Peterborough North

[Tony Wright]

What's all this fuss about snow? That's what I was thinking, looking out at a mere light covering that even thawed during the day. Got out of bed this morning to see about six inches of the stuff though, and virtually no cars moving, so indoor pursuits once again, more trains to run, and more photos to be taken. There is one more view of Silver Link to come.

14.JPG

Hovering again, as you can see. Then I looked at the Gresley FO as it passed by. and thought that it deserved a feature to itself. I even photoshopped a sky to give it the frame it deserves.

FO.JPG

I shall now put on a second pair of socks.

What a beautiful carriage, Gilbert,

 

I take it it's Willetts/Studley?

 

I must sort out some 'proper' couplings for you. A vehicle of that quality deserves better than tension-locks.  

Edited March 1, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Fenman]

Good grief! My grandad was the only person I ever heard use those words! They were always prefaced with "Let's have some proper food...".

 

I have a Canadian friend, now 75, who came to Oxford on a scholarship in the 1960s. He recalls, with considerable horror, the low quality of the food generally available in England. In his memory, the *only* tasty food was in what he believed was then Oxford's only Indian restaurant.

 

My own memory of pre-foreign English cooking is (with all due respect to my mother) that it was not good. The standard Saturday lunchtime meal was boiled sausages (just chucked into a pan of water with a couple of whole onions, and boiled until the skin fell off and they had turned a ghostly grey colour), served with mash and, for a bit of colour, tinned peas, the whole thing moistened with either a "white" or, if it was a very special day, a mushroom sauce. Thinking back, the "white" sauce was fundamentally the recipe for wallpaper paste. Incidentally, isn't it fascinating that we name some of our most common sauces after their colour rather than their taste - red, brown, white. Probably significant.

 

My memory is that in my youth we only had two words with which we could praise food: either "yumm, this cake is moist" or "yumm, this meat is tender". Neither, you will note, say anything about the taste.

 

Paul 

Edited March 1, 2018 by Fenman

[great northern]

Good grief! My grandad was the only person I ever heard use those words! They were always prefaced with "Let's have some proper food...".

I think I remember my father saying something along those lines. Remember, by the late 50s/early 60s we had only just discovered Berni Inns! Well, that was the case in Lincoln anyway. We always were a bit behind the times.

[great northern]

What a beautiful carriage, Gilbert,

 

I take it it's Willetts/Studley?

 

I must sort out some 'proper' couplings for you. A vehicle of that quality deserves better than tension-locks.  

It is Tony, and I would dearly like some more. The whole couplings saga is a bit of a nightmare at the moment, but as this coach is loose stock, it has to be able to fit into different formations in different places, and as, sadly, tension locks are by far the most common, that's what it has.

[great northern]

I have a Canadian friend, now 75, who came to Oxford on a scholarship in the 1960s. He recalls, with considerable horror, the low quality of the food generally available in England. In his memory, the *only* tasty food was in what he believed was then Oxford's only Indian restaurant.

 

My own memory of pre-foreign English cooking is (with all due respect to my mother) that it was not good. The standard Saturday lunchtime meal was boiled sausages (just chucked into a pan of water with a couple of whole onions, and boiled until the skin fell off and they had turned a ghostly grey colour), served with mash and, for a bit of colour, tinned peas, the whole thing moistened with either a "white" or, if it was a very special day, a mushroom sauce. Thinking back, the "white" sauce was fundamentally the recipe for wallpaper paste. Incidentally, isn't it fascinating that we name some of our most common sauces after their colour rather than their taste - red, brown, white. Probably significant.

 

My memory is that in my youth we only had two words with which we could praise food: either "yumm, this cake is moist" or "yumm, this meat is tender". Neither, you will note, say anything about the taste.

 

Paul 

Oh dear! You have reminded me of my mother's cooking. We lived uphill in Lincoln, and I worked down in the City, but walked there and back, including for lunch. One Tuesday lunchtime I got home to find liver and onions on the menu. It was quite nice, and unwisely, I said so. Therafter, every Tuesday, as I walked up Lindum Hill, or sometimes Steep Hill, I knew what was waiting for me when I got home. Anyone who knows Lincoln will be aware that those hills are quite challenging, and the food usually was too.

 

Another memory, right at the end of my driving test I got stuck behind a lorry on the steepest bit of Lindum Hill, and had to double declutch, remember that?, into first gear. I managed it, thank goodness.

[DavidR]

I too, used to live in uphill Lincoln (from 1985 - 1991), working in the city: I remember it was 10 mins. down and 18 mins up. When it snowed, or was icy, it was a 5 min. slide down and the help of a sherpa on the way up  The Straight and Steep Hill !

[rockershovel]

Boiled sausages! A quite horrible childhood memory which I had successfully banished for many years... you need to remember that English cooking in the 1950s was the end product of forty years of war, depression and rationing, in an island which had long since ceased to be able to support its population.

 

I’m always amused by the trope about “the only good good was the local Indian restaurant”. My late mother grew up in British India, and was generally regarded by the family as having a quite astonishing tolerance for food that was visibly “off” or almost unfit for consumption. This was nothing new; Edwardian-era Punch periodically printed cartoons showing the reactions of new arrivals in India to dinner..

 

The period from the later 1930s to the later 1960s were marked by the large-scale construction of affordable housing with reasonably sufficient kitchens, so that food could be cooked and eaten as required. That was the turning point, I think.

 

 

It’s a good point about the nature of rail travel, though. Long distance rail travel WAS the “Business Class” of its time, that or annual holidays at Dawlish or Brixton.

Edited March 1, 2018 by rockershovel

[Denbridge]

Oh dear! You have reminded me of my mother's cooking. We lived uphill in Lincoln, and I worked down in the City, but walked there and back, including for lunch. One Tuesday lunchtime I got home to find liver and onions on the menu. It was quite nice, and unwisely, I said so. Therafter, every Tuesday, as I walked up Lindum Hill, or sometimes Steep Hill, I knew what was waiting for me when I got home. Anyone who knows Lincoln will be aware that those hills are quite challenging, and the food usually was too.

 

Another memory, right at the end of my driving test I got stuck behind a lorry on the steepest bit of Lindum Hill, and had to double declutch, remember that?, into first gear. I managed it, thank goodness.

Liver and onions (with Bacon) was one of my few favourites as a kid. I still love it now. I've always been a little strange, I know most people hate it

[great northern]

I too, used to live in uphill Lincoln (from 1985 - 1991), working in the city: I remember it was 10 mins. down and 18 mins up. When it snowed, or was icy, it was a 5 min. slide down and the help of a sherpa on the way up  The Straight and Steep Hill !

I fear it might take a little longer than that now. I'm sure Steep Hill was both longer and steeper when I last went up it.

[great northern]

 I think there is a car under here.

[The Stationmaster]

First meal I ever had on a train was on the East Coast and that would have been about 1958/59; it was afternoon tea as that was about all my parents could run to and it was a fabulous treat with jam in those little jars and some superb teacakes among other things I can't really remember after all this time.  I can't recall my first lunch on a train but the very last one I had was when we were returning en famille from my son's graduation ceremony at York in the days when proper catering was still available on the East Coast and the otherwise most memorable was lunch when I was an invitee on the Royal Train in 1985 in connection with GW150 (eating in the staff accommodation but same menu as the Principal Party. roast lamb).  

 

I can't recall ever having a duff meal on a British train although breakfast as always been a real highlight a (and still is on GWR's Pullman services although i've yet to see how it comes on a Class 800) and breakfast was a real highlight of the trip in the days when the West Highland sleeper was still running from KX.  Another fond memory is from when a colleague and I were working 'on loan' in Cardiff in 1967 and we always travelled back up on the Pullman on Friday afternoons and had High Tea, complete with steak sandwiches (and on expenses no less!).  

 

An interesting, and rather unusual, highlight from BR catering was the overnight interview to select staff entrants for the Management Training Scheme as that for our end of the country was at one time held at an establishment near Windsor which happened to be the WR's training school for restaurant car chefs & stewards - the food (dinner and breakfast) was. not surprisingly, top notch.

 

As far as buffet food is concerned I reckon the 'sandwiches curling up at the edges' story probably dates from wartime - I definitely never came across any.  And certainly by the late 1960s, if not earlier, the BR catering rule was that if sandwiches weren't sold on the day they were made they had to be binned.  Best ever items in buffets - the grilled sausages you could get at both Paddington and KX in the early 1960s and the incredible homemade apple pie that could be had in the buffet at Carmarthen c.1960/61

Edited March 1, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[Denbridge]

 I think there is a car under here.

snowy car.jpg

Yuck. The little snow we had has just about gone. Now icy as hell

[stewartingram]

I don't remember that Stewart. Not unusual these days, but could you remind me?

I seem to recall both the discussion & the bell. The bell was sounded on p1 upon the expected approach of a train? Thus give a warning could be given to the porters on the crossing. I would have thought they were in view of the signalman, who would be aware of their presence, and if pulling off signals could warn them.

Perhaps others remember either bell or discussion?

 

Stewart

[Denbridge]

I seem to recall both the discussion & the bell. The bell was sounded on p1 upon the expected approach of a train? Thus give a warning could be given to the porters on the crossing. I would have thought they were in view of the signalman, who would be aware of their presence, and if pulling off signals could warn them.

Perhaps others remember either bell or discussion?

 

Stewart

Platform bells were in fact quite commonplace to announce the arrival of a train.

[stewartingram]

In the mid 60s we had Merrymaker trips, from Cambridge to Blackpool for the illuminations. Fantastically cheap trip, good rail journey & spotting, Blackpool & the lights, and of course trams. But my point is, I remember one journey where we started at Cambridge with a 31 and a good rake of coaches including a Gresley Buffet car. I spent most of the journey in that just for the pleasant ride - walking into the adjacent Mk1 with standard bogies (I checked before I got on!), the ride was noticeably worse. We went via the St.Ives loop to March, all stations, where we joined the portion from Ipswich. Another good rake, but no Buffet on that. We must have ended up with about 13 on and 1 class 31. Off to Spalding and Doncaster, then across the Pennines to Manchester, joining the WCML via the now closed platforms at Preston. The year I rode in the Buffet, I can't remember if we changed locos at Doncaster; one year we did change to Jubilee 45562 'Alberta', the next year D5616 staggered all the way through by itself. Ah, memories!

 

Stewart

[great northern]

I seem to recall both the discussion & the bell. The bell was sounded on p1 upon the expected approach of a train? Thus give a warning could be given to the porters on the crossing. I would have thought they were in view of the signalman, who would be aware of their presence, and if pulling off signals could warn them.

Perhaps others remember either bell or discussion?

 

Stewart

 

 

Platform bells were in fact quite commonplace to announce the arrival of a train.

That was my first reaction too. I seem to recall the bell sounding when a stopping or terminating train was about to arrive. That wouldn't help with through running rains though. I doubt whether signalmen could see either. Crescent Bridge box had rhe bridge itself in the way, and North box was set back from the platform. The guy in there might have seen the North end crossing, but no chance I think of seeing the other two. With a 20mph limit, and the noise a steam engine makes, it was probably considered to be safe, particularly if there had been no incidents reported for some time. Of course there is also the fact that there was no other way to do it, and it would have cost a lot of money to create one.

 

My WTT shows that on average there was a train using the Up main every eight minutes, but of course that doesn't include shunting and most light engine movements. Mind you, as we've already agreed, an awful lot went on back then that wouldn't be countenanced now, and unfortunately a lot of raiway personnel got killed or maimed.

[Denbridge]

That was my first reaction too. I seem to recall the bell sounding when a stopping or terminating train was about to arrive. That wouldn't help with through running rains though. I doubt whether signalmen could see either. Crescent Bridge box had rhe bridge itself in the way, and North box was set back from the platform. The guy in there might have seen the North end crossing, but no chance I think of seeing the other two. With a 20mph limit, and the noise a steam engine makes, it was probably considered to be safe, particularly if there had been no incidents reported for some time. Of course there is also the fact that there was no other way to do it, and it would have cost a lot of money to create one.

 

My WTT shows that on average there was a train using the Up main every eight minutes, but of course that doesn't include shunting and most light engine movements. Mind you, as we've already agreed, an awful lot went on back then that wouldn't be countenanced now, and unfortunately a lot of raiway personnel got killed or maimed.

Platform bells were often treadle activated so would ring for all traffic.

[St Enodoc]

I think I remember my father saying something along those lines. Remember, by the late 50s/early 60s we had only just discovered Berni Inns! Well, that was the case in Lincoln anyway. We always were a bit behind the times.

Don't know about that, but when I were a lad the highlight of a day "up town" was a visit to Lyons' Corner House near Charing Cross station.

[St Enodoc]

eating in the staff accommodation

Was Stan B still in charge or had Norman P taken over by then?

[St Enodoc]

That was my first reaction too. I seem to recall the bell sounding when a stopping or terminating train was about to arrive. That wouldn't help with through running rains though. I doubt whether signalmen could see either. Crescent Bridge box had rhe bridge itself in the way, and North box was set back from the platform. The guy in there might have seen the North end crossing, but no chance I think of seeing the other two. With a 20mph limit, and the noise a steam engine makes, it was probably considered to be safe, particularly if there had been no incidents reported for some time. Of course there is also the fact that there was no other way to do it, and it would have cost a lot of money to create one.

 

My WTT shows that on average there was a train using the Up main every eight minutes, but of course that doesn't include shunting and most light engine movements. Mind you, as we've already agreed, an awful lot went on back then that wouldn't be countenanced now, and unfortunately a lot of raiway personnel got killed or maimed.

The platform bells that I remember were operated from the signal box. There was usually a code to signify not only the platform number but also the direction from which the train would approach.

[31A]

Platform bells were in fact quite commonplace to announce the arrival of a train.

 

 

There was one still working very recently at Malton, probably still is as the signal box is still there.

[great northern]

I've now found that I took one more photo of Silver Link. It's an effort at something different, but I could have positioned the locomotive better.

In the opposite drrection came 60505, which had just taken over a Class C from Craigentinny. It managed to get out of the yards, but no further than this, as its shedmate 60504 is still at the platform.

It would have got no further anyway, as the fireman has put up the wrong headcode, and the bobby in North box will have spotted that, though I didn't. Otherwise it is a nice crisp picture, and the lattices were easy to do for once.

[davidw]

I've now found that I took one more photo of Silver Link. It's an effort at something different, but I could have positioned the locomotive better.

14 leaving 2.JPG

In the opposite drrection came 60505, which had just taken over a Class C from Craigentinny. It managed to get out of the yards, but no further than this, as its shedmate 60504 is still at the platform.

505.JPG

It would have got no further anyway, as the fireman has put up the wrong headcode, and the bobby in North box will have spotted that, though I didn't. Otherwise it is a nice crisp picture, and the lattices were easy to do for once.

Wow those shots really shout ECML power.

[The Blue Streak]

Just to add a bit about some of the recent comments.

 

Firstly regarding the number of injuries and Deaths on the railways in times gone by.

When I first started in the railways at age 15, it was as an apprentice in the Railway workshops. There was a large number of chaps there who had suffered some appalling injuries (mainly ex shunters). They were obviously no longer fit for traffic and were what We used to call "Red Carded". However the railways in those days would "look after their own" and these blokes had jobs for life and spent their days doing light duties such as collecting lunches from the canteen or doing a bit of sweeping. They were affectionately nick named "Wingy's and Stumpy's" (due to mainly arm and legs injuries) and were allowed to leave work each day 10 minutes early, so they didn't get caught up in the rush of over a thousand workers leaving at knock off time.

 

Sadly with the closure of the workshops and it all being privatised, these blokes were pushed out the door with no hope of getting a rail job again.

On a more positive positive note, thankfully a serious injury or Death is a very rare occurrence among staff nowadays, you are far more likely to have a member of the public injured or killed, which is obviously a terrible thing for those involved.

 

As for culinary delights.

I am the product of a Welsh Mum and a Dad from Dorset who were around during WW2 and for post war rationing, so even having been born and bred in Oz, I have had many occasion to have had some meals that still reflected the way my parents thought about food. It did improve over the years and I have had many dishes that the average Aussie kid wouldn't normally have had.

 

I have always liked Black Pudding and Yorkshire Puds neither of which sadly are standard Aussie fare. But cannot stand Tripe (with or without onions), which thankfully, is also not something you see in Oz very much.

 

The only food I have ever had occasion to eat on a train, is that which I have packed myself. These days however our locomotives are fitted with microwaves and electric kettles, so much improved from the hotplates* that adorned the cabs when I first transferred to Loco.

 

* these hotplates were of the coil variety and were either barely warm and took hours to heat anything up, or burned with the ferocity of a thousand suns, instantly vaporising anything that went near it. (Still probably an improvement on what the steam enginemen had to deal with tho').

 

Cheers Ted

Edited March 2, 2018 by The Blue Streak

[great northern]

Funeral of a golfing friend of 35 years today, but sadly a lot of people aren't going to get to it because of the conditions. I've got a lift in a 4x4 so i'm OK. Getting up the hill to the golf club for the wake won't be fun either. We'll make the best of it.

 

Back to railway matters, and 60504 has departed, so its classmate can proceed, though no-one has done anything about the incorrect headcode. 60505 is seen lurching round the dog's leg curve.

meanwhile the shuttle from East is on its way up again, with a Claud which is on loan to Spital Bridge.