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Peterborough North


great northern
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7 minutes ago, great northern said:

I'm puzzled as to how the camera managed to shake though Tony. It was placed on the platform, and set for five seconds delay before the shot was taken, so it should have been perfectly still by that time.

 

Did the earth move for you?!?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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8 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

Didn't the Ivatts give the M&GN route the most modern fleet in the country at the time? Lovely purposeful locos.

 

Stewart

 

Yes: I remember reading somewhere that the M&GN went from one of the most eclectic and elderly motive power fleets in the country, to one of the most standardised - with modern, labour-saving machines that were vastly more powerful than anything the M&GN needed. I also rather like the look of the 4MTs.

 

Paul

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5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Strictly speaking, the picture in question is not actually 'out of focus', David,

 

It's suffered from 'camera shake' during the exposure. Hence, the 'ghost' duplication of SIR NIGEL's front numberplate. No alteration of the focusing on the camera's lens will be necessary for a re-shoot. 

 

Pin-sharp, it should be very-effective. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I quite like the touch of period looking Box Brownie blur from the bounce. My own first attempts were on or about the day I was given the camera (age 10 - 2nd hand from Grandad) of Silver Link and Andrew K. McCosh at Leeds Centralawful from a technical standpoint but full of the atmosphere of the day. My shot of Mallard southbound at Doncaster when Dad and I were on route to an 'open day at the "plant" the same.

 

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2 hours ago, great northern said:

I'm puzzled as to how the camera managed to shake though Tony. It was placed on the platform, and set for five seconds delay before the shot was taken, so it should have been perfectly still by that time.

It's obviously moved slightly, just at the point of exposure, Gilbert.

 

Unless the camera is rock-steady, even the firing of the shutter can cause a slight wobble. Shutter flutter, I think! 

 

Miniature cameras are much more likely to suffer from this than massive DSLRs. Though the shutter 'clunk' is much greater on the latter, I obviate this by locking up the mirror, prior to taking the picture. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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11 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

It's obviously moved slightly, just at the point of exposure, Gilbert.

 

Unless the camera is rock-steady, even the firing of the shutter can cause a slight wobble. Shutter flutter, I think! 

 

Miniature cameras are much more likely to suffer from this than massive DSLRs. Though the shutter 'clunk' is much greater on the latter, I obviate this by locking up the mirror, prior to taking the picture. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Right, I think I see the problem now. I tried to get the camera as near to the edge of the platform as it would go,without falling off, and I must have overdone it slightly.

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6 hours ago, great northern said:

I've had a look for a photo which shows the view from the cab of a loco at the end of Platform 3 whick might show what the driver saw in front of him. No success with that yet, but here is a rather striking shot, copyright of Andrew C Ingram, that shows the effect that sometimes occurred.

 

 

img20191010_10264660.jpg.24596d6a62b01b137770e4a09e812194.jpg

 

It can be seen that the train is on the first part of the curve as soon as it leaves the platform. That wouldn't of itself be too much of a problem. though it was for this driver, but by the time it gets to Spital Bridge, part of the load is still on the dogs leg, and that I think is where the major problem lies.

Yes, thank you I get the picture now. Obviously the reason for the banker for 11 coaches or more was perhaps not only the train weight per se , but the longer the train the more of it was hanging back over the dogs leg.

Curiously in all the ECML books and photos I’ve seen over the years, since the time I saw the N2 banking the Deltic, I had never seen reference to it until you mentioned it the other day 

 

The things we learn on RM Web ! !

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I particularly like those small Scottish visitors!  I think your camera lens might need cleaning though Gilbert, there seems to be something at around the two o’clock position that is causing some blurring/smudging on the images by the looks.

 

Still, as I look through rose tinted glasses whenever I look at PN pics, it all looks damn good to me!

 

Cheers

Tony

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On 10/10/2019 at 18:38, great northern said:

Right, I think I see the problem now. I tried to get the camera as near to the edge of the platform as it would go,without falling off, and I must have overdone it slightly.

Hi Gilbert

 

I use to have large Digital SLR a Canon 5D MK11 a superb camera but I found it very bulky to use on Model Railway photography, I have since sold the camera and lenses to find my Haymarket 64B Layout.

 

I also have a Canon G1X again a superb camera and I found it much better for Model Railway Photography but close focusing was an issue.

 

I always thought I was fairly knowledgeable with the G1X until I visited Tony to see his Little Bytham layout and the things he showed me on using my G1X have helped me enormously with my photography.

 

Following you on your Peterborough North thread and seeing your photographic results I purchased a second hand Canon G12 the same as the camera you use and it’s been brilliant in every way and very similar to the G1X.

 

I can understand when positioning  the camera on the actual layout itself it can sometimes cause problems so I now alway mount the camera on a tripod use the self timer and the highest aperture f8 and use the zoom to get closer to the subject I am photographing.

 

im obviously not sure if you have the space around your layout to be able to position a tripod?

 

I also do what they call photo stacking so nearly all the photo from foreground to the very limits of the background are all in focus.

 

I do not have a photo stacking editing program on my computer so I take about 10 photos of each shot on the manual focusing setting adjusting the depth of field each time then using photoshop elements 12 I overlay each photo one on top of  the other using the layers method and brushing in the parts of each background I require just like you would if you were adding a new sky background to your photo.

 

its a bit of a long winded process but you do get a nice end result with the photo in reasonable focus from the foreground through to the back.

 

I do also appreciate that your Peterborough North Layout is far larger than my Haymarket Layout so it may not be as straight forward for you but I am sure there must be some viewpoints on your layout where a tripod could be used.

 

But either way and sorry to waffle on I do thoroughly enjoy the photos you produce in focus or not.

 

Regards

 

David

 

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3 hours ago, landscapes said:

Hi Gilbert

 

I use to have large Digital SLR a Canon 5D MK11 a superb camera but I found it very bulky to use on Model Railway photography, I have since sold the camera and lenses to find my Haymarket 64B Layout.

 

I also have a Canon G1X again a superb camera and I found it much better for Model Railway Photography but close focusing was an issue.

 

I always thought I was fairly knowledgeable with the G1X until I visited Tony to see his Little Bytham layout and the things he showed me on using my G1X have helped me enormously with my photography.

 

Following you on your Peterborough North thread and seeing your photographic results I purchased a second hand Canon G12 the same as the camera you use and it’s been brilliant in every way and very similar to the G1X.

 

I can understand when positioning  the camera on the actual layout itself it can sometimes cause problems so I now alway mount the camera on a tripod use the self timer and the highest aperture f8 and use the zoom to get closer to the subject I am photographing.

 

im obviously not sure if you have the space around your layout to be able to position a tripod?

 

I also do what they call photo stacking so nearly all the photo from foreground to the very limits of the background are all in focus.

 

I do not have a photo stacking editing program on my computer so I take about 10 photos of each shot on the manual focusing setting adjusting the depth of field each time then using photoshop elements 12 I overlay each photo one on top of  the other using the layers method and brushing in the parts of each background I require just like you would if you were adding a new sky background to your photo.

 

its a bit of a long winded process but you do get a nice end result with the photo in reasonable focus from the foreground through to the back.

 

I do also appreciate that your Peterborough North Layout is far larger than my Haymarket Layout so it may not be as straight forward for you but I am sure there must be some viewpoints on your layout where a tripod could be used.

 

But either way and sorry to waffle on I do thoroughly enjoy the photos you produce in focus or not.

 

Regards

 

David

 

You're way ahead of me here David. As I've said before, my knowledge is basic, both of photography and photoshopping. I do have a cheap and nasty tripod, but I rarely use it. The camera sits on something which I judge to be the right height to give me what I want. It is usually an empty wagon box, or occasionally two. I did try to read up on how to do the stacking stuff, but it just made my brain hurt, so I do without it. If I get good depth of field it is often a fluke.

 

I've graduated fron using the auto feature on the G12 to setting everything manually, but there are still goodness knows how many features of the camera about which I know nothing. Ignorance is bliss sums it up really.

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Gilbert

 

Just been away for a few days, so catching up with PN.

 

Re tripod for photos, we used to use a small bean bag to sit the camera on if there was not room for even a small tripod. It would take up the shape of whatever surface it was on and still give the SLR a firm support.

 

Re banking out of platform 3, I do not remember seeing this occuring - though my memories are more of early to mid 1960's. What I do remember, though, was the almost universal wheel slip on pulling away, though usually after a couple of spin sessions it would settle down. I have always put that down to the trailing wheels. The normal GWR express locos were all 4-6-0, and so all the weight settled back onto the driving wheels when pulling away, which made them generally more sure footed. Of course, the length of runs on GWR tended to be shorter, so not the same need for fuel capacity as for the longer ECML runs. As for flats on rolling stock, i thought that that was more likely to be caused by sticking brakes, etc.. Surely if the wheel is spinning it would wear down the whole circumference, and one spot on the track, rather than cause flats on the wheels. A stuck wheel being dragged along would spread the damage on the track, but confine the damage on the wheel to one position, causing the lack of circularity.

 

Yet again, lovely photos of a wonderful model that is so accurate and lifelike. Thanks for keeping up with it for so long.

 

Lloyd

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Flat tyres were the usual result of sticking/overbraking.  I managed 6 flats on an Army {LMR} Austerity 0-6-0ST, coming round a corner and finding the Home at stop.  Got a 5 mile long bo**ocking for that - I didn't know I had quite so many names!!

 

Isn't the spinning wheels on passenger expresses a way to find the maximum regulator setting, for the conditions of the day.  Open until you get the spin and immediately back off until it stops, leaving it "near" maximum accelleration.

 

Julian

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1 hour ago, jcredfer said:

Flat tyres were the usual result of sticking/overbraking.  I managed 6 flats on an Army {LMR} Austerity 0-6-0ST, coming round a corner and finding the Home at stop.  Got a 5 mile long bo**ocking for that - I didn't know I had quite so many names!!

 

Isn't the spinning wheels on passenger expresses a way to find the maximum regulator setting, for the conditions of the day.  Open until you get the spin and immediately back off until it stops, leaving it "near" maximum accelleration.

 

Julian

 

Drivers of steam era expresses weren’t really interested in maximum acceleration from a “cold” start with a heavy train otherwise  half the contents of the fire box would be blown through the chimney and there would be great holes in the fire bed, much to the fireman’s chagrin ! Most long distance drivers were content to make a relatively slow start and drop a couple of minutes knowing they could easily make it up when they fire started to settle and the loco got warmed up.

The was once an interesting comparison in Trains Illustrated between a Britannia Pacific and a class 40 diesel on the racing ground between Ipswich and Norwich.  The Diesel was quicker away from Ipswich but by the time they got to Diss the the diesel was doing 90 mph and the Britannia had been worked up to 96mph so they both had approximately the same net time over the 47 miles.

 

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1 hour ago, jazzer said:

 

Drivers of steam era expresses weren’t really interested in maximum acceleration from a “cold” start with a heavy train otherwise  half the contents of the fire box would be blown through the chimney and there would be great holes in the fire bed, much to the fireman’s chagrin ! Most long distance drivers were content to make a relatively slow start and drop a couple of minutes knowing they could easily make it up when they fire started to settle and the loco got warmed up.

The was once an interesting comparison in Trains Illustrated between a Britannia Pacific and a class 40 diesel on the racing ground between Ipswich and Norwich.  The Diesel was quicker away from Ipswich but by the time they got to Diss the the diesel was doing 90 mph and the Britannia had been worked up to 96mph so they both had approximately the same net time over the 47 miles.

 

 

Thank you, interesting indeed.

 

Julian

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4 hours ago, jazzer said:

 

Drivers of steam era expresses weren’t really interested in maximum acceleration from a “cold” start with a heavy train otherwise  half the contents of the fire box would be blown through the chimney and there would be great holes in the fire bed, much to the fireman’s chagrin ! Most long distance drivers were content to make a relatively slow start and drop a couple of minutes knowing they could easily make it up when they fire started to settle and the loco got warmed up.

The was once an interesting comparison in Trains Illustrated between a Britannia Pacific and a class 40 diesel on the racing ground between Ipswich and Norwich.  The Diesel was quicker away from Ipswich but by the time they got to Diss the the diesel was doing 90 mph and the Britannia had been worked up to 96mph so they both had approximately the same net time over the 47 miles.

 

I didn't think that the class 40's could do 90. I though the best that they could do was about 75 or 80? Thankfully they did not last very long on the ECML.

 

Lloyd

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52 minutes ago, FarrMan said:

I didn't think that the class 40's could do 90. I though the best that they could do was about 75 or 80? Thankfully they did not last very long on the ECML.

 

Lloyd

Hi Lloyd

 

They lasted up to about 1980 on passenger trains.

 

Trainspotting in the south east of England during the late 60s early 70s 2000s were quite rare in our area, it was only the ECML were we saw them regularly. But why was it always D252 that would shatter our hope of a cop. :ireful:

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Coming back to spotting in around 73, a visit to Kings Cross in 74 produced a class 40 allocated to somewhere called Healey Mills.

Also produced dreams of a childhood crush....

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10 hours ago, great northern said:

Victor Wild a little closer to home.

 

 

441720360_81053.JPG.56337ed36744375fd67d79e7fd9f4863.JPG

 

and a  look at the stock, as for the first time I can put this train together without any fudges. Quite a lot of these Tyneside relief/ Q trains were formed BSK4 7xSK7 FK BSK4, and others had the same, but with RF/SO catering added. No catering on this one.

 

 

1570102339_3nrake1.JPG.4f8745d8ee3a467fadaf8c422dedf5ec.JPG2033118573_4nrake2.JPG.fcabd0c5b76076a71e8d0ba4a93da8be.JPG967495224_5nrake3.JPG.d0f9305076dcada41227648600ee51a8.JPG475007806_6nrake4.JPG.f3e89e5276c37a09e13ed82383d79c09.JPG2052926323_7nrake5.JPG.820127be4187a401fbf4f10b16eb3e58.JPG

 

 

 

I really am stunned by the research that has gone into your carriage workings.

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2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Lloyd

 

They lasted up to about 1980 on passenger trains.

 

Trainspotting in the south east of England during the late 60s early 70s 2000s were quite rare in our area, it was only the ECML were we saw them regularly. But why was it always D252 that would shatter our hope of a cop. :ireful:

D251 at Lincoln on the York-Yarmouth in 1960 Clive. Week in, week out.

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