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Hi guys ive ben in engineering for 30 years and im a very keen model engineer , ive got a large lathe , mill and pillar drill, but i would say to you all you need is a good quality lathe with a mil drill attachment, there are loads on the market today , just check out MACHINE MART their catolouge is free .and check a model engineer or engineer in miniature mag , they are ful of adds, your be suprised what you can build when you get going ive done a 7.14 inch gauge loco and a 3 inch scale traction engine most of the big milling was done in a 4 jaw chuck on the lathe , and like this model railway hobby is quite addictive, there are some m e forums that are quite good ill put there names on here when i check the correct address.

Happy modelling Garry mswjr

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If starting from scratch now, then the Sieg 7x10 miniature Chinese made lathe is good value.

post-6750-127721920576.jpg

 

 

It has been around a fair time, in a thousand assorted retail names, as well as Sieg, and comes in a 7x12 variation as well. A new 7x16 also exists on the US market and should be here soon. The very latest versions come with brushless motors as well. Plenty appear on Ebay in the US, not so much over here.

 

 

Arc Euro Tools have started importing them as the Super C3 Super Lathe: Here

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There is a Hobbymat on Ebay at the moment hidden away in the "Business and Office equipment section" so you might get a bargain?

 

Hobbymat with Milliing doofer

 

Worth a silly bid?

 

Disclaimer - Nowt to do with me, just spotted it and tryin' to be neighbourly!:pardon_mini:

 

 

 

Hi,didn`t know that that milling attachment was still being made.I have the stand alone version with the compound table.I do not know if the one on ebay came with a collet chuck & collets to take metric end mills because its a no.1 morse taper & when i bought mine in the late 1970s,there were not any cutter holders available.I had to buy a collet chuck & collets to use it but it`s a reasonable m/c tool but couldn`t be used as a mill/drill because the collet chuck is screwed to the face plate with 3 allen screws so you would have to buy a bench drill as well.

 

Cheers,Ray.

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I would strongly advise buying a lathe,after all,with a vertical slide & an endmill in the chuck you have for starters,the best of both worlds.

It also depends on the scale of models that you want to build.I have a Myford Super 7 which has been used for machining parts for "n" scale up to my long running project,a 5" gauge live steam WD Austerity 2-10-0 Although i think that will see me out even if i could lift it!! :( .

 

Cheers,Ray.

.

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With reference to the Sieg mini lathe............ Arc Euro also offer the tailstock lock modification, new steel gears if needed, and roller bearings as an option for the headstock. All are nice, but not absolutely required to get things running and could be retro changed later on.

 

 

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With reference to the MD65 it does in fact take all chucks easily, there is a drawbar to fit the back of the morse tapers to lock safely, the only issue is some no 1 morse tapers are hard to drill and tap, and need heating red hot to soften first.

 

This converts it properly to a vertical light mill and drill machine.

 

For proper holding of mills the nose takes adaptors for standard small end mill holders, easily modified in the lathe. The three set screws lock it in place on the register, no problems in mounting at all.

 

The collet chuck is a standard type and very expensive, and still made. It fits via an adaptor plate, easily made if you want on the lathe. I bought one whilst the East Germans were still importing them.

 

Also made are FE made direct morse fitting pull collets in metric sizes, and these take drills or light mills and burrs.

 

The only restriction Prazi placed on the mill is fly cutting, they do no recommend it, due to out of balance and vibration with the geared head version. It will work with fly cutters for gears as long as the work is brass, and the cuts light.

 

Stephen.

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It's nice to Drool over all these nice bits of equipment, but does anyone know how to use them rather than just look at the pictures, because I don't and I thought this was what the thread was about :(.

 

Martyn.

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It's nice to Drool over all these nice bits of equipment, but does anyone know how to use them rather than just look at the pictures, because I don't and I thought this was what the thread was about :(.

I wouldn't classify myself as an expert but I do use the lathe for various projects. However there's so many thing to cover it's a case of where to start? What do you want covered?

 

As in the earlier thread I'd recommend Gerald Wingrove's book on Unimat projects - it takes you through the basics on turning and takes you through 10 simple projects. They build up so the later projects use the tools you've just made in the earlier projects.

 

Adrian

 

 

 

 

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Once you have got the lathe you will find uses for it!!!! buffers, buffer shanks, funnels, domes, handrail knobs, wheels, whistles, smokebox doors, fittings, milling chassis from solid, frame spacers, making nuts and bolts, washers, and rivets...the list is endless, and mainly from scrap materials if you try hard to find and save them.

 

There are lots of websites for steam engine models, and related projects, and lathe projects in general.

 

post-6750-127724141496_thumb.jpg

 

 

All the milling and drilling on this brass bogie for a GWR railcar is done on my MD65 milling machine. I do use a bigger lathe, it is a Warco 1324, but all lathe work on this could be done on a Sieg or equivalent lathe like a Taig, Toyo, Hobbymat or Unimat.

 

The mills used are solid carbide burr sided mills 3mm diameter, very wear proof!!.. they fit in the collet chuck.

 

Stephen.

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It's nice to Drool over all these nice bits of equipment, but does anyone know how to use them rather than just look at the pictures, because I don't and I thought this was what the thread was about :(.

 

Martyn.

 

 

Fair point,list some questions & we will endeavor to answer.

 

Ray.

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Well I for one do not have the faintest idea when it comes to milling, and what the benefits of horizontal over vertical (angle plate ?)

 

Here's a good diagram of a horizontal mill.

 

http://www.technologystudent.com/equip1/hmill1.htm

 

Horizontal mills were normally used to remove large amounts of metal so were generally built like the proverbial brick you-know-whats :) . If you take off the overarm assembly and replace the arbor with a shorter one that will hold a chuck or faceplate, and mount a tool holder on the table, then you have a lathe. The "X" direction of your table is your cross-slide and the "Y" direction is your longitudinal feed. One advantage of using a horizontal mill as a lathe is that you can swing very large diameters.

 

To use a horizontal mill as a "vertical" mill, you mount an angle plate on the table to provide a surface (normally) at right angles to the arbor so that you can drill and mill like a vertical mill or drill, but in the horizontal position. Mounting a vertical slide in a lathe provides the same facility.

 

The only possible drawback is that it is not easy to provide a tailstock so turning between centres and drilling from the tailstock is not easy. You might be able to use or modify the overarm to provide a centre, and you could always mount the equivalent of a tailstock chuck on the table, but these operations could be a bit of a fiddle.

 

Jim.

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I suggest to start with the basics, after addressing safety stuff that is ;) Things like how to set up the device for a specific type of operation, what tools you need for various operations and materials, what intermediate steps to make for reaching the desired endresult, all basic stuff I'd think :) (I have some basic knowledge of milling, but not much and no practical experience)

 

 

 

Hi,I think for starters,forget about milling m/cs until later.I built most of a live steam simplex on a lathe that i bought for £25 & a Black & decker drill in a stand.

 

What you will need for your lathe is a 3 jaw chuck & a 4 jaw independent chuck & a set of carbide tipped turning tools & if you have a bench grinder,a green grit wheel for sharpening & a small tailstock chuck,up to 1/4" capacity,for the smaller scales,these should give you a great start.

 

Have a look at Chronos or RDGtools,Iv`e just started using rdg for some carbide tips & have found their service excellent & more to the point,you get a 5% loyalty discount which i have just used.

 

Happy turning,Ray.

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I suggest to start with the basics, after addressing safety stuff that is wink.gif Things like how to set up the device for a specific type of operation, what tools you need for various operations and materials, what intermediate steps to make for reaching the desired endresult, all basic stuff I'd think smile.gif (I have some basic knowledge of milling, but not much and no practical experience)

 

 

OK Dutch Master,

 

on of the first basic point on a mill (vertical & horizontal) you have quite alot of cutting force on a small cutter for us (in my old days a cut of 3/4"deep at 12" per min. with a 12" dia. cutter where not uncommon, the job would have been about 10" wide.

But cutting a key-way with a 1/4" cutter I would rough out first with a 5/32" or a 11/64" cutter, this may have only have been to a depth of 1/8" finished size, the roughing out may have been in three cut of .04" but the finish cutter would have been to full depth in one cut.

 

Setting your M/C vice. Clean the table and the base of the vice, bolt it down, now clock it up. Slacken one bolt so that it's nipping one side, run the clock along it so that you get 'zero' at both ends then tighten the less tight bolt down then check again. The reason for having a tight bolt and one slackened bolt is the tight bolt acts as a fulcrum point so that you know witch side of the vice to hit it from (use a rubber mallet for this or you will bruise the bottom face).

 

For profile milling a set of frames. I have used the following (not the only way). Lets say the frames are 200mm long and 24mm high, with axle centers at 25+50+50+50+25mm. Cut them out of brass approx. 1" x 1/32 and about 8" long, solder them together, not just spot soldered. M/C one edge the top so that it is true.

 

Now mark them out, to give you some guide lines. dont center pop the axle centers. Remove your vice from the M/C table clean it up a gain. using some good double sided sticky tape and your table slots (to do this use some table stops,these are lengths of metal that are a good fit in the table slots) to align it stick some 60 or 80 thou plastic card to the M/C table (about 250 X 30mm), withe the table stops in place and sticky tape on your "frames" stick them down. Remove the table stops.

 

Cutting the frames. Using a 4mm end mill or a Clarkson FC3 cutter of 4mm Dia.

 

Your first cuts are the top of the frames where you have had the table stops you wont need to remove much metal about 0.1mm but do it in say two cuts. Set your dile to '0' then move over 28mm this is now your bottom of the frames (at the finished size). Cut to this size in small downwards steps (or you can go a bit bigger and go back to this size, but dont forget the back lash in your screw thread). Now true up one end, this will be your datum for your lengths. M/C the other end to length. 200mm + Dia of the cutter = 204mm. Return to your '0' indexes at the first end and top face. Then move in 2mm on both, this will now bring the center of the cutter above the corner.

 

Drilling the axle box centers.

 

Change the milling cutter to a center drill, move in from the top face that the height of the axle centers are say 12mm, then move along 25mm for your firs Axel center then spot drill it, then move along 50mm for your second and 50mm for your third.

 

All the other steps and so on can all be worked out from the first two datums.

 

One of the most important thing to remember is the backlash in the lead screws, unless you have digital readouts on the M/C.

OzzyO.

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Hi Guys,

 

Sorry I think I should of explained my question a bit more exact, I am the proud owner of both a lathe and milling machine it's just that I do not think I am getting the most out of them , if you know what I mean. I was lucky enough to buy a lathe a while back for the grand sum of £20, I actually asked the gent if he was sure and he said yes as he was fed up with it being in the way !!! OK it is not the latest masterpiece of engineering but it has already came in useful a few times ie:- turning down bushes,making bushes, and track gauges, etc. The lathe dates back to 1948 and made by a firm in Shrewsbury called Grindturn, it came with a 4 jaw chuck,face plate and a full set of collets (result !!). She has been well used and a bit tired and the beds a bit slack, but hey we are talking £20 here so I'm over the moon. As for the milling m/c it's a small Proxxon MF70, I just think there are probably much more things I could do with it, and as Christian said earlier I will probably learn more with a good book as there is so much to take in. Like Flubrush has posted a thread on the principles of a horizontal milling m/c and that was great and easy to understand. But it's such a mine field out there that I think I will give the books a try and whatever info and ideas off you guys might have, and as for that GWR railcar bogie of Bertiedog's I take my hat off to you sir !!

 

ATB, Martyn.

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Hi Guys,

 

She has been well used and a bit tired and the beds a bit slack, but hey we are talking £20 here so I'm over the moon. ATB, Martyn.

 

 

Hello Three link,

 

didn't get much time at Halifax but what the heck.

 

20 quid for a lathe yes go for it. If the lathe has Gib strips (some call them Jib strips) and the lathe has a V bed you can tack out most of the wear out by tightening them up, some will have screws and lock nut on the side some will have a tapered trapezoid shape Gib strip to take out the wear.

 

It would be best to drop a photo on here to help if you can.

 

OzzyO.

 

PS. to all I have updated my previous post.

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The Grindturn is a flat top lathe bed, with V under edges, the Gib strips are at the back, with two bolts bearing on them, and should be removed , de-burred, polished and checked to be straight, and replaced, adjusting the bolts till they lock and then back off.

 

A small project would be to replace the steel gib strips with phosphor bronze strip duplicates, easily made from the original dimensions. It makes the movement very, very, smooth.

 

After adjusting, the whole main slide should be free to move at the chuck end, but may be stiff at the other less used end, it is best to set it for the usual area of operation, near the chuck.

 

As long as the back lash in the leadscrew is not wildly loose, forget it, and work against the play! It is never good practice to rely on the screw for measurement and estimated movement anyway, measure it if vital.

 

Later on a new split nut can be machined up in the lathe as a project. An actual worn lead screw might make precision screw making difficult, but not for average users!

 

As it is a flat top lathe bed check no deep marks etc are showing anywhere, and if there are and they have burred edges simply file away with a fine file the depression in the mark matters not a jot, but raised burrs cause jams and tightness. No amount of gentle fine filing and scraping would ruin the lathe bed!!

 

The other thing to check is the main bearing, probably bronze with a hardened shaft, simply back off the adjusting nuts, remove the main shaft, clean everything , lube, and re-assemble, and adjust to get the tightest fit where it will still turn.

 

If the bronze is scored badly, (the lathe may have been near grinding dust etc, ), then a replacement must be made, but you may be able to do it on the adjusted lathe, or get another owner to make it in glacial cast bronze or Colphos. It is unusual for the centre mandrill to score or bend, and most remain usable.

 

Once cleaned and adjusted, check for accuracy, 1/2inch ground steel rod in the chuck, basic checks for straightness, etc, and you will have an accurate lathe. Chucks are totally replaceable, but older ones remain surprisingly accurate, and can have the jaws ground in situ to bring back accuracy, a Dremel motor tool can make a toolpost grinder for such work, with cheap diamond burrs to do the re-grinding.

 

The whole lathe should be the equal or exceed the Sieg Mini Lathe in accuracy, it is not the lathe itself, but the way the older lathes are used that makes them accurate... you have a nice basis for the whole home workshop in this lathe.

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Good idea Ozzyo

 

I have just aquired a Hobbymat MD 65. Where would be a good source to obtain cutting tools etc?

 

Thanks!

Tony

 

Hi Tony,Chronos or RDGTOOLS would seem to be a good start.

 

This thread seems to have got itself bogged down on milling m/cs.

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Thank you for the info Bertiedog it is most appreciated, and below are a couple of photos of the late and various weird bits !!!

 

post-7101-127731033145_thumb.jpg

 

post-7101-127731020431_thumb.jpg

 

post-7101-127731025266_thumb.jpg

 

The weird bits they look like steel pins ? And I think the rod with the point on the end is for aligning things ?

 

ATB, Martyn.

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Thank you for the info Bertiedog it is most appreciated, and below are a couple of photos of the late and various weird bits !!!

 

post-7101-127731033145_thumb.jpg

 

post-7101-127731020431_thumb.jpg

 

post-7101-127731025266_thumb.jpg

 

The weird bits they look like steel pins ? And I think the rod with the point on the end is for aligning things ?

 

ATB, Martyn.

 

It is set up as a collet lathe at the moment and was used to make the steel pins in the tray, probably. Each Collet suits a particular round size, and you have a part set, no worry, they are usually standard types and obtainable or you can make them in the lathe itself.

 

Collet holding is the best possible standard of holding small diameter work accurately without damage to the work, and is used by watchmakers and clockmakers a lot. Mild corrosion or rust on them is nothing to worry about, de- rust and oil them.

 

 

The nose of the Lathe when the collet is removed is threaded to take a back plate and a modern chuck could be fitted if there is not one with the lathe. The first job is to determine the headstock nose thread, usually 8 TPI and find it's diameter, and find a supplier of a back plate or get one made. It may be it matches Myford etc, and life is then easier. The plate is machined on the lathe to take the new chuck, or a S/hand one.

 

Is there a three, (or four), jaw chuck in the boxes?

 

The pointed object is the tailstock centre, fitted to the tailstock end when the chuck is out, and used for " between centre" turning of bars etc.

 

Should all clean up fine, new paint and you have a sound small bench lathe with collets, very useful indeed.

 

Stephen.

 

 

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I think I can see a slotted face plate lying in one of the shots on the left, this is a vital item. It is used for odd shape items where a chuck gets in the way, but more to the point it helps identify the thread used for the chucks.

 

As far as I can see the lathe is not a thread cutting version as the main screw is not continued to a position where change gears could be fitted, but again no worry, most threading is done with taps and dies, and you could use this type as a thread chasing lathe like clockmakers and scientific instrument makers do.

 

Stephen.

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