a third rail layout to run it on, I think it looks fine.  It will be used alongside other Southern milkfloats yet purchased on my proposed LMS period terminus to fiddle yard.  Despite the fact the layout will be "optimised" for the 1933-1939 LMS North Wales area, as it won't have the overhead knitting my other layout is planned to have, and will have semaphores, I figured it could pass muster for a fictional south coast terminal from time to time to exorcise my turd rail interests.  On that basis, any shortcomings in the model will be more than matched by the fact it will be running on a very long extension cable to a Welsh seaside resort.

 

No third rail on mine either, my preference is Southern steam but I succumbed earlier this year to some blue units for a 68/69 version of my branch excepting that it will be very much a steam terminus with Southern Railway colour scheme - but as it before BR swept away all the steam gubbings.

[robertcwp]

I don't have any third rail either, so I have no real reason to have this. It would benefit hugely from some improvements to the end, such as altering the gangway and gangway door.

 

P1070802am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[woodenhead]

Feels like we are opening the floodgate for VEP anonymous.

 

"I have no third rail, I am a VEP modeller"

[talisman56]

  Its faults are well documented above but it is a Vep and is the only one we have to represent a class of 192 units built.  .  

 

<Pedant mode on>

 

194 units (7701-7894)

 

<Pedant mode off>

 

That being said, I'd love to see one (some) in 2mm scale, but I won't be able to hold my breath that long...

Edited October 10, 2017 by talisman56

[wombatofludham]

That being said, I'd love to see one (some) in 2mm scale, but I won't be able to hold my breath that long...

At least in 2mm you've got the forthcoming GF Class 319 (and the Revolution Class 321 although of little use to Southern modellers) which some of us in the "senior" scale would happily sell a kidney for, especially me as both wear a coathanger on the roof and worked the WCML.

[robertcwp]

<Pedant mode on>

 

194 units (7701-7894)

 

<Pedant mode off>

 

That being said, I'd love to see one (some) in 2mm scale, but I won't be able to hold my breath that long...

Super pedant mode: only 193 ever ran in traffic as such.

[4630]

It’s a good Masternind question.

 

Question: What 4 Vep was built but never ran in that form in traffic?

 

Answer: 7739 which after construction but before running in traffic yielded coaches to form 8 Vab 8001.

 

7739 wasn’t reinstated after 8001 was disbanded in 1975, only 7741 and 7742 which had also yielded vehicles when 8001 was formed.

[guspaul]

In this month's BRM magazine, there is a brief mention that the Hornby VEP tooling is being tweaked to fix some of the inaccuracies.   I cannot find mention of this anywhere else.  Does anyone have any more details?

[JSpencer]

In this month's BRM magazine, there is a brief mention that the Hornby VEP tooling is being tweaked to fix some of the inaccuracies.   I cannot find mention of this anywhere else.  Does anyone have any more details?

 

Odd considering no new VEPs have been announced and the last batch hit the bargain bin dropping from £199 to £99 within 3 months of release. The last batch had some tweeks (the bogies were clipped on the right way but lost the gaurd irons on the end pair, the interiors partitions had cuts for cabin windows - though they used refurbished interior instead of original on this original VEP. It lost the orange curtains. Not addressed was the face and the underscale roof bumps).

[Mike Storey]

It would be good to see it happen, but I cannot imagine there is sufficient market left for another run, especially at the new increased prices of 4 car EMU's? Many of us have simply learned to live with the flaws, or modified them, as per advice on here.

[JSpencer]

It would be good to see it happen, but I cannot imagine there is sufficient market left for another run, especially at the new increased prices of 4 car EMU's? Many of us have simply learned to live with the flaws, or modified them, as per advice on here.

 

Agree - 3 is enough for me. A new forth would doubtless be around the £250 mark with is what I paid for the 3 I've got combined.

[Ian J.]

I would be happy to see fixes, especially to the ends. If they can get the unit propery right I'd buy two or more in blue/grey mid 1980s guise.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Ian J.

[steve1023]

Plenty of liveries available to do on the 4VEP. Good news if true.