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great northern
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1 hour ago, great northern said:

Now to tonight's photos at PN.  60508 again, same shot, but with some stronger light. What a difference!

 

 

52779286_15081.JPG.a0b5d2700ad8dd5de3514c235cbfa60b.JPG

 

D209 has travelled a little further.

 

 

892100721_22091.JPG.5c5c394abc81b113ab3c5e18a8580845.JPG

As people are being picky on minor details I am going to join in. The Type 4, D209, would not have had the long corner handrails in 1958. They would have been fitted in the mid 60s after it had a yellow panel.

Green no panel or corner hand rails, it is natural surroundings, platform 9 at the Street. 

Green with a yellow panel, still no corner hand rails, and still on a Norwich express from Platform 9.

It is now pretending to be a VC10 , it is still green with a yellow panel but has gained its corner handrails. At Stratford works.

 

And Gilbert where have you lost the lower middle headcode disc?

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16 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Talking of which, and you might be able to advise me, I have taken delivery of a very handsome Britannia. It will become 70047, the one with no name. Well the advice I am after is regarding the rear pony truck wheels. I don't like the idea of flangeless wheels and they do supply a set of flanged wheels for "display purposes only". If I were to fit them would the loco be able to go round my 3 ft curves? What do you do regarding Hornby's flangeless trailing pony trucks on their pacifics?

I left mine as it came out of the box, i.e. flangeless. I use 30"curves (nominal) but due to my tracklaying and point building prowess I've no doubt that the radius is less than that in places, so I didn't even bother trying the flanged wheels.

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10 hours ago, great northern said:

I hope I'm OK posting these so closely cropped. Is it just that the camera angle on the second one shows up the strip of beading you are referring to?  It looked so different to the first one when I compared them on the page.

 

 

rimmed.jpg.178e1bcc48142e74fbe9cebc39d65c4b.jpgimg20200106_21451725.jpg.08dd6e164a0ff941db11cd8a3d564ba1.jpg

 

This one looks to have a more flared shape, to my eye.

 

Thanks for the work you will no doubt have done in persuading Hornby to take a punt on these, though I know you have mixed feelings about it.

Thanks Gilbert,

 

They do look different, though it could be the lighting. 

 

There's a shot in one of my books (which I can't immediately find!) showing 60506 at Hadley Wood on a Down express, in the last month or two of its life. I've used it in my making models. The chimney is clearly a 'rimmed' one. My supposition, then, is that the loco wouldn't have changed chimneys with just a few weeks left of its life. 

 

I don't know whether I persuaded Hornby (I'm not that influential), but I certainly agreed to help them. At first it was with the A2/3, but there was so much commonality of parts that it was sensible to do the A2/2s as well (as did DJH with their kits). 

 

That said, mentioning 'commonality' with regard to the A2/2s is fraught with danger. Nameplates' positions altered (I've never seen that mentioned in print), 60501's vacuum ejector pipe was joggled at the front end (so was 60504's for a time, but joggled in the opposite direction!), why both 60501 and 60505 eventually had their main handrails finish short of the smokebox front I've never seen recorded and why 60504 had a plate between its sandbox fillers on one side, but not on the other, I don't know. 60505 had it on both sides! 

 

Paul Isles and I discussed all these things at length, so I'm sure the models will be correct in detail. 

 

What really sold them were the names. The A2/2s had (in my view) the most-splendid names ever bestowed on locos, and the A2/3s (with the exception of 60500 - which was inevitable - and 60524 - surely a better-named nag could have been found!) also had great names.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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10 hours ago, great northern said:

Now to tonight's photos at PN.  60508 again, same shot, but with some stronger light. What a difference!

 

 

52779286_15081.JPG.a0b5d2700ad8dd5de3514c235cbfa60b.JPG

 

D209 has travelled a little further.

 

 

892100721_22091.JPG.5c5c394abc81b113ab3c5e18a8580845.JPG

Speaking of chimneys, 60508 in your picture definitely has a 'rimmed' chimney (though the rim is too pronounced). The big giveaway regarding the differences between the chimneys (other than the rim/lip) is that the original has mainly straight sides, and the later one has curved sides. 

 

By 1958 she had a lipped one, and the front numberplate was fixed on to the top hingestrap, not the top of the 'door. According to Gavin Morrison (The Power of the A2s), 60508 got the cast chimney in February 1957; at which time the 'plate was also lowered. 

 

One other (pedantic?) point. DUKE OF ROTHESAY was the only member of the quartet of A2/1s NOT to have the small footsteps on the footplate alongside the deflectors. Why, I don't know. I assume the loco was built on commission? The message (if there is one?); never assume that a builder will do all the necessary research. 'You' have to. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

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10 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

As people are being picky on minor details I am going to join in. The Type 4, D209, would not have had the long corner handrails in 1958. They would have been fitted in the mid 60s after it had a yellow panel.

Green no panel or corner hand rails, it is natural surroundings, platform 9 at the Street. 

Green with a yellow panel, still no corner hand rails, and still on a Norwich express from Platform 9.

It is now pretending to be a VC10 , it is still green with a yellow panel but has gained its corner handrails. At Stratford works.

 

And Gilbert where have you lost the lower middle headcode disc?

But this was a limited edition from TMS which included a Master Cutler headboard Clive, and it was advertised as being in early condition. I'm not that hot on diesel knowledge, and I assumed that they, and presumably Bachmann before them, had got it right. This was many years ago, as it certainly ran on the loft layout, and I'm no longer as trusting and naive as I was back then,

 

Dunno where the middle disc is, should it be in position but folded? Again, I just got it right for Class A duty.

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53 minutes ago, great northern said:

But this was a limited edition from TMS which included a Master Cutler headboard Clive, and it was advertised as being in early condition. I'm not that hot on diesel knowledge, and I assumed that they, and presumably Bachmann before them, had got it right. This was many years ago, as it certainly ran on the loft layout, and I'm no longer as trusting and naive as I was back then,

 

Dunno where the middle disc is, should it be in position but folded? Again, I just got it right for Class A duty.

Yes. I will see If I have a spare Bachmann folded green disc. 

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14 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Just to clarify a point or two on the A2/2s (having helped Hornby in a small way with the research on these models; and the A2/3s), the 'rimmed' chimney is the original, and the 'lipped' chimney is the one which they all eventually got; with the exception of 60506. 60505 only got it for the last few months of its life in 1959. The 'rimmed' chimneys were little more than double stovepipes, with just a strip of beading around the rim. I seem to recall reading that they were fabricated (I could have got this wrong), rather than cast, which the lipped chimneys were. The originals were better at smoke-lifting than the more aesthetically-pleasing lipped ones. 

 

During the research, Paul Isles (Hornby's designer) and I concluded that at any one time, no two A2/2s were exactly the same. Some of the differences were subtle - positions and style of sandbox fillers, and the shapes of vacuum exhaust ejectors for example. 

 

I should be seeing the 'proving' models before long (a real privilege) and I'll comment on Wright Writes as to what they look like exactly.

 

Regards to all,

 

Tony. 

 

Interestingly Tony I cannot find a link to Wright writes anywhere on RMWeb - would you mind sharing one?

 

ATB

 

Peter

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4 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said:

 

Interestingly Tony I cannot find a link to Wright writes anywhere on RMWeb - would you mind sharing one?

 

ATB

 

Peter

All the best to you, Peter,

 

It's in the Modelling Musings and Miscellany section. It's very active! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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34 minutes ago, JeffP said:

Going back to the A2's, how much easier will their introduction as models make the construction of 60113 in it's final guise?

The short answer is no easier at all Jeff.

 

There is almost no commonality of parts. The drivers are a different diameter (6' 8" on the A1/1; 6' 2" on the A2/2, and all the other Thompson Pacifics), the wheelbase is different (the A1/1 had a longer overall wheelbase than a P2!), the connecting rods are longer, as are the coupling rods, the smokebox/boiler/firebox arrangement is different (60113 had an A4 boiler and firebox - the latter smaller than the A2/2s), the cab, though similar to an A2/3, is not the same - flat-fronted, yes, but with beading and no rivets, the large smoke deflectors are unique to 60113 (no large handrails and a completely different shape to the A2/3 style) and GREAT NORTHERN didn't have the lower handrails on the firebox. However, its tender was similar to that towed by 60501/2. 

 

473125472_RM005GREATNORTHERN.jpg.66327dcae9cb1b7ce89fa4aad2dfb0cc.jpg

 

Dare I stick my neck out and say that this loco will NEVER be available RTR? 

 

I made it from a Crownline kit, and Ian Rathbone painted it.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

The short answer is no easier at all Jeff.

 

There is almost no commonality of parts. The drivers are a different diameter (6' 8" on the A1/1; 6' 2" on the A2/2, and all the other Thompson Pacifics), the wheelbase is different (the A1/1 had a longer overall wheelbase than a P2!), the connecting rods are longer, as are the coupling rods, the smokebox/boiler/firebox arrangement is different (60113 had an A4 boiler and firebox - the latter smaller than the A2/2s), the cab, though similar to an A2/3, is not the same - flat-fronted, yes, but with beading and no rivets, the large smoke deflectors are unique to 60113 (no large handrails and a completely different shape to the A2/3 style) and GREAT NORTHERN didn't have the lower handrails on the firebox. However, its tender was similar to that towed by 60501/2. 

 

473125472_RM005GREATNORTHERN.jpg.66327dcae9cb1b7ce89fa4aad2dfb0cc.jpg

 

Dare I stick my neck out and say that this loco will NEVER be available RTR? 

 

I made it from a Crownline kit, and Ian Rathbone painted it.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I never expected to see a RTR Hush Hush or Duke of Gloucester, let alone Thompson pacifics. Nothing would suprise me anymore.

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1 hour ago, bigwordsmith said:

 

Interestingly Tony I cannot find a link to Wright writes anywhere on RMWeb - would you mind sharing one?

 

ATB

 

Peter

Hi Peter

 

You may have accidentally clicked on the “ignore this topic  “ button at the top of the page, it’s in a red box below the reply to topic button in a yellow box.

 

I have done this a few times just find a link back to Tony’s thread open it and check, if you have re click on it and all should be OK.

 

Hope this helps you. 

 

Regards

 

David

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41 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said:

As I have a spare P2 kicking around I do wonder, if one could by any chance get hold of an A2/2 body, would it be relatively simple to chop it around a tad to end up with this?

P2 V2.jpg

WTH is that? It looks beautiful.

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20 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

WTH is that? It looks beautiful.

 

Happy New Year Phil, and indeed all my fellow RMWebbers

 

We are very fortunate at the Bluebell to have an excellent artist - I'm sure his name is Martin Cousins, anyway, he  also enjoys playing around with a bit of photoshoppery.

 

THis one started life as a photo of Green Arrow in BR days and he got to musing, 'what if?'

 

I'm itching to produce one for Waverley East as and when it gets back out of hibernation!

Edited by bigwordsmith
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45 minutes ago, landscapes said:

Hi Peter

 

You may have accidentally clicked on the “ignore this topic  “ button at the top of the page, it’s in a red box below the reply to topic button in a yellow box.

 

I have done this a few times just find a link back to Tony’s thread open it and check, if you have re click on it and all should be OK.

 

Hope this helps you. 

 

Regards

 

David

 

Got it - Thanks David - you guessed correctly!

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Hi Gilbert

 

You share a photo of a pretty Ivatt 0-6-0 loco, followed by what must be Gresley's ugliest loco a J50. When you think of it a J50 is only a Ivatt 0-6-0 buried under those disproportionate sized water tanks.  I have one on Exchange, it brings in the coal trains now and then for the loco sidings.

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