Peterborough North

[Mallard60022]

Phil, I was just thinking about getting a set of MJT sides for a kitchen and an RF thanks for the encouragement! Just a couple of weeks to EXpo EM

You are welcome. 

I didn't really have to do a lot for this part of the build ) sides had all been done (except the drops and hinges, door handle and door grab for the side I did) but I have used the MJT sides before and like their method of doing the panels and the fold over bit at the top of the sides. I think this helps these conversions.

All the best.

Phil

[great northern]

A good day today. Won my Division at golf. I don't think I get any Ryder Cup qualifying points though. But never mind, £40 to spend in the Pro shop. He doesn't sell any railway stuff unfortunately.

 

Back to trains. The next Northbound departure should be the Boston, but the guard has had a message that old Mrs Miggins has only just started hobbling towards the footbridge, so departure will be delayed until she arrives. Fair enough, she's been catching this train for about 40 years. And so the Grantham gets the right away instead, and Curlew sets off, trying not to look embarrassed by its featherweight load.

and then, with Mrs Miggins safely aboard, the J6 sets off for the E.Lincs line.

I like to think this is not that far fetched. Things were different back then, and passenger satisfaction would have mattered. No stupid inflexible targets for the staff to worry about either.

[Market65]

I see both of those trains are just two carriages. No change over the years then  -  trains today are mostly just two carriages.

Regarding passenger satisfaction. Gerry Fiennes, that great railway manager, when on the WR had time keeping problems on the WR main line. Stopping passenger trains would regularly wait for passengers holding up main line expresses. He wanted guards to blow their whistles at passengers to get things improved.

Things were particularly poor at junction stations. There was, according to Mr. Fiennes, an old boy network, where the Fishguard boat train called at Challow to pick up commuters.

'' Blow your whistle at them'' he said to the Inspector. ''Sir, we do not blow our whistles at people''.

Mr. Fiennes yearned for Old Joe who used to be a porter at Rayleigh. ''It's time to go, Charlie. Two so-so's running down the hill. Right away.''

A new timetable was introduced worked by DMU's. People did not like either it or the units.

BR retreated on aspects of that timetable. Money was lost. Lessons were learned the hard way.

 

With best regards,

 

Rob.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Market65

[great northern]

I expect you thought I'd forgotten......

Img_0342.jpg

 

Img_0343.jpg

 

I was going to watch some cyclists. That would have involved:

waiting around for hours (in the rain as it turns out);

then seeing a load of crouched bodies whizz past in ten seconds;

waiting for the next bus that might not even run if they were late.

So I did this instead.

Remind me the 'level of detail' you needed before receipt for your workshop. I think you suggested it would be good in maroon and cream? I don't think I can trust myself to get that sort of finish....sorry.

I'd like to boast, however I only did the side in the first photo, prep of the roof, (that needs some interesting vent arrangements), do the HD Bogies*  and added the extra undergubbins (not really visible, but involved moving the two air tanks, adding two dynamos and two more battery boxes).

The alarm gear needs fabricating. If I'd done the whole thing I would have attempted to retain the Hornby moulding as it is such a fine piece of detail, as are the water pipes (they have disappeared as well sadly).

*I have cheated with the bogies so they may not look satisfactory on the layout. Kept the Hornby ones and hacked off and filed down the bogie sides then hacked some MJT castings and filed them thinner. Then I stuck those castings on the Hornby bogie sides. 

The coach now has a lovely, low centre of gravity with the added white metal parts, so I replaced the original underframe weight with  a small amount of lead. I think it is a decent weight now.

Ar$e

I didn't think you had forgotten Phil, but your own project should take precedence, so I didn't expect you to get round to this for a while. It really does look jolly nice, I just love Gresley RCs. I'll PM you later to discuss how we take it from here.

[great northern]

I see both of those trains are just two carriages. No change over the years then  -  trains today are mostly just two carriages.

Regarding passenger satisfaction. Gerry Fiennes, that great railway manager, when on the WR had time keeping problems on the WR main line. Stopping passenger trains would regularly wait for passengers holding up main line expresses. He wanted guards to blow their whistles at passengers to get things improved.

Things were particularly poor at junction stations. There was, according to Mr. Fiennes, an old boy network, where the Fishguard boat train called at Challow to pick up commuters.

'' Blow your whistle at them'' he said to the Inspector. ''Sir, we do not blow our whistles at people''.

Mr. Fiennes yearned for Old Joe who used to be a porter at Rayleigh. ''It's time to go, Charlie. Two so-so's running down the hill. Right away.''

A new timetable was introduced worked by DMU's. People did not like either it or the units.

BR retreated on aspects of that timetable. Money was lost. Lessons were learned the hard way.

 

With best regards,

 

Rob.

All a matter of degree though surely? There now seems to be absolutely no discretion allowed at all. The train must leave on time, full stop. I experienced this some years ago, when my train from St Pancras was four minutes late into Nottingham. I ran over the footbridge to get to the connecting local which would take me home, and arrived next to the operative who was standing by the train. He took no notice of me whatsoever, and blew his whistle and waved his little board to start the train. I, and several others who arrived just after me, were left standing. The next train did not leave for over two hours, so I had to take a taxi eight miles through the rush hour traffic to get home, which cost me rather a lot. I did not do that journey by train again. The operative's response when challenged was basically, " more than my job's worth to delay the train". Statistics mean more than people.

[great northern]

You may wonder why I was asking about that V2. Last time I showed it on here, there were comments that it was nose down at the front, so I haven't shown it, or indeed run it, since. I was contemplating getting rid of it, but decided to give it one more go. I'm loth to let it go, as I need all the V2s I can get, and it is a Proscale kit with a very nice portescap motor. I think the camera angle must have exacerbated the problem last time, as there has been little or no adverse comment, save for helpful suggestions from Phil.

 

I think it is down at the front a tad, but will receive a reprieve and continue in service.

[The Stationmaster]

All a matter of degree though surely? There now seems to be absolutely no discretion allowed at all. The train must leave on time, full stop. I experienced this some years ago, when my train from St Pancras was four minutes late into Nottingham. I ran over the footbridge to get to the connecting local which would take me home, and arrived next to the operative who was standing by the train. He took no notice of me whatsoever, and blew his whistle and waved his little board to start the train. I, and several others who arrived just after me, were left standing. The next train did not leave for over two hours, so I had to take a taxi eight miles through the rush hour traffic to get home, which cost me rather a lot. I did not do that journey by train again. The operative's response when challenged was basically, " more than my job's worth to delay the train". Statistics mean more than people.

 

There is - or should be - an allowance for all connecting stations which specifies the connectional margin (for timetable and journey planning purposes) and additionally a set of notes which specify how long connecting trains may be held in the event of late running of the train(s) booked to connect into them.  The latter  - if done properly - will take account of frequency and the old rule of thumb used to be 'do not hold if the frequency is 30 minutes or better'.  But the allowed holding time also has to take account of what the connecting train is booked to do next.

 

Our branch has a 45 minute frequency off-peak and there seems to be a happiness to hold trains for several minutes if the mainline train is running late, some connections will stand more.  But during the peak the frequency is down to 30 minutes and the turnrounds are down to 3 minutes so connectons are not held.

 

PS  Incidentally the Gerry Fiennes whistle blowing incident actually occurred at reading where he was told by a Platform Inspector 'Sir, we do not blow whstles at passengers from Newbury'  - it is related in 'I Tried To Run a Railway'.  The (London Division local services) timetable that was introduced did not involve any new or different types of train as the service was already mainly dieselised but it was rather revolutionary when it came to stopping (or not stopping) patterns and was referred to in his book, by Fiennes, as 'a hogsnorton' of a timetable although knowing in later years (after I'd joined) several people who worked on it it was actually quite a clever piece of timetabling but everybody agreed it was really too much change all at once.

Edited May 1, 2016 by The Stationmaster

[DavidR]

Reading through Gilbert's problems with the 'jobsworth' at Nottingham, reminded me of when I was a store manager in Sheffield,in 1990, and regularly commuted from my home in Lincoln. I used to get the 17.30 ex.Sheffield return and one night they cancelled it. Just like that. Only problem was the next one was 21.00 ! So, I took myself to the Station Manager's office and complained about the intolerable delay (  I would have got home around 23.00). The oik in the office drew on his fag end and said there was little he could do. Why not, I suggested, allow Lincoln passengers to travel to Doncaster and get a connecting train from there?

Next thing I know is the tannoy is announcing 'Lincoln passengers should get a train to Doncaster........'. I did remind the 'oik' to ask Doncaster to hold the connection.

We made it to Doncaster and the train had been held, but the guard/conductor (whoever) was a bit disgruntled.

The thought of getting a taxi from Sheffield to Lincoln gave me a severe pain in the wallet and we moved to Doncaster in 1991.

[great northern]

Exciting developments are occurring as I write, but here are a couple of images to be going on with.

Against the strong early evening light, a Thompson A2 runs in from the North.

But it is only Duke of Rothesay again heading a Semi fast from Doncaster.

[2750Papyrus]

They are a bit smaller I think. Now you've got me thinking. " I hate meeces to pieces"  Which cartoon character from my childhood said that? Was it Top Cat? This is not off topic, by the way, as it is contemporaneous with PN.

 

Mr Jinks speaking of Pixie and Dixie. The other two cartoons in a programme of three were Huckleberry Hound and Yogi Bear.

[JeffP]

There's an echo in here.........

[great northern]

And indeed the developments are complete now, but it was too late to take any photos, so that will have to wait till tomorrow. I have a couple more from the image bank though.

Duke of Rothesay now waiting for the off, while still more coal empties creep along the Down slow, with yet another WD in charge.

And the same two locos, plus station pilot, from a different angle, and monochrome.

[45568]

Mr Jinks speaking of Pixie and Dixie. The other two cartoons in a programme of three were Huckleberry Hound and Yogi Bear.

Not forgetting BooBoo, Yogi's companion. One of the Kellogs cereal products of the time had a 'free' badge in each packet, showing one of the 6 characters. P & D were very common, Mr. J  and Yogi less so, but rarest were Booboo and Huck, I never got a Huck!

Model spotters of a certain age around PN's time should have these on their lapels!

Cheers from OZ,

Peter C.

[Clive Mortimore]

Not forgetting BooBoo, Yogi's companion. One of the Kellogs cereal products of the time had a 'free' badge in each packet, showing one of the 6 characters. P & D were very common, Mr. J  and Yogi less so, but rarest were Booboo and Huck, I never got a Huck!

Model spotters of a certain age around PN's time should have these on their lapels!

Cheers from OZ,

Peter C.

Ah Boo Boo......

 

When I was in the REME our metalsmith's shop was in a different building to the main workshop. We had a field telephone connecting us with the workshop office, that is two phones with two wires between them. Our Staff Sergeant would always answer the phone " Yogi bear's cave Boo boo speaking".   The number of times the person on the other end would say "Sorry wrong number" and put the phone down.

[great northern]

Ah Boo Boo......

 

When I was in the REME our metalsmith's shop was in a different building to the main workshop. We had a field telephone connecting us with the workshop office, that is two phones with two wires between them. Our Staff Sergeant would always answer the phone " Yogi bear's cave Boo boo speaking".   The number of times the person on the other end would say "Sorry wrong number" and put the phone down.

One of my work colleagues started doing something similar. His invariable answer when the external phone rang would be " Dante's inferno, Dante speaking."  I always  worried a bit when I heard it, as we did occasionally get some rather important people wanting to talk to us, and the organisation was not renowned for its sense of humour. He got away with it though, and anyway he only had two years to retirement.

[bigwordsmith]

Totally off topic, but as you've drifted into military conversations I thought you'd like to hear about this recent one that came to my attention through a friend in the RAF...

 

"Unidentified aircraft this is Argentine Air Traffic Control. You are in restricted airspace. Leave immediately."

"Argentine Air Traffic this is unidentified aircraft. Actually we're in Falklands Airspace and as we're British we have every right to be here."

"Unidentified aircraft this is Argentine Air Traffic Control. If you do not leave immediately we will send up interceptors. Please state the nature of your aircraft"

"Argentine Air Traffic this is unidentified aircraft. We're actually a pair of RAF Tornados, and we're fully loaded.

... Do please feel free to send them up and we'll be sure to say 'hello'."

 

...silence...

 

You've gotta love our boys in light blue!

[Richard E]

Totally off topic, but as you've drifted into military conversations I thought you'd like to hear about this recent one that came to my attention through a friend in the RAF...

 

"Unidentified aircraft this is Argentine Air Traffic Control. You are in restricted airspace. Leave immediately."

"Argentine Air Traffic this is unidentified aircraft. Actually we're in Falklands Airspace and as we're British we have every right to be here."

"Unidentified aircraft this is Argentine Air Traffic Control. If you do not leave immediately we will send up interceptors. Please state the nature of your aircraft"

"Argentine Air Traffic this is unidentified aircraft. We're actually a pair of RAF Tornados, and we're fully loaded.

... Do please feel free to send them up and we'll be sure to say 'hello'."

 

...silence...

 

You've gotta love our boys in light blue!

Unfortunately, nice story that it is, some on line sources say this is an internet myth. I'll take it as an amusing story that may or may not be true.

[The Stationmaster]

And indeed the developments are complete now, but it was too late to take any photos, so that will have to wait till tomorrow. I have a couple more from the image bank though.

508 and WD.jpg

Duke of Rothesay now waiting for the off, while still more coal empties creep along the Down slow, with yet another WD in charge.

508 and WD 2.jpg

And the same two locos, plus station pilot, from a different angle, and monochrome.

 

Hmm, er, 'scuse me guv but how come Peterboro' North has nicked all those GWR pattern 4 wheeler platform trolleys?

 

Signed Pedant of the Thames Valley

[bigwordsmith]

Given that my friend is a recently retired Group Captain who was also station commander at the RAF Falklands airbase, I'm tempted to accept its validity!

[great northern]

Hmm, er, 'scuse me guv but how come Peterboro' North has nicked all those GWR pattern 4 wheeler platform trolleys?

 

Signed Pedant of the Thames Valley

Ah! glad you noticed that. Actually, they came from Tetley's Mills - Dave wasn't bothered about such niceties, and to a degree neither am I. It was an opportunity to increase the number of trolleys, without having to part scratchbuild some more. And if I want to do that, I have to remember where I got the donors from to do the hacking about in the first place.

[great northern]

I do apologise to those who may have suffered a sleepless night while waiting for these exciting developments to appear.   I did though ascend to the railway room as soon as I had completed my morning exercises in order to obtain the necessary images to show you. And, all went well, I took some photos, and everything looked very good indeed. That is, until I examined them closely when I loaded them onto the PC.

 

OK, back to the beginning. I had another visit from Peter Leyland yesterday, he having completed the latest part of the project in very short order. And here it is.

Or part of it anyway. Some dodgy photoshopping on this, as I tried to erase stuff that is technically off the "real world" , but not very well.

So on this shot, I didn't try. In addition to part of the new Spital Bridge this close up shows that the two buffer stops have been bedded in properly, and the stockade fencing of the District Engineer's compound has been extended to the bridge abuttment. It also shows the last somersault signal to survive at PN.

And here is the remainder of the bridge. This sits on the bit of wood bashing I mentioned last week, and is intended to eventually go all the way to the side wall. I made a free standing platform for the extension to sit on, and even got the legs cut to size by the local DIY store to make sure they were all the same length, something which would have been fairly unlikely if I had cut them myself. It was rather a blow then to discover that the floor on which it was going to sit is far from level. Anyway, Peter sorted that problem by some judicious packing, and, as you can see, all ended up satisfactorily. These are the brick arches on the old Midland Railway bit of Spital Bridge, by the way.

So, this is how it looks from further away, with photoshopped sky. There is no chunk bitten out of Peter's bridge of course, I did that while trying to solve the problem which caused the ireful emoticon at the top of this post. I'll now show the original image.

From the very start I had intended that the real world should stop at Spital Bridge, and so a backboard behind it could be put in. As you see, we did that. It just drops into two slots, and so can come out if necessary. White card was used, which I confidently expected to come out white when the camera got at it, as it is not shadowed by the bookcases. This would give me the background I need to make shopping lattice posts much easier. And it does, though the camera still sees white as light grey. However, an ominous word, I had not foreseen the problem the backboard would exacerbate. It cuts out even more light to the back wall, which now comes out at best dark grey, and at worst black. If you look at that hut which is framed by the bridge you will see what I mean. That has to be photoshopped freehand, and my hand isn't always up to the task. I don't want Peter's work to merge with the background, and it would not do so in real life.

I'll make this the last one for now, as this is turning into a cure for insomnia. It does so much that I hoped it would, both in terms of appearance and photoshopping the signals, but that lack of light under the bridge is a real disappointment. I know what the answer is, proper photofloods, but I really don't want to go there. I shall give it more thought. By the way, there is a WD in shot at top left, but you can't really see it, as it merges with the bridge colour.

[micklner]

Paint the new board the same colour as the rest , doesn't cause me any problem .

[rockershovel]

Re connecting services vs passengers who are simply late arriving, surely they are different cases and should be treated differently?

 

I went to Aberdeen a couple of months ago, by train rather flying up for some reason which now escapes me. This involves a change at Haymarket. I was advised by the guard on the way up to change at Edinburgh Waverley, because it was a slightly longer connection (it was quite bad enough, thanks, but slightly longer and didn't involve the over bridge). This was not actually correct, because (due to the change in opco) my ticket didn't actually provide for that.

 

There were at least two others made the same change, and the guard on the Aberdeen train didn't come through until after Haymarket which suggested that it was a well known issue and not regarded as worth pursuing..

[Oldddudders]

One of my work colleagues started doing something similar. His invariable answer when the external phone rang would be " Dante's inferno, Dante speaking."  I always  worried a bit when I heard it, as we did occasionally get some rather important people wanting to talk to us, and the organisation was not renowned for its sense of humour. He got away with it though, and anyway he only had two years to retirement.

Back in the early '70s, there was a shunter at Selhurst Depot who could disarm the unwary. His phone number was 3388, and so he would answer it "Two threes, two eights". My late father, even longer ago, had got into the habit of answering the phone with the word "Speak" but decided the day he found the MD was on the other end that this might be a poor idea, and used his surname thereafter.

[Richard E]

Totally off topic, but as you've drifted into military conversations I thought you'd like to hear about this recent one that came to my attention through a friend in the RAF...

 

"Unidentified aircraft this is Argentine Air Traffic Control. You are in restricted airspace. Leave immediately."

"Argentine Air Traffic this is unidentified aircraft. Actually we're in Falklands Airspace and as we're British we have every right to be here."

"Unidentified aircraft this is Argentine Air Traffic Control. If you do not leave immediately we will send up interceptors. Please state the nature of your aircraft"

"Argentine Air Traffic this is unidentified aircraft. We're actually a pair of RAF Tornados, and we're fully loaded.

... Do please feel free to send them up and we'll be sure to say 'hello'."

 

...silence...

 

You've gotta love our boys in light blue!

Apologies for the off topic posting, I'm sorry to throw a dampener on this but it is a bit of folklore it seems, it was on facebook last week and has been appearing on various internet forums since 2012 at least - try this story from https://www.reddit.com/r/thatHappened/comments/1kmfek/a_true_story_of_the_royal_air_forces_bravery_and/

 

 

 

I heard of something like this but with U.S Marines

"In addition to communicating with the local Air Traffic Control facility, all aircraft in the Persian Gulf AOR are required to give the Iranian Air Defense Radar (military) a ten minute 'heads up' if they will be transiting Iranian airspace.

This is a common procedure for commercial aircraft and involves giving them your call sign, transponder code, type aircraft, and points of origin and destination.

I just flew with a guy who overheard this conversation on the VHF Guard (emergency) frequency 121.5 MHz while flying from Europe to Dubai . It's too good not to pass along."

The conversation went like this... Iranian Air Defense Radar: 'Unknown aircraft you are in Iranian airspace. Identify yourself.' Aircraft: 'This is a United States aircraft. I am in Iraqi airspace.'

Air Defense Radar: 'You are in Iranian airspace. If you do not depart our airspace we will launch interceptor aircraft!'

Aircraft: 'This is a United States Marine Corps FA-18 fighter. Send 'em up, I'll wait!'

Air Defense Radar: (no response ... total silence)

 

Seem familiar, this one has been around since 2008.

 

There is also a very similar exchange supposedly between a US naval vessel and another party which seems, in one version, to be a lighthouse.

 

Anyway, let's get back to railways and drop these little diversions.

 

I like the new Spitals bridge, but I'm thrown a little as the Midland arches have been altered since 1958/9 and the real thing looks different now.

 

Edited May 2, 2016 by Richard E