Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

[pete_mcfarlane]

One option might be to use the corridor connectors with integral doors from the MJT cast ends: link here. Hopefully the Hornby ones are separate mouldings.

[spamcan61]

Thanks for that Ceptic, love the smiley on the buffer :-)

[Ian J.]

It would appear that Hornby have made their gangway door flush with the unit's front 'face', then added the surround on top. That would certainly alter the character of the face of the unit.

[surfsup]

It would appear that Hornby have made their gangway door flush with the unit's front 'face', then added the surround on top. That would certainly alter the character of the face of the unit.

 

Looking through a couple of photos of Southern Units - It would seem that is the case!

 

Here's a phot of the Save The CIG groups 1399 (From 1496) in Eastleigh Works (photo taken with permission!) Where you can see how far foward the door is...

 

 

Rich

[Godfrey Glyn]

Looking through a couple of photos of Southern Units - It would seem that is the case!

 

Here's a phot of the Save The CIG groups 1399 (From 1496) in Eastleigh Works (photo taken with permission!) Where you can see how far foward the door is...

 

 

Rich

 

In that photo the door appears to be even further forward than in these two examples, taken at the Eastleigh Open Day in 2009

Godfrey

[frobisher]

In that photo the door appears to be even further forward than in these two examples, taken at the Eastleigh Open Day in 2009

 

It's al to do with how compressed or otherwise the gangway connection is - if you look 3417's is a bit squiffy (being more ot at the top) and 1399's is actually very compressed. But that's the whole point of them, the are a "bit floaty" to have some give in them and provide a bit of articulation whilst staying flush withone another when coupled up It looks like the door doesn't float (dunno - just suposition...) hence the variation.

[steve1023]

The reason the door looks like its further out on the photo of 1399 is because part of the gangway has been removed - it does however show perfectly that the door is not flush with the cab 'face'.

[Charlie]

I also think that the lack of a black line between the two "sections" of the gangway giving the appearance of a single piece rather than two overlapping pieces also detracts from the front.

[Gwiwer]

Based on the images seen so far I agree though that would take 10 seconds to modify with a mapping pen.

[kipford]

Latest issue of Model Rail (arrived today) has a review of the blue version. Leave you to your own opinions but I am not canceling the order for my NSE version.

 

Dave

[RJS1977]

Given the number of livery variations, I still think it's a pity you can't buy rolling stock unpainted. Seems a waste to pay for Hornby to paint it, only to then strip it all off and repaint!

 

Ideally I'd want one in NSE colours on one side and SWT colours on the other!

 

 

Richard

[The Evil Bus Driver]

As the gangway as modelled appears to be a separate piece it's a shame they couldn't have modelled the door further forward as a part of that.

[Pugsley]

As the gangway as modelled appears to be a separate piece it's a shame they couldn't have modelled the door further forward as a part of that.

True, but on the plus side the fact that it is separate should make sorting the problem out easier.

[Charlie]

Think after reading the reviews I will go for an NSE one. It would also seem from the Hornby ad's that the gangway will be fully black too.

[Electrostar]

In addition to the comments about the gangways, I looked at the photos in Model Rail and Hornby Magazine and thought the yellow front ends of the VEP looked chunky compared to the Bachman CEP. I couldn't quite put my finger on it until I looked at the pictures of prototypical VEPs on daily service in both mags and I realised it's the cleanliness of the pipe recesses on the model that are perhaps deceiving the eye. I know the pictures posted earlier in this thread show units with very clean recesses but my memories are of grubby units. Those modelers confident enough to weather (ie most of you guys on here, but not myself) will probably end up with a product that very much resembles what so many of us saw in daily service, where the dark cab windows are almost reflected in the darkness of the recesses below them. Saying, that many of the units on Wikipedia also look very clean, so I'm happy to see my theory shot down! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_423

[Gwiwer]

I hear what you say regarding the condition of units in everyday service.

 

A pristine model more or less resembles an ex-works item of rolling stock. Thereafter the model remains shiny and plastic-looking unless we do something about it while the real thing gets dirty pretty quickly. The jumper recesses on Veps (and all similar EMU types) accumulated a lot of filth as anyone who has had to connect or disconnect those jumpers may testify. Because they are recesses most of that never came off in the washing plants. Contrast for example the front end of a 455 which does not have recesses, or even a Cep.

 

The Hornby Vep may well be improved with suitable weathering which can certainly be applied by some (possibly not "most") of us here or can be commissioned from a business though usually at not insignificant cost. The Bachmann Cep also benefits from weathering but does not have the large dirty rectangles which are the jumper recesses so the yellow end (where carried) is more evenly dirtied.

 

I am still waiting to see a Vep model, which will no doubt arrive here in due course, before making a decision on purchase as I am keen to have a blue one but not if it simply doesn't stand comparison against the Ceps and EPBs with which it would share tracks. Weathering is a personal thing. I was very hesitant to try anything in case I irrevocably trashed the item. But with small steps I have become more confident over a couple of years and would now feel quite happy about tackling a Vep. It's all part of the continual learning process which is railway modelling.

[Red Fox]

Some pictures of the NSE version on Nigel Burkin's blog along with some of the BR Blue version. http://nigelburkin.wordpress.com/

The cab of the NSE version looks odd I think because of the lack of the painted on line between the gangway segments and also in those pics the headcodes haven't been put on.

[gelboy45]

Although I agree that the issues mentioned are a worry can we really accept SOLID (!) corridor walls to the 1st class compartments?

 

Gerry

 

;0(((

[John M Upton]

Towards the end of VEP operation, the issue of accumulating muck in the usual areas on the fronts was at least partially addressed by painting the jumper cable recesses black and also adding the black 'flat cap' across the top, the latter initially only applied to the 13xx series 'Greyhound' 4-CIG's but later spread to 63 series stock generally.

[Gwiwer]

adding the black 'flat cap' across the top ..... later spread to 63 series stock generally.

 

Having seen the images of the NSE Vep I was going to raise that as a concern as I know the "cap" was only applied at first to the "Greyhound" Cigs as you say. I don't have notes of when it became more widespread.

[John M Upton]

Rough guesswork for the spread of the black caps to the remainder of 1963 stock seems to have been about 1993 onwards, this being based on when I was at College/University and Network SouthCentral of blessed memory came into being.

 

EDIT: This shot shows 4-CIG 1705 at Redhill in 1995 on an Arun Valley job with black cap:

Note also the black painted jumper cable recesses and the black cab window edging.

 

Later Connex [Genuflects wildly at saying that cursed name! ] started painting what I christened 'balaclavas' on the front ends of CIG's and VEP's still in NSE livery that apparently had some sort of interior deep clean though I could never see the difference. It was not unknown for some units to have the balaclava one end and not the other as Connex did rather descend into a shambles pretty quickly.

 

SECOND EDIT:

Found a balaclava:

This admittedly is also a CIG which subsequently had '1' yellow patches applied to the cab ends at one end only when Connex started to declassify 1st class at one end, VEP's never got these. However this is the only balaclava NSE unit I have found a picture of so far!

[John M Upton]

Oh, another little variation I have noticed (and just proves that quite frankly no two VEP's were the same in later years!!) the overhead warning flashes on the cab fronts were generally only applied to South Eastern allocated ones when the OHLE in the Dollands Moor and Ashford area beneath which they passed was installed for the Channel Tunnel.

 

South Central and South Western division units never had them unless it was a South Eastern one on loan or had been recently transferred.

[phil gollin]

.

 

Was there a reason for the angled recess at the bottom of the centre door ?

 

Thanks

 

---------------------------------

 

(Yes, I agree a little adjustment to the front door position on the corridor connection would make them look much better.)

 

.

[Gwiwer]

.

 

Was there a reason for the angled recess at the bottom of the centre door ?

 

.

 

Drainage I believe. Facing "front" the gangway door panels would have collected quite a fair amount of rainwater, and a certain amount going through washing plants, which in the course of events ran downwards. Around the fixed panels it didn't matter where this went but with the doorway opening into the vestibule and adjacent to the driver's cab there was a potential for water to enter beneath the doorway and both flood and damage the internal floor. Instead it was caught in this angled recess and diverted away via a drain hole

[zarniwhoop]

Although I agree that the issues mentioned are a worry can we really accept SOLID (!) corridor walls to the 1st class compartments?

 

Gerry

 

;0(((

 

No, of course not! That's why we're modellers - a piece of plasticard, or maybe even an interior from Southern Pride (I haven't used them yet, but it looks a possibility). And while we're at it, paint the bulkheads of the seating unit so that they're not that weird blue (and, maybe, the seats too) - based on the pictures in RM. I haven't ordered any VEPs - I was waiting for the reviews, and now I'm abroad on holiday - but I see no reason not to buy a couple (the red light in one DTC, white in the other, is silly but doesn't inconvenience me since I plan to have a roundy-round layout with proper headcodes / tail blinds or tail lamps). I can even just about stomach the weird couplings, although I might bin them!

 

And the "motor in the saloon so we have space for a DCC decoder" ploy really annoys me - like Mr BachmannÅ› CEP, why bother fitting interior lighting if you do that ? But the alternative is to use MJT sides. I've got enough troubles with my (first) 4-CIG using that approach, I'm glad that I now don't have to contemplate doing door hinges and commode handles for a VEP - that would make me even more mad.

 

However, this does make me wonder what sort of weird curve-balls Hornby will throw into the 5-BEL. But that is just a worry at the moment, and shouldn be speculated on in _this_ thread. Meanwhile, the price of the VEP terrifies me!

 

ĸen