Arthur's Workshop

[ArthurK]

Arthur's Workshop

 

by ArthurK

 

original page on Old RMweb

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??? posted on Thu May 14, 2009 6:19 pm

 

First a little background; I was born just south of the river Tyne at Swalwell, which is just to the south-west of the present day Metro Centre. I witnessed the last decade of the LNER with gave birth to my interest in railways. I became an enthusiast of the LNER and more especially the North Eastern Railway. In the 1940s NER influence was all around.

When I took up railway modelling the LNER/NER was the obvious choice. My first scratch build was the G5 (no NER layout can be without at least one). Not a wise choice with an X04 pointing backwards and driving the rear axle, but I did get enough lead in the boiler by literally pouring molten lead into it (wrapping the boiler in a damp cloth- what would health and safety have to say about that?) to get the centre of gravity between the driving wheels to stop it falling over backwards. It still runs though it has been through the shops more than once. There were very few kits of NER prototypes on the market. The J72 by Wills was my first followed a little later by the GEM D21. In the absence of anything better I also built the NUcast Q6 (better described as a Q5&1/2). Scratch building began to fill in the gaps, J21, D17, C6 and B16 and were later followed by four 0-6-0s, two J27s a J25 and a J24. I succumbed the buying the etched brass kits as they appeared including the Norton G5 and N8/9 (now in the hands of London Road Models). I became hooked on etched brass in preference to white metal. Retirement in 1991 made more time available and I worked on the Chivers Q6 and D20. However there were other NER prototypes which have never appeared in kit form or only did so for a short time. The Lancaster Q5 and J77 fall into the latter category.

I had spent the last twenty years of my working life with British Aerospace in the CAD/CAM department where I was deeply involved with the software for the various systems. It wasn't therefore too surprising that I should turn to CAD when I decided to produce etchings for the models that were on my wanted list. Over the years I have written my own CAD package tailored exactly to my requirements. It also had the advantage that as my needs expanded additional features could be added to the program. These latter include unfolding and tagging. This would not have been nearly so easy with a commercial program such as AutoCAD, TurboCAD or others.

 

 

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Comment posted by 56120 on Thu May 14, 2009 7:41 pm

 

Hi Arthur

 

Thats a great looking G5 for its age. Would love to see your J21 as they are a fav of mine for the NER branch lines.

 

Cheers

 

Matt

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??? posted on Thu May 14, 2009 10:45 pm

 

Happy to obligue

Here is the J21 about a year younger than the G5. Photo taken around 1971/2.

I decided that this was worth a rebuild and it was stripped down and rebuilt with a P4 underframe. I will post the result but I don't have a photo to hand.

 

 

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Comment posted by jwealleans on Fri May 15, 2009 6:34 am

 

Hi Arthur,

 

Very pleased you've started a thread. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your work.

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Comment posted by twa_dogs on Fri May 15, 2009 6:50 am

 

Hi Arthur, glad to see you starting to reveal some of your secrets. You've got me learning CAD so far having looked at the etches you sent though I think writing my own software might be a leap too far as yet - perhaps betime i"ve read more I might work up nerve to get some architectural detailing done and possibly dare to start the J24 soon. Thanks for sharing.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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??? posted on Fri May 15, 2009 7:30 pm

 

The design of the J73

Wherever possible I start from a works GA. The locos are drawn in full 3D. All the necessary additions to turn the outlines into a practical model are drawn (For example, frame spacers and other non-prototypical additions). I must add at this point (the purists may throw up their hands in horror) that I do not follow the GAs to the letter. Ease of construction and accuracy of outline are my major aims. Inside valve gear may be very nice but life is too short to include everything on the real thing, All visible detail is included.

The line drawing shows the tank, cab and footplate assembly for the J73. I make no attempt to turn the result into a "solid" model with all hidden lines removed. It is not important to achieve the desired result.

I always aim to join the various pieces using tab and slot. This achieves accurate location for all the pieces. Wherever possible the parts are made from folded up sub-assemblies and tabbed together. These tabs are positioned by the program at points that I specify. Creating the flattened parts for etching is also an automated process done by selecting those surfaces to be unfolded and is done after the tags have been added.This requires the metal thickness and the etch allowance as input. An allowance must be added to all free edges as some is lost in the etching process. The second corrects for bends made in the material. For example if a "U" shaped piece is formed from two right angle bends then the result will be a little too wide.

Round parts (boiler and smokebox) are developed into the flat allowing for half the metal thickness on the diameter. The latter amounts to a full millimetre on the width when flattened (4mm scale using 12thou metal); and would otherwise give a boiler which is a little too big. The positions of all handrail knob, chimney, dome etc. are projected onto the boiler before development and appear on the flattened boiler when unrolled.

 

Acknowledgement

At this point I must thank Roger Chivers for passing on his experience with etched brass. He has saved me a lot of trial and error.

 

Once all the parts have been drawn in the flat they are converted to an AutoCAD DXF file and passed over to "FreeHand" (a graphics program as opposed to a CAD program).This is where the close positioning of all parts takes place. All parts are "cut-out" and then tagged together. Etching of the top or bottom surfaces is carried out. The result is a two colour drawing consisting of magenta (bottom etch) and cyan (top etch). The result is sent to film makers. They separate the cyan and magenta layers and produced a film for each. These are then passed to the etchers. The elapsed time from the dispatch of the EPS file until receipt of etched sheet is usually about three weeks. Like most I can make mistakes and an update may be necessary. The worst that can happen is that a complete component within the fret may "drop out". Thankfully with careful checking that doesn't happen too often.

 

 

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Comment posted by robpulham on Fri May 15, 2009 8:51 pm

 

Thanks for sharing this Arthur, I too am interest in dabbling in etching (I am thinking of starting on some etched coach interiors initially) and appreciate you sharing your experiences with us.

 

Thanks

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Comment posted by jim s-w on Fri May 15, 2009 8:59 pm

 

Hi Arthur

 

If you get a chance try Illustrator instead of Freehand. Its much more accurate and easy to use. Plus it renders much nicer on screen. Not a factor that makes a huge difference to many but if you spend hours in front of a screen, it makes a big difference. I used freehand for years and found illustrator a real PITA to get to use at first but I dont regret switching over one bit now.

 

Good stuff BTW

 

Jim

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??? posted on Sat May 16, 2009 8:20 pm

 

In reply to the above. I do very little geometric work within Freehand. All that work is done before Freehand sees it. All the accurate stuff is in the DXF file. Things are moved around, 'cut out' and tagged but that is all.

 

Better the devil that I know rather than one that I don't.

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??? posted on Sun May 17, 2009 6:15 pm

 

The J73 Body

The exciting bit is when the etches arrived inviting me to assemble the bits. Hopefully there are no errors. (In fact it took just two goes with this etch.)

The two body etches are shown.

 

 

I have made the footplate in two layers, the upper layer is half etched to include the flange detail around the sandboxes and also the lamp iron brackets detail. Rivet detail is pressed up from below.

The Lower footplate is a fold up unit. The long fold lines of the footplate angle irons were weakened with a square file until there was a visible trace on the top side. These were folded down 90 degrees, as were the front and rear bufferbeams. The visible portions of the front frames are folded upwards and pass through the upper footplate.

Upper and lower layers are now brought together. Initial positioning of the two is by the front frames but pushing the lamp irons into position gives positive fore and aft location. The tank sides were also pushed into position and held there temporarily by bending over the half tabs on the front and rear. The two footplate sections were then tack soldered together along the angle irons and bufferbeams. The lamp irons and side tanks were then removed and soldering of the footplate completed. An 8BA nut is soldered above the rear fixing hole.[img}

 

[/img]

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Comment posted by Finelines on Mon May 18, 2009 9:49 am

 

Jim wrote:

 

If you get a chance try Illustrator instead of Freehand. Its much more accurate and easy to use. Plus it renders much nicer on screen. Not a factor that makes a huge difference to many but if you spend hours in front of a screen, it makes a big difference. I used freehand for years and found illustrator a real PITA to get to use at first but I don't regret switching over one bit now.

Showing my age, I bought both Illustrator 88 and Freehand 3 and at the time they were almost identical but Illustrator files were enormous and filled my then hard drive with a drawing containing100 rivets. Freehand used 4k!

 

Freehand has remained true to its name it is the closest program I know to an electronic pencil and paper whilst Illustrator has become increasingly difficult to use. One feature of Freehand which I use daily is the inspector which gives me all the details of the object I need in one place, but on illustrator it appears to be scattered to the 4 winds.

 

Sadly it appears that this time it is not going to survive the merger and I am going to be forced to learn Illustrator.

 

Roger

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??? posted on Sat May 30, 2009 8:04 pm

 

After a weeks holiday break I can now carry on with the next stages of construction.

 

I designed the side tanks as a single fold up unit. It works well and locates accurately. First photo shows it loosely folded and ready to solder.

 

 

Next we have the tank soldered up.

 

 

The tanks are offered up to the footplate. No solder yet. Cab front tabbed into position for checking. The left tank has not yet been soldered as can be seen on the next shot.

 

 

Same procedure for the cab rear. Again No solder!

 

 

Couldn't resist trying the boiler to gauge how it will Look. Still nothing soldered!

 

 

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??? posted on Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:53 pm

 

Something Completely Different

 

Changing the topic for a while I also decided to try my hand at the NER Bow End coaches as used on the Newcastle-liverpool trains. These were also used on the Hull-Sheffield-Liverpool trains. Others with Pullman connections were used form Newcastle-Edinburgh trains.

 

The basic sides were straightforward to design apart from the doors which were all inset 3" at the tumbleholm Line. Fortunately all the coaches used the same design of end Vestibule except for those with a brake compartment and the full brake.

 

The biggest problem with these was the solebars and bufferbeams which had 'nasty' little brackets at each compartment wall position (more or less). These are not show on the photos but I will add these at a later date.

 

 

 

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Comment posted by micklner on Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:07 pm

 

Very nice loco and coach, are the coaches to be offered for sale? Any news on the other NER locos pending?

 

thanks

 

Mick

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Comment posted by robpulham on Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:16 pm

 

Hi Arthur, I would echo Mick's comment and offer my interest if you are producing the coaches for sale. They look excellent as does the loco.

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??? posted on Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:23 pm

 

NER Cooches

WATCH THIS SPACE

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Comment posted by jwealleans on Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:25 pm

 

Hurrah! Time to sell the children!

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Comment posted by twa_dogs on Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:53 pm

 

jwealleans wrote:

Hurrah! Time to sell the children!

.... and kidneys, the telly, the cat (much more reliable than the children!), my job (more valuable than the cat but less reliable than the children), the liver (lower market value than anything as yet mentioned, the landrover (designed to collect more cr*p than anything else), politicians (containing more cr*p than anything else including landrovers). Sorry got carried awa' there, tell us aboot the coaches.

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??? posted on Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:16 pm

 

Now back to the J73

 

It is just about time to solder all the bits together but first the various small bits are shown in the naxt photo.

 

 

You will note the the cab front and rear are soldered as sub assemblies. In the photo the coal gate has yet to be added but the brake standard housing is there. The cab back will be fully detailed before assembly

The splashers not yet soldered but showing the method of bending. The front tabs into the footplate whilst the rear sits on a narrow ledge. A bit tight this, I left the soldering of the curved top until a good fit had been achieved at the rear end.

The coal bunker has two options. They were built with open coal rails. For this the upper 'legs' are bent backwards behind the rails and soldered into position inside the bunker. For the plated rails these were removed and the rails and backplate bent and soldered together using the top to achieve good alignment. This assembly was then fixed inside the bunker top.

Also in the photo are the lampirons. This were simply plugged in from below and soldered.

 

The bunker rear (not shown) had the flare at the top formed using a brass rod (1/8" I think) and squeezing into a piece of hard rubber in the jaws of a vice. The rear top lamp and the hand rail were soldered before added it to the footplate and sides.

 

 

Things are looking good now, tanks and front sandboxes soldered. Note that the reverse lever in the cab was added before the right-hand tank was added to the footplate. It was much easier that way. the cab beading was also done in the flat. The footsteps, lampirons and cab handrails are all there.

 

Next job the boiler but you will have to wait 'til next time.

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??? posted on Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:11 pm

 

Another few photos of NER D152 First Class Corridor Coach

 

just to whet your interest the coach is now on its bogies and the etched under frame detail complete.

 

 

Close up of the underframe trussing showing the 'York' truss. Double rods to each end but single thicker rod in centre. This test build lacks the central adjuster on the latter. The queen posts are unconventonal and cross conected by a lateral girder truss. I have had to make an inspired guess here. Some of the Tyneside electrics used the same arrangement.

 

 

Isn't close photography cruel All the excess solder well portrayed. Also the sole bars not properly laminated but it shows the underframe detail and battery boxes.

 

 

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Comment posted by timlewis on Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:21 pm

 

ArthurK wrote:

Another few photos of NER D152 First Class Corridor Coach

 

just to whet your interest the coach is now on its bogies and the etched under frame detail complete.

 

PICT0957.JPG

 

Oooooh, now that looks nice! These are some of my favourite coaches. Don't really need a full Newcastle-Liverpool rake (didn't realise they had Newcastle-Edinburgh rakes as well), but one or two after cascading down to more minor services... I could probably convince myself I needed some. I'm sure I've seen a photo somewhere of a B1 on about a 6-coach train including 2 of these which I think might have been on the Waverley, but I can't remember.

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??? posted on Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:17 pm

 

timlewis wrote:

ArthurK wrote:

Another few photos of NER D152 First Class Corridor Coach

 

just to whet your interest the coach is now on its bogies and the etched under frame detail complete.

 

PICT0957.JPG

 

Oooooh, now that looks nice! These are some of my favourite coaches. Don't really need a full Newcastle-Liverpool rake (didn't realise they had Newcastle-Edinburgh rakes as well), but one or two after cascading down to more minor services... I could probably convince myself I needed some. I'm sure I've seen a photo somewhere of a B1 on about a 6-coach train including 2 of these which I think might have been on the Waverley, but I can't remember.

I wasn't sure about the Newcastle Edinburgh stock until I got several of these coach drawings from the NRM. One was labelled 'Newcastle-Edinburgh' and shows Pullman Vestbule connections. The others were labelled Newcastle-lIverpool and (I think) Hull-Sheffield-Liverpool.

The NERA publications for NER and ECML coach rosters of 1932 show these sets on Newcastle-Edinburgh and Glasgow-Leeds services as well as the services to Liverpool. At that time the NER Restaurant cars were used to Kings Cross with Open Third and First. So that at that time they were well travelled. I believe that they also served with the cross country trains to Birmingham and Bristol, but I would need to check that.

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Comment posted by scottiedog on Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:46 pm

 

British Railway Journal No 34, Christmas 1990, has a very detailed article by C.S Carter on the history and workings of the North Eastern Railway coaches now being developed by Arthur, in kit form. It is well worth getting hold of a copy, if you can find one. The Leeds-Glasgow - Leeds working was replaced by LNER Gresley Stock in 1930/31 - do not know exact date. Ex North Eastern Coaches appear to have been used on the 12.00am Newcastle-Hull return working. The LNER (North East Area) Carriage Roster 1st May 1932 , ufn, to which Arthur refers shows the make up as follows Open 1st, Restaurant 3rd (both detached/attached at York), Brake 1st (4 compts), 3rds x 2, Brake 3rd (3 compts). The Carriage Roster also show another working which could possibly used ex North Eastern coaches, this being the Leeds /Hull/Liverpool Lime Street/Leeds service. The make up for this train being Brake 1st (4 compts), 3rds x 2, Open 3rd, Brake 1st ( 2 compts). A 12w Composite Dining car (Dia 166?) was also used on the Newcastle to Swansea service. A copy of the Carriage Roster can be obtained from The North Eastern Railway Association.

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??? posted on Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:05 pm

 

I may have misinterpeted the East Coast Carriage Working 18 July 1932 but this implies that the Leeds Glasgow was at that time made up from NE stock The Class desciption of the coaches was NE rather the the Dia no. used for Gresley stock, although the first listed is a third (Mon. Fri. Sat.) carrying 48 passengers which would imply 6x8 comp. This cannot be an NER gangway coach as these had seven compartments.

 

On closer inspection the coaches on this train are all several tons heavier than their NER counterparts.

 

Apologies for any confusion.

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Comment posted by Miss Prism on Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:46 pm

 

Some very nice design work here. Can we see what's going on inside the bogies, please?

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[ArthurK]

Arthur's Workshop

 

by ArthurK

 

original page on Old RMweb

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Comment posted by timlewis on Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:20 pm

 

scottiedog wrote:

British Railway Journal No 34, Christmas 1990, has a very detailed article by C.S Carter on the history and workings of the North Eastern Railway coaches now being developed by Arthur, in kit form...........A copy of the Carriage Roster can be obtained from The North Eastern Railway Association.

Thanks for the reminder: I think I've got this issue of BRJ somewhere (and also some articles by the same author in NE Express). I've also got the 1932 Carriage Roster: obviously I need to read more of it!

 

Miss Prism wrote:

Some very nice design work here. Can we see what's going on inside the bogies, please?

Hopefully, given Arthur's preference for springing in loco chassis design, they'll be sprung?

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??? posted on Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:46 pm

 

Miss Prism wrote:

Some very nice design work here. Can we see what's going on inside the bogies, please?

Sorry No photo to hand on this one, but yes it is sprung. I have a design mod to make here as the hangers bearing the bearings aren't too clever as they rely on accurate positioning and solder. I am planning a single spring wire from end to end of the bogie and supported at each end and middle. The new bearing hangers will be similar to those on my NER tenders.

 

There is to be a little redesign of the bogie etch itself as the corners are very weak I broke one corner when I was doing a little adjustment.

 

Instead of a photo of the bogie I have scanned the fret shown below .

 

 

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??? posted on Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:21 pm

 

Let's get back to the J73

 

Time we had a look at the underframe. This is etched from 18thou Nickel Silver.

 

I design to my own interpretation of P4 Standards. Frames at 16mm outside (I know that some use 16.5mm but we do want a little sideplay). Hornblock cut-outs take the 'standard' axle boxes (i.e.5mm) with the top located at 4mm above axle centre.

Various hornblocks can be used, my preference these days is the HighLevel offering but LRM, MJT etc. can be used. In this case Is the LRM version. Of course OO and EM modellers can leave the frames intact. The holes need easing to take top hat bearings.

Again my preference is P4 and as such I wanted to be able to remove the wheels easily but I also want to have the springs visible behind the wheels. Consequently I decided the have the springs detachable as well. I could have used a continous keeper plate with the springs on that but many frames have portions cut away which prevents this option being used, I adopted the approach of having each spring attached to minor spacers each side of the axles to which the springs can be bolted.

 

 

A 'U' shaped spacer is used at the front ensures squareness here, whilst the optional horizontal projection can be use to mount a RTR type coupling. An 'L' spacer is used at the rear. Between , in order, there are two minor spacers for the front springs, then the motion plate, a third Spring spacer for the second spring, then the ashpan spacer and and finally the last spring spacer (not shown). The ashpan spacer doubles up as a mount for the springs.

 

Note that I have made provision for slide bars in the front spacer and in the motion plate. I have made no attempt to represent the internal motion, life is too short, but the slide bars are visible from above.

 

Jumping ahead a bit the underframe in now assembled. The bufferbeam/Frame brackets are in position, also the guard irons front and back These are attached with 0.5mm wire though both frame and guard iron. This is very much stronger than than solder alone. The brake brackets are ready to take the the brakeshoe assembly.

 

The motor is in position driving the rear fixed axle. The front two axles are carried on a pivotted central beam as compensation. The motor is a Mashima 1420 driving through a HighLevel gearbox.

 

A spring unit is shown alongside the completed underframe.

 

 

I used plunger pickups, not my favourite, but a tank engine, it either that or wipers. I am not an advocate of split frames.

 

The brake assembly is a separate unit and attached to the hanger brackets using 0.5mm wires. These will not be permanently attached so that the can be removed if necessary.

 

 

Finally for todays offering a closeup of the motor/gearbox. Motor held by a white variant of bluetack. As this axle is fixed we do not need much flexibility here.

 

 

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Comment posted by mikemeg on Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:31 pm

 

What a cracking thread this is (apologies to Grommit); those coaches look superb. Arthur the J73; are you planning to supply the castings - chimney, dome, smokebox door, etc. or do you recommend another existing supplier.

 

There really is something very special watching someone assemble brass and nickel silver models and these models really do look very special.

 

Many thanks and cheers

 

Mike

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??? posted on Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:31 pm

 

mikemeg wrote:

What a cracking thread this is (apologies to Grommit); those coaches look superb. Arthur the J73; are you planning to supply the castings - chimney, dome, smokebox door, etc. or do you recommend another existing supplier.

 

There really is something very special watching someone assemble brass and nickel silver models and these models really do look very special.

 

Many thanks and cheers

 

Mike

It has never been my intention to supply a complete kit. I don't really have the time or marketing skills for that. However I already have some of the casting masters but things are going slowly at the moment. They will eventually appear but for those not willing to wait I do suggest other suppliers as these bits are pretty standard NER parts. All I would say if other sources are used then please don't ask for a set of (say) J21 whitemetal castings as some of the essential bits may be in lost wax. List everything that you want in detail.

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??? posted on Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:51 pm

 

size=150]All we need is a boiler![/size]

 

We still have to make the boiler. The parts for this and the smokebox are on the next shot.

 

 

In the front is the rolled boiler and the assembled (unsoldered) smokebox. I cheated here, this photo is of the J77 bits but they are almost identical with those of the J73. The smokebox has my own version of spacers. The nomal 'X' shape does not allow a central bolt to bring the smokbnox and boiler together unless the bolt is from the boiler end. The circular boiler former will have an 8BA nut soldered onto its rear and then soldered about 2mm inside the boiler front. A length of half round brass (0.75mm) was first annealed then wrapped around the boiler, flush with the front. An 8BA nut was soldered onto the base of the smokebox. The outer smokebox wrapper was rolled, the half etchlines on the inside eased the forming of the reverse bend and assisted location. I placed the smoke box front down on a flat surface. The wrapper was wrapped tightly around the formers and held at it's base with a clamp. I the worked from the top rear soldering wrapper and former together, always holding both flush at the front. The rearward projection of the wrapper (0.5mm) eased the soldering here. The smokebox was then turned over and solder introduced to the front joint.

That's the easier bit done, now the outer wrapper. Early NER smokeboxes had the wrapper attached to a steel angle on the front. This gave a sharp corner which is apparent on many photos. Later the front plate was pressed with integral flange and the wrapper attached to that.The wrapper was the just over 1" behind the front. It is this that we achieve by using a second wrapper. In BR days round head rivets were used but until then flush rivetting was the norm. The wrapper was located centrally on the inner using the chimney hole as a marker. It was pressed around with the fingers and again held at the bottom with a clamp. After making sure that all was well lots of liquid flux and a smidgen of solder started the joint. More checks then pressing the outer wrapper against the inner, lots of flux and only a little solder I worked my way around to the bottom. I relied entirely on capillary action to draw the solder between the two layers. Then came the cleanup. Any excess solder was removed from the rear or the smokebox former. The boiler has to fit in there.

The Smokebox and boiler were the bolted together. Since the front of the boiler was inside the smokebox wrapper the front of the half round wire was also in there leaving only a quadrant left visible.

To complete the job the top lamp iron and washout plug covers were added and lastly the Joy valve covers were added with tailrods projecting from the front. These were angled slightly in line with the motion plate in the underframe.

 

 

Next we put it all together

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??? posted on Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:38 pm

 

The assembly

 

Now it is just a matter of screwing all the bits together. The cab roof is removeable. It it a tight fit but is also held by the tail end of the Ramsbottom lever.

 

The first shot is a closeup of the cab interior. Note the Reverse lever and cutoff quadrant. The reverse rod is also there although it doesn't go much further than the cab front. Chunk of lead in the bunker. More lead is carried in the boiler and the side tanks.

 

 

Next two shots of the completed thing. Still lacking the boiler fittings. The safety valve cover came from a Chivers D20, suitably modified to correct for the different boiler diameter.

 

 

 

The model is now in a running condition. It lacks the brake gear. I usually leave that off until I ams satisfied that it runs OK without. Crankpings still need trimming as does the spindle for the the front compensation beam.

 

That's all for the J73 for the present. I will post a new picture when I have added all the bits.

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Comment posted by micklner on Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:29 am

 

Hi

Where did you get the parts for the boiler you have already fitted? also where are you sourcing the remainder of the parts needed ?

 

thanks

 

Mick

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??? posted on Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:00 pm

 

micklner wrote:

Hi

Where did you get the parts for the boiler you have already fitted? also where are you sourcing the remainder of the parts needed ?

 

thanks

 

Mick

As I said above the safety valves came from the Chivers D20. I reduced the diameter by wrapping a piece of 'wet & dry' emery around a brass rod (I may have used the actual boiler), then rubbing the safety valve cover 'to and fro' until the correct diameter was achieved. The whistles were from the same source. I used Gibson long handrail knobs to get the correct height. Some masters for the remainder are complete, but still to make are the injectors for the ashpan sides and some backhead detail. I can use some of the D20 lost wax parts. I must make a master for the blower valve and add that to the lost wax sprue.

 

 

The photo above shows some of the boiler fittings made for the Chivers D20. Three types of Safety valves, Ramsbottom, Ross pop with casing and Ross pops without. The other pipe is the steam pipe leading via the cab front plate to the driver's Dreadnought brake valve.

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Comment posted by micklner on Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:18 pm

 

Hi

Very nice set of parts .My question was mainly for the future as i presume acces to Chivers parts will be not possible for other builders ?.

thanks

 

Mick

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??? posted on Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:19 pm

 

micklner wrote:

Hi

Very nice set of parts .My question was mainly for the future as i presume acces to Chivers parts will be not possible for other builders ?.

thanks

 

Mick

I made the original masters for Roger. I am sure he won't mind me getting further copies, but as you will appreciate they don't properly fit the smaller diameter boilers (4' 3" as opposed to 4' 9"). Also the backhead details for the D20 are more complex than those for the J73. The D20 had backhead delivery unlike the older engines where the water was delivered via Clack valves. However some of these details are appropriate for the Q5 discounting the train brake equipment.

As I have said I want to make parts available to purchasers of my etches, both in white metal and Lost wax castings.

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Comment posted by micklner on Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:05 pm

 

thanks great news

 

Mick

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??? posted on Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:54 pm

 

Let's Build a Q5

 

It's about time I started a new thread. I know some of you out there are interested in the etches that I have produced for the Q5. I will outline what I have so far. As yet I have had one build running but as yet it lacks the slidebars and crossheads.

 

To set the mood I offer a couple of pictures of a Q5 that I built earlier. This one was cobbled up from a Chivers Q6 which I acquired partially built. You will do doubt notice this one is built to 16.5mm gauge.

 

Fortunately the build had not proceeded to far. The Boiler was discarded. The footplate and cab were not assembled so that I was able to remove 12" (4mm) from the rear and mount the cab-sides forward by the same amount. I made a new cab front plate to suit the smaller diameter boiler and cab roof with a lower roof radius. The whistles went on top of the roof. A new boiler was rolled from brass (4'9" dia as oppsed to 5' 6" of the Q6). Changes were made to the front frames which project only a short distance from the smokebox front. The latter does not have the saddle as used on the Q6 so that that had to go as well. The Chimney was from the Q6 (or was it the D20). The dome and Safety valves came from the D20 as did the smokebox door. Apart from having to build the steam reverser mounted behind the right-hand sandbox that completed the changes to the body.

The chassis was much easier. I am not sure if it was assembled, but I simply removed 4mm from the rear. The rear 'L' spacer was realigned further forward.

The tender was built as the original. When Roger and I designed the Q6 we used the 3940 gallon tender simply because it was also used by the D20. Also most models of Q6s use the 4125 gallon tender so this one is different!

That's about all for the changes. I think the result is quite acceptable. The only error is that the tender should have a footplate width of 8' not 8' 6" as in the kit. (that error is also on the D20).

The model is powered by a Mashima 1420 flat can motor driving through a HighLevel 55:1 gearbox onto the third axle. Thanks to the sandboxes this is not too obvious but it can be seen in the second photo.

 

 

 

Note the use of Kaydee couplings, I have never been hooked on three link

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Comment posted by timlewis on Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:19 pm

 

ArthurK wrote:

Let's Build a Q5

Yes, let's! Really looking forward to seeing construction photos of this.

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??? posted on Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:00 pm

 

The Body

The Body etches are shown below.

 

 

Sorry about all the figure prints, these have been handled rather a lot!!

 

We start with the footplate. This has a fold up unit for the lower portion with a half etched overlay for the top.

 

 

Perhaps, suprisingly we next move to the cab. Again this has a fold-up box with external overlays with all the beading.

 

 

The window rails are the first to be bent up. These are followed by the 'petals which form the boiler location.

 

 

 

The remainder of the cab is the formed. This basic box forms an essential part of the accurate loction of the upper and lower footplate units. The cab is located on the two and the half tab at the front of the cab bent to secure the two together. See photo below. At the front the visible frames pass though the top layer with fore and aft location being made with the lampirons pushed up from below. I am afraid that this photo shows a somewhat botched upper footplate. This came from an earlier test etch and had a number of push-up rivets missing. I attempted to do these manually but gave up and pushed all that I had done back down again (and it shows!). Neither cab or lampirons are soldered at this stage but the two footplate layers can be tack soldered along the front and rear bufferbeam/drawbeam as well as at the bendown tabs which will later secure the footplate angles. I is essential that the upper and lower layers are firmly pressed together whilst soldering is being done.

 

 

 

The cab and lampirons are then removed and the two footplate layers are soldered permanently together. THese are followed by the footplate angles.The front sandbox/splashers are bent up and soldered in position as are the splasher tops of the second axle. The rear splasher top is left until the cab is in position.

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Comment posted by micklner on Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:30 pm

 

looks very nice

 

Mick

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??? posted on Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:10 pm

 

The next couple of shots show the assembled cab, complete with it's overlays. An alternative front overlay with round windows can be used if modelling the earlier period.

 

 

 

Closeup photography can be very cruel

There is a gap behind the front window to take glazing. The rear window is separate. In most cases this was always open. It is rare to find photos of NER locos with this window closed.

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??? posted on Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:58 pm

 

Jumped a bit ahead with this one, cab now permanently attached, front sandboxes and splashers in place. Ready to fit the boiler in position. The footplate is another test etch. Because of the problems highlighted earlier ther are no push up rivets on this one.

 

 

 

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Comment posted by twa_dogs on Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:26 am

 

Arthur,

 

thanks for the step by step info and pictures. Seeing how you as the designer approach assembly has made the whole prospect of etched brass seem much less daunting. I'm in the proccess of assembling the other components for your j-24. I recall in an email (which my computer has 'lost') you mentioned that the wheels you used on your build were Alan Gibson's. Since the wheel sizes stated in the RCTS are 4' 7-1/4" as per J-27 I've assumed that Gibson's listed for that will do the job (4s55E) but am a little puzzled by the choice of wheelsets for the tender which should be 3' 9-1/4". The list shows 3' 8" 12 spoke or 3' 11" 10 spoke. Which di you go for in the end or is there another manufacturer producing the exact item.

 

Cheers

Steve

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Comment posted by timlewis on Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:40 pm

 

Nice to see Arthur's etches getting more exposure, with the article on the J73 in Scalefour News. Any more progress on the Q5 Arthur?

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Comment posted by Flymo748 on Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:13 pm

 

timlewis wrote:

Nice to see Arthur's etches getting more exposure, with the article on the J73 in Scalefour News.

I looked at the front page of the S4 News, and at first glance it looked like EditorJohn had gone all Art Nouveau with his background. It was only when I looked more closely that I realised that the image was of a superbly drafted locomotive.

 

Very imaginative indeed

 

Flymo

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Comment posted by Horsetan on Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:32 pm

 

Flymo748 wrote:

timlewis wrote:

Nice to see Arthur's etches getting more exposure, with the article on the J73 in Scalefour News.

I looked at the front page of the S4 News, and at first glance it looked like EditorJohn had gone all Art Nouveau with his background. It was only when I looked more closely that I realised that the image was of a superbly drafted locomotive....

By contrast I thought the etches looked familiar, but wondered why EditorJohn had superimposed a J72 over them!

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??? posted on Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:40 pm

 

Horsetan wrote:

Flymo748 wrote:

timlewis wrote:

Nice to see Arthur's etches getting more exposure, with the article on the J73 in Scalefour News.

I looked at the front page of the S4 News, and at first glance it looked like EditorJohn had gone all Art Nouveau with his background. It was only when I looked more closely that I realised that the image was of a superbly drafted locomotive....

By contrast I thought the etches looked familiar, but wondered why EditorJohn had superimposed a J72 over them!

It was a J72 (my photo) simply because I did not have a J73 and we didn't want to infringe copyright by using someone else's photograqph. John wanted a NER loco and that was the best that I could come up with. He did point out the difference in the introduction inside the front cover. I think perhaps that he should have remarked that the J73 is in fact much bigger than the J72. Put them side by side and you will see just what I mean. The J73 is in fact a tank engine version of the J24 although the wheelbases of these two are different.

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??? posted on Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:47 pm

 

A bit more work on the Q5

 

It is some time since I last worked on the Q5 bits but today I got down to it and started on the underframe.

 

The first two shots show the raw parts that make up the main frames and frame spacers. These are from an earlier etch. Three of the spacres have been changed to a 'U' shape to make assembly easier and help in producing a square frame.

 

 

 

The assembled parts.

Some may question the use of so many frame spacers but these are there for a purpose. I model in 18.83 gauge these days and insist that the wheels are removable. As a consquence the dummy springs are separate and bolted to the spacers using 10BA bolts, hence the holes in the spacers themselves. These also form keepers for the wheelsets. This will become clearer later. Modellers in other scales using narrower frame spacering simply remove the cross pieces from each spring unit and then solder the springs directly to the frames.

 

 

An underneath view of the frames. the Cylinder and slidebar brackets will not be soldered to the frames so that the whole canbe lifted as a single unit when the slide bars are attached.

 

 

Then a check that the frames will actually fit under the cab/footplate unit

 

 

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Comment posted by timlewis on Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:02 am

 

ArthurK wrote:

Some may question the use of so many frame spacers but these are there for a purpose. I model in 18.83 gauge these days and insist that the wheels are removable. As a consquence the dummy springs are separate and bolted to the spacers using 10BA bolts, hence the holes in the spacers themselves. These also form keepers for the wheelsets.

An underneath view of the frames. the Cylinder and slidebar brackets will not be soldered to the frames so that the whole canbe lifted as a single unit when the slide bars are attached.

Looking great so far. I'm all for making things removable if possible: it makes such a difference to the enjoyment of kit-building if the designer has already allowed for this!

__________________________________________

[ArthurK]

Arthur's Workshop

 

by ArthurK

 

original page on Old RMweb

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??? posted on Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:01 pm

 

Presented without comment

 

 

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Comment posted by Horsetan on Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:09 pm

 

^

Tennant 2-4-0? No.910?

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??? posted on Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:48 pm

 

Horsetan wrote:

^

Tennant 2-4-0? No.910?

Right first time. It's a Tennant 2-4-0 (LNER E5). It looked like a simple model to design so I thought I would have a go. The Tender is very similar (but not identical) to the 3038 gallon version behind the J24. The main diffence was that it did not have a well-tank so that the capacity was 2651gallons. Can anyone out there confirm the shape of the front of the tender tank. The later tenders had rounded corners to the coal space but the drawing of the Tennant I got from the NRM suggests that it had square corners. My photos of 1463 don't show this.

 

 

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Comment posted by nerfanatic on Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:54 pm

 

One comment Arthur, assuming you will be able to supply etches for the Tennant can you put me down for 2 sets please?.I hoped if asked often enough you would work your magic!

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??? posted on Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:09 pm

 

nerfanatic wrote:

One comment Arthur, assuming you will be able to supply etches for the Tennant can you put me down for 2 sets please?.I hoped if asked often enough you would work your magic!

Of course this is the first test build. It does have problems (don't they always) but most of it went together very well. No problem with the curved footplate once I had got both fixing holes in the right place The rear splahers are difficult. I am changing these to incorporate them into the 'boxes' in the cab in the manner of the front sandbox/splashers on the J77 and J24. That should make things a lot easier to assemble. The rivet strips which I add to the steps are a bit tricky and were the cause of suppressed curses. As usual I provided spares, in this case two complete sets. After losing them in the carpet pile I only just managed to have enough to complete the job but it is worth it. Today I assembled the bits above and the cab front. Will post new photos as I go along. next step the boiler. I will begin to look like a model when that is on. let''s hope that it fits

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??? posted on Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:47 pm

 

Well I rolled the boiler and completed it. Minor problem here There were no spacers for the smokebox on the fret, they disappeared behind a blank piece of the artwork , but here it is, I pinched some bits from a J77. Needs a few more boiler bands.

 

 

Next a trial fit to the cab and footplate. Again a minor problem the cab front should be recessed a little further into cab side sheets. Because if this the boiler was a little too long. A little work with a file and it fitted

Must alter the design so that the cab front is located positively.

 

 

 

The next job was the underframe This is where I found my first serious problem but that is for the next posting.

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??? posted on Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:31 pm

 

More work on the Tennant

 

The underframe went together without any problems except that the motion plate lacks the hole through which the connecting and eccentric rods have to pass, also holes for the weighshaft balance weights. I wonder where they all went. That's life!

When I came to fit it to the body I really did have a problem. The squared off splashers in the cab did not fit the frames. Normally I fit the larger of the cab seats/boxes outside the frames but then none of my earlier etches hace had "working frames" protruding into the cab. For these I could use a simple representation of the frame attached inside the cab and separate from the true frame beneath the cab floor. There was also a problem with the P4 axleboxes and hornblocks. These also protruded into the cab area. Then I did what I should have done earlier and looked at the GA. They had the same problem in real life If my interpretation of the drawing is correct they solved it by adding raised boxes over the axleboxes, so this will be my eventual solution although on the model these will have to be somewhat higher. As for the cab splashers, I am not too sure yet whether to put them outside the frames (that will reduce sideplay for the rear wheels with the possibility of introducing shorts) or bring them to the inside of the frames on put up with them being much wider than the real thing. OO/EM modellers will have to put up with that to a greater degree unless that is they allow the wheels to be visible inside of the cab I don't really think they would want that, it is a very open cab.

 

However enough of that. Below are photographs of the bare underframe devoid of detail. The compenstion beams can be clearly seen If you look carefully you will see the rocking beam for the front axle. It would have had the leading wheels fitted except that I bought a pair of 4'6" driving wheels by mistake. I should have looked more carefully when I bought them. Since driving wheels have a 1/8" axle I could not fit these as a temporary measure.

 

 

 

 

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Comment posted by micklner on Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:32 pm

 

Looks good.

 

How is this motorised in the loco or tender , the reason being I cannot see anywhere for a gearbox to fit in the loco chassis ?? apologies if I am being thick!!

 

Mick

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??? posted on Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:57 pm

 

micklner wrote:

Looks good.

 

How is this motorised in the loco or tender , the reason being I cannot see anywhere for a gearbox to fit in the loco chassis ?? apologies if I am being thick!!

 

Mick

There is the same amount of room as on other of my designs. Using a small motor (Mashima 1020 shown in the drawing) and driving on the front axle through a HighLevel Roadrunner gearbox. The rear part of the motor shaft wil need to be removed in this installation. The is probably even more flexibility if the Roadrunner compact is used. The drawing is crude but it gives the idea. There is probably room for a 1420 if mounted flat. (we can do that in P4)

 

 

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Comment posted by micklner on Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:24 pm

 

Yes a good guess!! I was thick.

I model OO . I never realised the gearbox could run inside the hornblocks and be compensated too. Most I have seen are fitted to a fixed axle. I presume there is enough space between the hornblocks for a gearbox in OO?. How do you get over the problem of pick ups riding past the insulated gap on the drivers (I use Romfords)? or is the up/down movement small enough for this not to happen?

 

thanks for reply

 

Mick

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??? posted on Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:27 pm

 

micklner wrote:

Yes a good guess!! I was thick.

I model OO . I never realised the gearbox could run inside the hornblocks and be compensated too.

How do you get over the problem of pick ups riding past the insulated gap on the drivers (I use Romfords)? or is the up/down movement small enough for this not to happen?

thanks for reply

Mick

There is usually room between OO hornblocks if you want to use conpensation (I believe that you should even in OO). Remember that if you don't you will need some form of spring onthe leading axle of a 2-4-0 or on the bogie of a 4-4-0. It may be necessary to file off the hornblock round end back to the square base. HighLevel gearboxes are quite narrow and there are slimline versions available. If the driving axle is compensated then a stategically placed bit of Blue Tack may provide sufficient flexibility. Failing that supporting the rear of the motor on a pivot will do the trick. This doesn't have to complicated a hinge wire attached under the rear of the motor pehaps using a strap around the motor rear. This will also stop the motor rotating about the driven axle.

There is an easier way of compensation. The axle holes are elongated (vertically) and made to be an easy fit for top hat bearings but not allowing the flange to pass through. A compensation beam is made from brass or nickel about 0.5mm. This is the drilled for the required axle spacing (use the coupling rods as the master). Open up the holes to take tophat bearings. Drill the pivot hole (use the frames if they have the hole there already). Push the bearings in from the outside of the frames, use thin card to separate the frame from the beam then insert the bearings through the beam and solder from behind. The beams are captive. With Romford wheels this is not a problem as the wheels can easily be removed leaving the beams in situ.

If I am using wire pickups I usually have these bearing on the tyre rather than the back of the wheel so there would be no problem of shorting across the insuation gap of a Romford wheel. Having said all that I much prefer to use the so called American system . Shorting out the the opposite side of the wheels on loco and tender using an insulated drawbar or insulated tender underframe. I prefer the latter it then doesn't matter if loco and tender touch on a curve. Yes I know that some people like to pick up on all axles but I have never had a problem with this sytem, more pickups more drag.

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Comment posted by Horsetan on Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:53 pm

 

Given a recent thread, might there be etches for the T1 4-8-0T?

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Comment posted by micklner on Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:27 am

 

Thanks Arthur for the info . If you have any pictures that would be great.

I have a Geo Norton G5 which is a nightmare !! Constantly stop/starting on track yet runs fine on a rolling road. There are no obvious shorts between body and chassis. The chassis on track is just as bad without the body. The motor is not tethered at the moment.

The chassis was built by previous owner. There is slop between the gear box and the hornblocks so much that the motor/box moves from side to side when looking from the front. Is this correct? Its not far being binned and a new 52F Models chassis bought.

I was wondering if the pick ups were riding past the insulating gaps on the Romfords and causing shorts ?as having no experience of compensation there seems to be a lot of up/down movement on the drivers hence my question.

 

thanks

 

Mick

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Comment posted by mlgilbert30 on Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:23 pm

 

Hi Mick,

 

The erratic running you describe sound very similar to a problem I had with a Midland 0-4-4T that I built with a compenstated chassis. As originally built it only had split axle pickup on the driving wheels and ran terribly in reverse because it was unloading the leading drivers effectively only picking up reliably off 2 wheels. Going forward was no problem as all the loco weight was being put on all driving wheels. The solution was to redistribute the weight forward a little and also put a set of pickups on the bogie wheels. It runs great now.

 

Cheers....Morgan

 

P.S. Apologies to Arthur for butting into his thread. There is some fantastic kit design going on here. I only wish I was a NER modeller.

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??? posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:42 pm

 

As I said on another thread I always carry part of the loco weight on the leading axle of a 2-4-0 or on the bogie of a 4-4-0. An 0-4-4 is treated in the same way. I remarked above on a simpler form of compensation. Perhaps this drawing will clarify the method that I have used successfully on my D20. (The beams were included in the Chivers Kit).

 

 

In contast below is the compensation that is shown in the photographs above. With luck I will be able to get the weight on the laeding axle down to about 25% of the loco weight. I may use some of the tender weight to help but there is a very large vacuum cylinder and a smaller air cylinder below the cab. Whitemetal castings for these will add a lot of weight in the right place. The is also the ashpan to fill. This should turn out OK. We want the centre of gravity behind the leading driving wheels but in front of the beam pivot.

 

 

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??? posted on Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:53 pm

 

Horsetan wrote:

Given a recent thread, might there be etches for the T1 4-8-0T?

Life is short, especially when you have reached my age (another birthday today ). There are a number of NER "big" tanks that I would like to do. I have given some thought to the A6 (and its original form the NER W 4-6-0T) and have partially drawn these. Then I shouldn't really ingore the A7 and the A8 (which leads to the NER D 4-4-4) and of course the T1 4-8-0T.

 

At the moment I am concetrating on the Q5, the Q5/2 and the B15. I want these out of the way first.

 

There are still etches for the J73 and J77 available. There might also be a J24 around somewhere. Anyone interested send me a PM.

__________________________________________

[Mallard60022]

Hi Arthur. Welcome back (to my reading anyway!). Belated salutations by the way. Good grief old bean, not only have you supplied us with a huge number of superb pics from those heady 60's NE shed bashes but you are also a master craftsman; those kits - XLNT.

Just to say, have you seen the thread on the possible Q6 from a Bachmann O4 chassis; one of the postings suggests you might produce (I think he meant) a Q7? As this is a lot of work, can I ask if you have ever tried to improve the DJH Q7 offering?

Sincerely, Phil R (he who searches for Quayside information)

[ArthurK]

Hi Arthur. Welcome back (to my reading anyway!). Belated salutations by the way. Good grief old bean, not only have you supplied us with a huge number of superb pics from those heady 60's NE shed bashes but you are also a master craftsman; those kits - XLNT.

Just to say, have you seen the thread on the possible Q6 from a Bachmann O4 chassis; one of the postings suggests you might produce (I think he meant) a Q7? As this is a lot of work, can I ask if you have ever tried to improve the DJH Q7 offering?

Sincerely, Phil R (he who searches for Quayside information)

LNER Q7

 

The Q7 Should come on line next year. I have the second test etches for the body and the first for the underframe. I am posting photos of the first test build I had a few problems at the front end. Hopefully I have corrected those.

 

I have not tried the DJH version so that I cannot comment on that although the comments that have come my way are not too good.

[Mallard60022]

LNER Q7

 

The Q7 Should come on line next year. I have the second test etches for the body and the first for the underframe. I am posting photos of the first test build I had a few problems at the front end. Hopefully I have corrected those.

 

I have not tried the DJH version so that I cannot comment on that although the comments that have come my way are not too good.

 

That's really good news about the Q7. I'll look out for further news. Other posters will be pleased to hear this as well.

Sincerely, C.Onsett

[ArthurK]

More work on the Q5

Did a bit more on the Q5 today Trying to get the underframe bits together. The hornblocks and axleboxes are now complete. The spring units are Are bolted to the cross spacers and the slide bar brackets and brake hanger brackets are in place. Note the brake hanger brackets at the rear of the slidebar brackets.

 

The first shot from above shows the hornblocks and axle boxes in situ, no suspension as yet. I haven't decided whether to use compensation beams or a continuous spring wire beam usins the Chris Gibbon spring attachments on the axleboxes. Time will tell. Sorry the quality of the photo isn't very good. Should have use flash with a shorter exposure.

 

The second view is a similar shot from below. This gives a clearer view of the spring units. These also act as keepers so preventing the axleboxes from escaping.

 

Lastly a trial fitting of the under frame and body.

[micklner]

Very nice

 

Mick

[ArthurK]

LNER J77 (NER 290)

 

by ArthurK

 

original page on Old RMweb

__________________________________________

 

I have transferrred the original post to the new site as a continuation my workshop thread

 

??? posted on Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:27 pm

 

 

These particular etches (unlike the J73) are not recommended for newcomers to etched brass.

 

Designed with P4 in mind, alternative parts are provided for EM and OO.

 

 

 

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Comment posted by timlewis on Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:23 pm

 

That does look nice Arthur. I'm going to resist the temptation though (for now), as I have an Owen Lancaster one in the drawer which I haven't made yet (nor have I made your J73, or several other locos awaiting their turn ). Incidentally, why do you say this isn't suitable for beginners, because of the curved cab side/roof?

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??? posted on Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:29 pm

 

Yes , the cab roof is the biggest problem. I have added bend lines on the rear to assist in getting the bend in the correct place but it is all too easy to form kinks. I have given instructions with the etches as to the best way to do this. It is also tricky to get the cab front into position. The remainder isnt too difficult.

__________________________________________

 

 

 

[ArthurK]

Back to the Q5

 

Time to think of the more fiddly bits. In this case the brake gear. Most of the newer NER locos had a central compensated pull rod. Eight coupled locos had brakes only on the rear three axles. The rear brakes were pulled by a 2:1 ratio cross beam behind the brake stretcher. The brake rod to the third axle had a 1:1 beam distributing the pull in equal amounts to the brakes on both second and third axles. Shackles were used to connect these beams to the brake stretchers. I etch the pull rods in one piece from 18thou N/S. Overlays are then used to represent the shackles.

The first photo show the pieces making up the brake gear. The overlays are on the bottom left. In the centre are the brake shoes as removed from the fret. These are made up from three layers. On the right I show the shoes in three stages. Stage 1 fold the two hanger layers over on themselves to form the completed hanger, then fold over the shoe detail so that it appears on the top. The bottom shows the shoe and hanger ready fo a touch of solder which will be followed by a light filing to remove the remants of the tags.

 

The second photo is a close up of the hanger/shoe being formed.

 

The last photo in this batch shows the completed brake gear (this is from an earlier build). Note that the rear rod is twisted to the vertical.

[Rob Pulham]

Looking good Arthur, This chassis looks significantly better than the DJH lump that I am currently working on for my Q7 build. It doesn't even come with brakes I intend to have a go at adding some so I am watching this with interest.

[ArthurK]

Looking good Arthur, This chassis looks significantly better than the DJH lump that I am currently working on for my Q7 build. It doesn't even come with brakes I intend to have a go at adding some so I am watching this with interest.

 

My own Q7 is progressing albeit slowly, other things keep getting in the way (Q5, B15 & Tennant) but I hope to post a phpto of the first underframe build in the near future. Watch this space.

[Tim Lewis]

The Q5 is looking really superb: looking forward to getting one of these when available. I don't really need a Q7, but may not be able to resist one 'for a rainy day'.

[ArthurK]

LOCO FRONT BOGIES

I have posted a topic in "Questions/Help" thread asking opinions about the preferred solution of getting enough sideplay in loco front bogies to enable models to traverse the curves found on model layout as opposed the the curvature found on the real thing. Please have a look and add your comments.

[Mallard60022]

LOCO FRONT BOGIES

I have posted a topic in "Questions/Help" thread asking opinions about the preferred solution of getting enough sideplay in loco front bogies to enable models to traverse the curves found on model layout as opposed the the curvature found on the real thing. Please have a look and add your comments.

I think Comet do a gadget for helping bogie movement to be more accommodating of curvy stuff.

Cheers, S.I. Deplay

[ArthurK]

AN NER 3940 GALLON TENDER FOR THE Q5

 

No, I haven't finished the Q5 but I thought that I would make a start on the tender.

 

There are four etches for this. Three in 12thou Brass and one in 18thou Nickel Silver. The latter contains the underframe parts.

 

The tank body is a fold up unit, as is the lower layer of the footplate. The front and rear beams are folded up from the lower footplate. To the right are the walls of the coalwell. the radiused corners use closely spaced bendy-lines to assist in forming the bend. This is quite tight. The easiest way to get this right is to overbend the curve the bring it back to a true rightangle.

 

A view from the underside shows things more clearly. The tabs can be clearly seen on the lower edge of the tank. The rear is an overlay which is why pieces have been removed from the foldup. This make soldering the overlay easier. Tabs along the side of the footplate are bent down to aid attachment of the footplate angles.

 

The footplate top and tank rear are both overlays as shown in this shot.

 

It in now time for a test fit of the bits. Here we have the underside view showing the tabbing of the various bits. The footplate overlay is sandwiched between the lower footplate and the tank body.

 

In this condition the two footplate layers will be tack soldered together taking care to avoid soldering the tank body. We need to remove that so that can work on it separately.

 

The next job is to make a start on soldering the footplate.

[ArthurK]

A BIT MORE OF THE Q5 TENDER

 

Now it is time to think about assembling the tender body.

 

We start by bending the coal well sides. This has a tight radius. I overbend these then bring them back to a true 90 degrees. The coal gate is three planks of timber. Two layers are folded over, this give s scale thickness of 2". The angles in which the planks are placed are represented by a fold over strip. The coal gate is then soldered and all protruding tags are filed away. That part of the angle attacxhed to the side of the coal well is slotted over the tab of the gate. The two walls are held onto the footplate by fold over tabs whilst the coalplate is slipped into postion. After checking that all is square the gate and walls are soldered together as a sub-assembly.

 

We now turn over attention to the body. As we saw earlier this is a fold up unit. It placed on the footplate, the 'wings' of the topfit inside the coalwell walls. When all was square coalwell and tank body were lightly tacked together. the slope of the coalwell was soldered to the side of the well. The top edges were lightly tinned to receive the top overlay as was the overlay itself. Body and footplate were separated. The top overlay was located by the front and rear coalplates and by the lifting brackets. The brackets were soldered from below and the coalplates removed. The body was the inverted onto a flat surface, avoiding the lifting brackets, and soldered to the overlay by pressing the two together with the iron on the inside of th body. The front is the trickest bit but we can just get the iron down between the tank body and the sides of tht coalwell. Plenty of flux is needed for this job but if have done the tinning of the parts the two parts will sweat together. The two must be held flat. It is all too easy to get a warp in the half etched overlay. We avoid solder on the outside of the top overlay but if necessary we can apply a little solder along the top edge of the body. We will later need to tin this edge when we solder the top flare into position. If all is well we can reattach the coal plates and solder in position.

 

 

The tank rear overlay is soldered in a similar way. In this case we use the handrail holes to locate. The rear handrail is added at this stage. Note that this did not use handrail knobs.

 

The next task is the tender flare and the coal rails.

[ArthurK]

NER CLASS W 4-6-0T

Something completely different.

 

This thread has been dormant far too long, not because I haven't been doing anything, rather I have not actually been assembling any of my bits.

 

Over the past two years I have been asked by a number off customers and would be customers to consider making etches for some of the older and lesser known lococos of the NER. The Classes 398, 1001 and the Mcdonnell 59 appear most frequently. There are drawings available for the first and last from the NRM. However both of these lack good tender drawings. With out more details of these I am unwilling to make a start on either loco. The 1001 class in available in the model press but so far I have put this to one side.

 

Another loco to come up more than once is the rather unusual Worsdell 4-6-0T built for work on the Yorkshire Coast line. These were endowed with the none too flattering name of the "Whitby Willies". The first five of the class of ten locos had a very extended smokebox and with the chimney in the normal position above the cylinders gave the engines a distinctly odd appearance. They also had very small coal bunkers.

 

It was soon realised that the locos carried too little coal and the bunkers were extended rearwards by 3' 3". The frames were similaly extended and a radial truck added, the locos then becoming 4-6-2Ts. In this form they lasted into BR days as LNER Class A6.

 

The thoughts that went through my mind in starting this project were first I was not going to be a big seller after all the 4-6-0Ts only lasted until 1917. On the other hand I could get a second loco for very little extra work, everthing ahead of the bunker was the same (nearly) on both.

 

The decision was made, I would draw out both versions.

 

Below my drawing for the body of the 4-6-0T.

 

Of course all this takes time and other work beckoned but a couple of weeks ago the first test etches arrived. The 4-6-0T version forms the basis for the following posts.

 

Etches for the body of the 4-6-0T

 

Etches for the Chassis.

 

A couple of faults on the Chassis etch. I have lost two guard irons and two brake gear overlays -- no tags! That's life.

 

I have made a start on the body. this will follow in the next posts.

[Rob Pulham]

Good to see you back Arthur, I look forward to more.

[micklner]

Etches look excellent. Any update on the Q5, B15 etc.

[Blue Max]

Arthur,

 

Etches for the NER W look brilliant, it looks as if you got the water tank balance pipe flanges on the body etch, I assume you are still using your bogie etches from the D20 as you indicated in your e-mail last year, as I do not see the multi layers for these on the chassis etch. Good to see you have incorporated the long and short smoke box options also.

As I previously indicated, when these are available I will get an order off for 3 or 4 sets of etches, i'd better make a start on getting the fittings together. Looking forward to your next posting as the build progresses.

 

Steve T.

[ArthurK]

NER CLASS W 4-6-0T

Something completely different.

 

Of course I can never resist folding up the bits.

 

Here we have the footplate top and bottom layers. Note the lamp irons fold up from the lower. The slots locate the tank sides.

The tanks follow my usual practice of a one piece foldup. Both sides are shown here. one partially open to show the idea.

 

 

 

Next we will fold up some of the smaller pieces.

[ArthurK]

Arthur,

 

Etches for the NER W look brilliant, it looks as if you got the water tank balance pipe flanges on the body etch, I assume you are still using your bogie etches from the D20 as you indicated in your e-mail last year, as I do not see the multi layers for these on the chassis etch. Good to see you have incorporated the long and short smoke box options also.

As I previously indicated, when these are available I will get an order off for 3 or 4 sets of etches, i'd better make a start on getting the fittings together. Looking forward to your next posting as the build progresses.

 

Steve T.

 

 

I have a confession to make. I forgot to put them on the etches! I do have spares from the B15 and they are very similar. However they were fitted with bogie brakes so that will add a little more. Also these used coil springs rather than a sprung compensation beam as the was no room for the steam brake cylinder on the former.

[ArthurK]

NER CLASS W 4-6-0T

Spent another couple of hours building this afternoon. Having got the footplate into a reasonable conditionyesterday I decided to press on with the sidetanks. These went together without too much effort. and all was going well until I discovered that the plate behind the front cab handrails was missing. However it is now very definitely on the artwork for the next film. I guess that I will have to make them for this build. I suppose that is what test builds are all about.The lower platforms inside the cab were added next. The tabs bent over at the bottom of these will support the cab floor.

 

I then carried on with the cab rear and the cab floor. The top of the cab rear has my usual two layer approach the outer layer carrying the external detail such as the spectacles and the bolt detail for the hinges of those. the inner layer is folded over at its bottom to form the cab shelf. Another plate forms the bunker rear and carries detail of the coal gate and also the casing for the brake standard. The cab floor tabs into this.

 

Progress to date is shown in the following pictures.

 

In this first shot more of the smmaller pieces have been folded. Also shown are the cab front and rear. with their overlaysat the left are the internal cab part, the lower platforms for the cab the bunker rear with coal gate and cab locker, also the cab sandboxes. Last are the front hopper style sandboxes. These changed over the lifetime of these engines those shown are the first style. The boxes were later redesigned and placed above the footplate.

 

 

Next we have the assembled footplate. The sandwich style bufferbeams are built up from layers of etch.

 

A view of the assembled sidetanks and the cab rear. The tabs to support the cab floor are visible on the lower of the tank sides.

 

 

Last for this batch a close up of the cab rear showing the overlay detail.

 

There is still some cleaning up to be done but so far things have gone together pretty well. Next we will try to bring all the bits together.

[Blue Max]

Arthur,

 

Just wondered if you were planning for jointed coupling rods to allow for beam compensation or sprung hornblocks.

 

Regards,