Radio Controlled locos, lorries, cranes etc. Electroplating

[bertiedog]

Re reading earlier spec for your receiver it states for the one you quoted as it works with DC for Bi directional, so that will work with the DC motors. The other Micron references are for the brushless AC motor types.

So the receiver should be able to work direct..............if it is

http://www.microinve...or_tiny-man.pdf

[Giles]

Having got thoroughly fed up up with waiting for the Micro Tiny Receiver, which STILL hasn't arrived (or at least, the correct one hasn't...). I thought I'd have a go in another direction.

 

Sadly, there aren't any comparable receiver/ speed controllers with reverse that I've found - but if one is building a box van or a bus, a flatbed carrying a load or anything with a bit more space to hide more equipment - then this is probably the way forward. It's certainly a lot cheaper.

 

The receiver is available on Ebay (new) for less than £7 at the moment - Its a 40mHz 4 channel job. 39 x 23 x 14

The speed controller is a 'hacked' servo, available for £6 - £8 with another £2 of componants..... and it works...............

 

The card as stripped from the servo, before modification

 

 

The card after alteration... now quite a good speed controller

 

 

all you need to radio control your vehicle (plus battery....not shown...) and it works....

 

 

 

If anyone is seriously interested, I'll detail the hack..... otherwise I'll not bother.

Incidentally, I'm NOT an electronics Whizz, and even I can do it!

[Giles]

Here's a video of the finished truck fitted with CONVENTIONAL radio gear - i.e. that £6 receiver and the hacked servo. If I was doing it this way from scratch, I would lie the steering servo down, so the hacked servo (speed controller) could sit on top of it under the bonnet, so only the receiver would need to go under a tarp. or whatever.......

 

This is a new back-end of one of my other trucks, and the other one with the LED brake lights awaits the arrival of the Micro-Tiny receiver/speed controller, so I can do Plan A and have a clear load bed to take a load of gravel from the narrow gauge tippers..... Whether I rebuild this one back again, on finish a 2nd truck, we shall see (probably the latter - as I've got lots of bits and pieces!)

 

 

As you can see, it manouevres well, with good slow speed control, but we'll need to see how it does on a scenic layout.

 

[noiseboy72]

Stunning work ! I am really impressed !

 

I have used hacked servos for various small robots and a crane and find they work well.

 

It is worth pointing out that a good radio control system is a must. It needs to be FM and on 40MHz to avoid interference from the myriad of rubbish on 27MHz. AM sets will lead to servo creep and this will get worse the further away you get from the transmitter.

 

Now, about that MGB Midget in N I want to motorise...

[Giles]

Stunning work ! I am really impressed !

 

I have used hacked servos for various small robots and a crane and find they work well.

 

It is worth pointing out that a good radio control system is a must. It needs to be FM and on 40MHz to avoid interference from the myriad of rubbish on 27MHz. AM sets will lead to servo creep and this will get worse the further away you get from the transmitter.

 

Now, about that MGB Midget in N I want to motorise...

 

 

Thank you Noiseboy (......sounds like you work in Theatre or something..., but they can never count up to more than two in my experience - but do so loudly and often....!).

Let us know when you make a start on your MG, and we'll send the 'Men in White Coats' for a Visit.....

 

I'm very much looking forward to getting the Micro Tiny and shoving it under the bonnet (of the second one - I've already started carving up the chassis, and sprayed up the second cab). I'll be interested to compare how the hacked servo compares to a 'proper' speed controller.

[noiseboy72]

We never count above 2 because on 3 someone says lift !....

 

My live sound days are now behind me. After 19 years of loading in and out at silly oclock, I have succumbed to the dark side and now production manage for a large automotive events agency.

 

Looking forward to seeing how your project develops. Really stunning stuff !

[Giles]

The next one on the way....

 

The battery came with charger from Ebay for about £5 (plus postage from Hong Kong) and just fits between the chassis runners, and is held in with a dab of epoxy. Obviously these two vehicles belong to the same Operator....

 

[Giles]

Good news! (for me, anyway..)

 

The correct receiver has finally arrived (in fact - two of them - as I ordered a second whilst I was at it!)

 

 

The little thing on the left is the Micro Tiny-S (for servo, as opposed to A for actuator), which is a 4 channel receiver and speed controller combined. This has all the functionality of the other kit in my hand - which is a miniature Cirrus 4 channel receiver (as receivers go, it IS small...), and a 'hacked' servo into a speed controller - effective, but still quite large. These two bits are identical to what is under the tarp on the truck at the moment. The Micro Tiny-S will very comfortably fit under the bonnet, leaving me with a clear load bed as planned!

 

Always assuming radio compatability or whatever.... (I don't understand these things, I assumed any radio transmitter would work with any receiver on the same frequency - but I suspect this may not always be the case....) Still, we'll see.

 

I'll be rebuilding the truck back to take this receiver, and build up the second truck likewise. The larger receiver with hacked servo will probably go into a Morris Minor van ..... it might just fit!

[noiseboy72]

Regarding radio equipment, so long as both transmitter and receiver are on the same channel and use the same form of modulation (AM/FM or possibly one of the digital types), then you have a fighting chance they will work. You may find that you cannot set a null or centre position, as not all brands use the same values. Don't forget, each frequency (27MHz,40MHz etc.) has channels, so its not just the frequency band you need to check.

 

For peace of mind, try to get a matched set.

[stadman]

And corect band for use. 35Mhz reserved for aircraft and illegal for anything else in UK.

I see there also 2.4Ghz sets now appearing in RC web pages.

[Giles]

.....

 

 

here we go..... I've rebuilt it back again .... and the transmitter ( a Cirrus 3 Csx 40 mhz FM on 40.665) doesn't talk to the Micro Tiny-S (40mhz FM with a 1/2 size 40.665 crystal in it) or visa versa.... Either way, it doesn't work !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I went to a model shop to see if I could get a transmitter that would, but they only had one - and there was some debate about whether it was FM, as it didn't say anywhere (it said SMM or something....) - but eitherway it didn't work .

 

Battery is fully charged, and it was working fine with the Cirrus receiver.

 

Any thoughts gratefully received.

 

p.s. I'm getting tiny, almost inaudible beeps - which the instructions would indicate is 'loss of signal' (not that it's ever received one.... )

 

Giles

[artizen]

This is one of those models that needs to work - dammit!

 

Really looking forward to seeing it all come together now you are so close!

[Ruston]

Just out of interest, what is the width and length of this vehicle in millimetres? I'm looking for something of this type for my layout, although I won't be making it radio controlled.

 

Thanks,

[Giles]

It's about 43mm wide and 115mm long - are you sure you won't radio control it? it's quite fun:rolleyes: !

 

I've just discovered that you can get a version in blue for NCB coal.... I just picked up a couple from e-bay - and very nice too - complete with coal sacks if wanted!.

 

On a positive note, I've returned one of the receivers back to Andy at Micron to test, as they really should have worked straight 'out of the box' without all this trouble. he's testing it this afternoon - so we'll know what's what then.....

 

 

 

The receiver with ALL the electronics installed, ready to go, complete...... just wanting the two body parts dropping on.

 

[noiseboy72]

From the info I can find online, this is an FM receiver using standard modulation and data. 40MHz is almost always FM.

 

The most likely cause of the problem is that the transmitter is using the wrong crystal type. Do you have the matched receiver for your transmitter to check that it is working correctly ?

 

I would find a good R/C specialist shop who can check the frequency output is correct.

[Giles]

From the info I can find online, this is an FM receiver using standard modulation and data. 40MHz is almost always FM.

 

The most likely cause of the problem is that the transmitter is using the wrong crystal type. Do you have the matched receiver for your transmitter to check that it is working correctly ?

 

I would find a good R/C specialist shop who can check the frequency output is correct.

 

 

... well, this is exactly the sort of thing I'm trying to get to the bottom of........ I have a Cirrus receiver which works very well with both transmitters on Ch50 and another channel I bought crystals for.... so as far as I can tell, the transmitters appear to be doing everything they should..... ?????

 

I've just had an email back from Micron to saying.....

 

"The receiver works fine with my Hitec Laser and Futaba FF7 TXs. I couldn't test with your crystal as I don't have a TX crystal for that channel. As I wrote before, it it is dead then this will be the first crystal out of that batch that proved fault.

 

I simulated the throttle on your pistol-grip TX by holding channel 2 (elevator) at minimum pulse width while applying power to the receiver. The Tiny-S TX correctly mapped the ESC output to channel 2 and moving the stick up/down ran the motor fwd/rev.

 

I will return the RX to you today and another crystal."

So I can't confirm or not whether that particular crystal is or isn't duff..... Do I go out and buy a Hitec Laser, on the grounds that THAT transmitter should work? Assuming that different crystals don't sort it, of course.....

 

Alternatively, can anyone recommend WHERE I can take the whole lot to - I tried a RC model shop is West London, but they were struggling to work out whether the transmitters they had were FM or not, and weren't much help

 

I don't think I'm being an idiot with this, because if I was, I probably wouldn't have been able to hack a servo and get it to work

But it is starting to make me feel like a plank...

[peach james]

The lego Dif's are both quite large. (40 LDU long, that's 4 studs...or around 1"). I am sure there are smaller dif's out there than lego Technic ones.

 

(not knocking lego, for the bevel's, the 12T gears probably would work OK, but the dif's are big in comparison. They are also designed to transmit rather more power than a O scale vehicle is likely to need)

 

Now off to play build some lego downstairs,

 

James

[noiseboy72]

Maybe find a local model flying club. No doubt they will have a tame guru who can help you out.

 

One important piece of info I found was that different transmitters require different crystals, dependent upon transmitter type. IE, a Futaba crystal may not work in a Hitec tranmitter.

 

To be fair a lot of the info I got was from the Micron site, as they are the UK experts, so they should know what they are doing.

[Giles]

Andy from Micron Radio Control (who supplied the receiver) has very kindly agreed to look into this - and I've sent him the chassis with receiver fitted, and transmitter et-al in the hope he can figure out what on earth is going on! It's obviously something not blindingly obvious.... famous last words......

 

fingers crossed

 

 

Meanwhilst, I've made a start on the Mercian Models 0-4-0 0-4-0 Garratt I bought a year ago - and that's somewhat of a mixed bag as well, but we'll win!

[Giles]

Great News ..... (for me, at any rate!)

 

Andy at Micron has got the chassis working...... it appears that the receiver will only respond to transmitters of at least three genuine channels or more - a fact unknown to anyone until now. Of course my transmitters were 2+1 and 2 channel respectively and so the receiver wouldn't hook up. So now we know, and I've got my flat bed truck! (or at least I will have as soon as the post man delivers it back).

 

I must say that Andy at Micron has been very helpful throughout, and stuck with it - with the result that we now know the formula for radio control vehicles in 0 gauge!

 

Yippeee :D

 

(and of course we can do it much cheaper in a van!)

[Giles]

...... It works..... Radio control Flatbed lorry in 0 Gauge, with no visible signes of gubbins! (The rear lights stay on all the time, but I can live with that - I may even fit headlights to match.... we'll see.)

This 4 channel stick transmitter is a bit quick off the mark, so I shall probably modify it and put a knob on it to replace the stick to make it more controllable - but thats all.

 

When I get the chance I'll take a bit of video (to prove I'm not lying )

 

But to summarise, once you know what particular bits of gear to put together (expensive flatbed - cheap van) it is easy and straight forward. My problem has been this complete red herring of the Receiver being fussy about which transmitter it likes to talk to - which no-one knew about before this anyway. (so no-one else should have to go through quite the same agony as me.....)

[Zappatime]

Thanks Giles, one of the most fascinating threads I've ever read....on any forum, truely inspirational stuff! Quite remarkable what can be achieved these days, the r/c kit and motors etc are so small. This thread seemed to stop in November, did you ever get chance to video the final build in action, would love to see it on a layout? Thanks again to you and all who contributed info, just amazing.

[artizen]

I haven't checked this thread for a while obviously - the talking stopped in November. Giles - are you still there? I would love to see a video of the finished vehicle actually moving around a layout. I believe extra 3D entertainment within any exhibition layout is definitely the way of the future. Sound, lights, smoke? So last year - now we want moving road vehicles!!!!

[PhilJ W]

I haven't checked this thread for a while obviously - the talking stopped in November. Giles - are you still there? I would love to see a video of the finished vehicle actually moving around a layout. I believe extra 3D entertainment within any exhibition layout is definitely the way of the future. Sound, lights, smoke? So last year - now we want moving road vehicles!!!!

The only problem I can see is that each vehicle will need a dedicated operator. Also unlike a train where the operator can sometimes leave to run unattended as when on a continuous circuit it will require a lot more concentration. Stopping to talk to Joe Public could have disastrous consequences.

[Giles]

Thank you Zappatime! I'm so sorry - I've been rather busy recently..... I'm afraid I've not got round to a layout yet - and 'The Loop' doesn't have a road on it (...well, more than a couple of inches....).

I have been playing with some 0-14 tippers and a chute, with an automatic tipping bar - so you propel the tippers into the siding, and they automatically discharge into the chute, underneath which there happens to be a lorry sitting....

 

Meanwhilst, here is a short video to prove the thing works....... including the brake lights, but only if you stop vigorously!

 

One issue I am finding, is that 'stick' transmitters are very coarse in operation - so I shall cut the wires to the 'pot', and measure the resistance, and fit and external rotary pot for speed control, which should make it much more controlable at slow speed. When I had it rigged with the full size radio gear on the 3 channel set (with rotary controls) it was much more controllable than it is at the moment - so it'll be worth doing. It's another good reason to stick with the cheaper full size gear if you can fit it in! (box van, tarp. load, etc.....).

 

It's quite right to point out that operating will need full attention - but that's part of the fun in this instance - and sort of brings you right into the miniature world we've created - I don't have a problem with that - If you want to stop and chat, pull over!