Peterborough North

[thegreenhowards]

22 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't know if this is any help, Andy, 

 

Though I'd certainly not advocate building a 'model of a model'. 

 

 

It's an original Bachmann Thompson used as a donor, with Southern Pride sides, heavy-duty bogies and the roof altered considerably. 

 

I've an idea there should be a further, smaller battery box to the left, but photographic evidence is elusive to say the least. 

 

If nothing else, it shows my 'sketch-book' approach to making models, especially something like this which runs in a 12-car formation. 

Regards,

 

Tony.

Tony,

 

Thanks for the photo. I attach some photos of the state of play on mine by way of comparison. The research I’ve done suggests the underframe should be rather different from both yours and Gilberts. The best picture I’ve found is in the blue Harris book on p106 which clearly shows the corridor side on which there are two additional battery boxes on the left of centre. This is consistent with the drawing so I’ve gone with that. I can’t find a good prototype picture of the kitchen side, but the drawings don’t show any additional boxes, so I’ve not added any. I can’t see any vacuum tanks, so I suspect they were between the battery boxes as on the Gresley Kitchen car and therefore invisible from normal viewing angles - therefore I’ve omitted them. The V hangers seem to be on the opposite side from Bachmann’s, so I’ve cut the Bachmann ones off and replaced with MJT.  They had heavy duty dynamos, so I’ve replaced the Bachmann ones with MJT BR Mk1 versions which look about right.

 

 

My underframe looks messy from underneath, but I think it’s fine from the side view which is what counts, This represents my best guess and I wouldn’t claim it’s 100% right. Of course individual vehicles may have varied through time.

 

Gilbert, apologies for invading your thread with this rather esoteric subject. Please say if you’d rather I took it elsewhere.

 

Andy

Edited May 29, 2019 by thegreenhowards
Typo

[great northern]

38 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

Thanks for the photo. I attach some photos of the state of play on mine by way of comparison. The research I’ve done suggests the underframe should be rather different from both yours and Gilberts. The best picture I’ve found is in the blue Harris book on p106 which clearly shows the corridor side on which there are two additional battery boxes on the left of centre. This is consistent with the drawing so I’ve gone with that. I can’t find a good prototype picture of the kitchen side, but the drawings don’t show any additional boxes, so I’ve not added any. I can’t see any vacuum tanks, so I suspect they were between the battery boxes as on the Gresley Kitchen car and therefore invisible from normal viewing angles - therefore I’ve omitted them. The V hangers seem to be on the opposite side from Bachmann’s, so I’ve cut the Bachmann ones off and replaced with MJT.  They had heavy duty dynamos, so I’ve replaced the Bachmann ones with MJT BR Mk1 versions which look about right.

 

 

My underframe looks messy from underneath, but I think it’s fine from the side view which is what counts, This represents my best guess and I wouldn’t claim it’s 100% right. Of course individual vehicles may have varied through time.

 

Gilbert, apologies for invading your thread with this rather esoteric subject. Please say if you’d rather I took it elsewhere.

 

Andy

I'm pleased to have discussions like this on the thread Andy, as we may learn from them, so let's carry on, and see if we can get any further.

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

Thanks for the photo. I attach some photos of the state of play on mine by way of comparison. The research I’ve done suggests the underframe should be rather different from both yours and Gilberts. The best picture I’ve found is in the blue Harris book on p106 which clearly shows the corridor side on which there are two additional battery boxes on the left of centre. This is consistent with the drawing so I’ve gone with that. I can’t find a good prototype picture of the kitchen side, but the drawings don’t show any additional boxes, so I’ve not added any. I can’t see any vacuum tanks, so I suspect they were between the battery boxes as on the Gresley Kitchen car and therefore invisible from normal viewing angles - therefore I’ve omitted them. The V hangers seem to be on the opposite side from Bachmann’s, so I’ve cut the Bachmann ones off and replaced with MJT.  They had heavy duty dynamos, so I’ve replaced the Bachmann ones with MJT BR Mk1 versions which look about right.

 

 

My underframe looks messy from underneath, but I think it’s fine from the side view which is what counts, This represents my best guess and I wouldn’t claim it’s 100% right. Of course individual vehicles may have varied through time.

 

Gilbert, apologies for invading your thread with this rather esoteric subject. Please say if you’d rather I took it elsewhere.

 

Andy

Andy, this is in no way a criticism of your build but may I ask if all Thomsons had that rather bogies inboard sort of look?

I am sure I have felt they were looking in the wrong place when I've done a couple of builds, but I put the bogies where the provided fitting hole was on the floor etch.

Phil

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

Thank you for that explanation, I never realized that the Little Barford Power station train ran to Tempsford to run round, shows' you how much attention I pay. 

 

manna

[great northern]

Some good news at last, so the situation I thought we might have to deal with is nowhere near as critical as it might have been.Why is it so rare to catch the malicious bast**** who spread rumours and downright lies?

 

 Anyway, here is 60056 having a rest.

 

 

 

and while it does so the lunchtime parcels from KX to York comes into view.

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Andy, this is in no way a criticism of your build but may I ask if all Thomsons had that rather bogies inboard sort of look?

I am sure I have felt they were looking in the wrong place when I've done a couple of builds, but I put the bogies where the provided fitting hole was on the floor etch.

Phil

 

Phil,

 

I’m not 100% sure. I put the MJT bogies over the Bachmann mounting holes. Having looked at a few other photos, they seem to all have the same look, but it’s only really apparent when viewed side on.

 

Andy

[MikeTrice]

The bogie centres should be 9'0" from the headstocks with 43'6" centres assuming I have the right diagram.

[thegreenhowards]

39 minutes ago, MikeTrice said:

The bogie centres should be 9'0" from the headstocks with 43'6" centres assuming I have the right diagram.

Just measured my RK and it’s spot on. Phew!

Edited May 29, 2019 by thegreenhowards

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, MikeTrice said:

The bogie centres should be 9'0" from the headstocks with 43'6" centres assuming I have the right diagram.

 

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Just measured my RK and it’s spot on. Phew!

To balance the end and centre throws (assuming a rectangular planform) designers try to make the bogie centres equal to the body length divided by the square root of 2, which is indeed the case here.

[Mallard60022]

Thanks for that. I really need to get out more rather than look at coach bogies and wonder why they are set inboard on some coaches. I think some of mine (in the Maunsell fleet) look a bit weird too. never mind, I shall get my medication now.

Should have said what a great looking coach that is. I really like the look of the Thompsons, even the BGs!

[Mallard60022]

I understand that green coaches can cause distress on here, however maybe this shows what I mean; 63' coach but the bogies don't seem so far in, or is that an illusion?

Edited May 30, 2019 by Mallard60022

[St Enodoc]

9 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

I understand that green coaches can cause distress on here, however maybe this shows what I mean; 63' coach but the bogies don't seem so far in, or is that an illusion?

Phil, for balanced throws those bogie centres should be a scale 44ft 6in or 178mm apart. How "far in" they look will also depend on the bogie wheelbase, which doesn't affect the centres at all other than in some extreme cases of short coaches with long wheelbase bogies, where the centres would have to be closer together to stop the bogies sticking out past the headstocks.

[Tony Wright]

13 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

Thanks for the photo. I attach some photos of the state of play on mine by way of comparison. The research I’ve done suggests the underframe should be rather different from both yours and Gilberts. The best picture I’ve found is in the blue Harris book on p106 which clearly shows the corridor side on which there are two additional battery boxes on the left of centre. This is consistent with the drawing so I’ve gone with that. I can’t find a good prototype picture of the kitchen side, but the drawings don’t show any additional boxes, so I’ve not added any. I can’t see any vacuum tanks, so I suspect they were between the battery boxes as on the Gresley Kitchen car and therefore invisible from normal viewing angles - therefore I’ve omitted them. The V hangers seem to be on the opposite side from Bachmann’s, so I’ve cut the Bachmann ones off and replaced with MJT.  They had heavy duty dynamos, so I’ve replaced the Bachmann ones with MJT BR Mk1 versions which look about right.

 

 

My underframe looks messy from underneath, but I think it’s fine from the side view which is what counts, This represents my best guess and I wouldn’t claim it’s 100% right. Of course individual vehicles may have varied through time.

 

Gilbert, apologies for invading your thread with this rather esoteric subject. Please say if you’d rather I took it elsewhere.

 

Andy

Thanks Andy,

 

As Gilbert has mentioned, 'constructive' threads like this (and, I hope, Wright Writes) should have 'modelling' subjects in them.

 

One or two points, if I may, please?

 

Your underframe, especially the positions of the 'V'-hangers, looks more accurate than mine. 

 

Are you sure the dynamos should not be at right-angles to the main axis of the car? You've got them at an angle. I've never seen this before. Is this right? Surely it would mean that the belt would not work properly and be constantly under stress? In fact, with your arrangement, the pulley belt on the inner axles would be on the opposite side to the dynamo itself. I actually fitted the belts on mine (brass strip, soldered to the dynamo pulley, but truncated before the inner axles).

 

Have you altered the roof profile yet?

 

Your bogies are in exactly the right place.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Mallard60022]

34 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Phil, for balanced throws those bogie centres should be a scale 44ft 6in or 178mm apart. How "far in" they look will also depend on the bogie wheelbase, which doesn't affect the centres at all other than in some extreme cases of short coaches with long wheelbase bogies, where the centres would have to be closer together to stop the bogies sticking out past the headstocks.

I learn something every day, thank you…… again. Pity what I learn isn't such that I become healthy, wealthy and more wise about real life rather than toots!

P

[thegreenhowards]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Andy,

 

As Gilbert has mentioned, 'constructive' threads like this (and, I hope, Wright Writes) should have 'modelling' subjects in them.

 

One or two points, if I may, please?

 

Your underframe, especially the positions of the 'V'-hangers, looks more accurate than mine. 

 

Are you sure the dynamos should not be at right-angles to the main axis of the car? You've got them at an angle. I've never seen this before. Is this right? Surely it would mean that the belt would not work properly and be constantly under stress? In fact, with your arrangement, the pulley belt on the inner axles would be on the opposite side to the dynamo itself. I actually fitted the belts on mine (brass strip, soldered to the dynamo pulley, but truncated before the inner axles).

 

Have you altered the roof profile yet?

 

Your bogies are in exactly the right place.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony,

 

The dynamos should be at right angles as you say. They slipped a bit while the araldite was setting. That’s mainly what I meant by the underframe being a bit messy. But they look fine when viewed from the side, so I’m not going to bother, reglueing them. As I know you’ll agree, it’s a shame solder doesn’t work on plastic!

 

The roof profile has been altered, although using my slightly half hearted method rather than your take it all off and start again approach. I find it quite difficult to get the rain strips and destination board brackets back on neatly, so I only smooth the roof profile to the extent that I can without removing these. It’s not perfect, but IMHO gives 80% of the benefit for 20% of the effort. The photo below shows the roof before painting and illustrates my ‘reprofiling method’. 

 

 

The resultant end profile is quite acceptable in my view.

 

 

Andy

 

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by thegreenhowards
Added end profile photo

[jwealleans]

If you're gentle, Andy, you can twist the dynamos on their cast legs so they are at right angles, even if the bases aren't.

 

I'm working on a triplet at the moment, with a great deal of help from Dave Jobling and I've found that the smaller offset box underneath is not a battery box but for the Frigidaire equipment.  Without a drawing it's hard to say for certain whether that's what yours is, but given the consistency of other features with Gresley cars I'd suggest it's likely.  Dave kindly made me a set of boxes for the kitchen car (the battery boxes are a different size as well) and I'll illustrate them when fitted (if the owner is in agreement). 

 

The destination board brackets are dead easy to do with Evergreen strip, I find.  Rainstrips are a bit more hit and miss.

[thegreenhowards]

28 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

If you're gentle, Andy, you can twist the dynamos on their cast legs so they are at right angles, even if the bases aren't.

 

I'm working on a triplet at the moment, with a great deal of help from Dave Jobling and I've found that the smaller offset box underneath is not a battery box but for the Frigidaire equipment.  Without a drawing it's hard to say for certain whether that's what yours is, but given the consistency of other features with Gresley cars I'd suggest it's likely.  Dave kindly made me a set of boxes for the kitchen car (the battery boxes are a different size as well) and I'll illustrate them when fitted (if the owner is in agreement). 

 

The destination board brackets are dead easy to do with Evergreen strip, I find.  Rainstrips are a bit more hit and miss.

I’ll try the twisting Jonathan.

 

I agree the rainstrip is the difficult part. The destination brackets are OK on plastic roofs like this where I can use liquid cement, but on MJT metal roofs I still find them a real pain.

 

Are these kitchen car battery/ fridgidaire boxes available commercially?

 

Andy

[jwealleans]

I'm afraid they're not.  I can probably slip you the drawing, but Dave made these initially for himself and then very kindly gave me them when I admired them.  He's currently building the Comet Triplet - have you looked in on his thread at all?  I've found it very useful indeed.  Right at the start he built a D10C which was a work of art.

[Mallard60022]

2 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

I'm afraid they're not.  I can probably slip you the drawing, but Dave made these initially for himself and then very kindly gave me them when I admired them.  He's currently building the Comet Triplet - have you looked in on his thread at all?  I've found it very useful indeed.  Right at the start he built a D10C which was a work of art.

You lot may not believe this but I have, in the past, actually cobbled together some undergubbins for various dining type coaches by modifying some MK 1 stuff from Southerrn Pride and also making some from plastic sheet. Rare thing for me to actually do anything like that due to idleness and probably not that accurate, but if you haver the pics and can recreate the 'look' then for me that is adequate.P

[great northern]

A meeting at 0830! What is the world coming to?  It takes place here though, so I have just time to put up the morning photos. We have a second look at the run down V2 on the York parcels.

 

There has now been a four hour hiatus while I dealt with more golf club politics.  All is now calm, and I had to pull out of the competition I was supposed to play in, so shortly I shall play with my trains instead.

 

Before I do so, I can complete this post by putting up our second view, which is of Diamond Jubilee, which went up on the West Riding, returning to Yprkshire with the 1.20pm to Leeds.

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

4 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

You lot may not believe this but I have, in the past, actually cobbled together some undergubbins for various dining type coaches by modifying some MK 1 stuff from Southerrn Pride and also making some from plastic sheet. Rare thing for me to actually do anything like that due to idleness and probably not that accurate, but if you haver the pics and can recreate the 'look' then for me that is adequate.P

All this chatter about coaches under thingies reminds me of something I read regarding David Jenkinson and his scratchbuilt coaches. It went something like this, he was asked why didn't he put all the detail on the bottom, why only what was visible from normal viewing? His answer was he didn't build coaches that would fall off and turn over.

[Mallard60022]

When you use DCC you need all the details Clive!

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

When you use DCC you need all the details Clive!

Does that include crashing sounds on its noise chip as it comes off the track to show it has all the brake gear?

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Does that include crashing sounds on its noise chip as it comes off the track to show it has all the brake gear?

Even includes sloshing sound of toilet tank splitting open and then the tinkling sound of breaking vanity basin and surround as well as crunching ballast. CV235.

Philthy Liar

[thegreenhowards]

13 hours ago, jwealleans said:

I'm afraid they're not.  I can probably slip you the drawing, but Dave made these initially for himself and then very kindly gave me them when I admired them.  He's currently building the Comet Triplet - have you looked in on his thread at all?  I've found it very useful indeed.  Right at the start he built a D10C which was a work of art.

I hadn’t seen that thread. At a quick glance it looks good, especially as I have Comet triplet in the to do pile. I’m travelling to Scotland by train on Saturday, so will give it a good read then. Thanks.

 

Andy