RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 6, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, great northern said: Now to tonight's photos at PN. 60508 again, same shot, but with some stronger light. What a difference! D209 has travelled a little further. As people are being picky on minor details I am going to join in. The Type 4, D209, would not have had the long corner handrails in 1958. They would have been fitted in the mid 60s after it had a yellow panel. Green no panel or corner hand rails, it is natural surroundings, platform 9 at the Street. Green with a yellow panel, still no corner hand rails, and still on a Norwich express from Platform 9. It is now pretending to be a VC10 , it is still green with a yellow panel but has gained its corner handrails. At Stratford works. And Gilbert where have you lost the lower middle headcode disc? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted January 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2020 16 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said: Talking of which, and you might be able to advise me, I have taken delivery of a very handsome Britannia. It will become 70047, the one with no name. Well the advice I am after is regarding the rear pony truck wheels. I don't like the idea of flangeless wheels and they do supply a set of flanged wheels for "display purposes only". If I were to fit them would the loco be able to go round my 3 ft curves? What do you do regarding Hornby's flangeless trailing pony trucks on their pacifics? I left mine as it came out of the box, i.e. flangeless. I use 30"curves (nominal) but due to my tracklaying and point building prowess I've no doubt that the radius is less than that in places, so I didn't even bother trying the flanged wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post great northern Posted January 7, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 Here are some images to look at while I go shopping, food not pictures. Our man thought you would like to see an Ivatt showing off its good looks in a full side on view, with part of D209 in shot as a bonus. Further along, someone has climbed up something, and produced this view. 21 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 10 hours ago, great northern said: I hope I'm OK posting these so closely cropped. Is it just that the camera angle on the second one shows up the strip of beading you are referring to? It looked so different to the first one when I compared them on the page. This one looks to have a more flared shape, to my eye. Thanks for the work you will no doubt have done in persuading Hornby to take a punt on these, though I know you have mixed feelings about it. Thanks Gilbert, They do look different, though it could be the lighting. There's a shot in one of my books (which I can't immediately find!) showing 60506 at Hadley Wood on a Down express, in the last month or two of its life. I've used it in my making models. The chimney is clearly a 'rimmed' one. My supposition, then, is that the loco wouldn't have changed chimneys with just a few weeks left of its life. I don't know whether I persuaded Hornby (I'm not that influential), but I certainly agreed to help them. At first it was with the A2/3, but there was so much commonality of parts that it was sensible to do the A2/2s as well (as did DJH with their kits). That said, mentioning 'commonality' with regard to the A2/2s is fraught with danger. Nameplates' positions altered (I've never seen that mentioned in print), 60501's vacuum ejector pipe was joggled at the front end (so was 60504's for a time, but joggled in the opposite direction!), why both 60501 and 60505 eventually had their main handrails finish short of the smokebox front I've never seen recorded and why 60504 had a plate between its sandbox fillers on one side, but not on the other, I don't know. 60505 had it on both sides! Paul Isles and I discussed all these things at length, so I'm sure the models will be correct in detail. What really sold them were the names. The A2/2s had (in my view) the most-splendid names ever bestowed on locos, and the A2/3s (with the exception of 60500 - which was inevitable - and 60524 - surely a better-named nag could have been found!) also had great names. Regards, Tony. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 10 hours ago, great northern said: Now to tonight's photos at PN. 60508 again, same shot, but with some stronger light. What a difference! D209 has travelled a little further. Speaking of chimneys, 60508 in your picture definitely has a 'rimmed' chimney (though the rim is too pronounced). The big giveaway regarding the differences between the chimneys (other than the rim/lip) is that the original has mainly straight sides, and the later one has curved sides. By 1958 she had a lipped one, and the front numberplate was fixed on to the top hingestrap, not the top of the 'door. According to Gavin Morrison (The Power of the A2s), 60508 got the cast chimney in February 1957; at which time the 'plate was also lowered. One other (pedantic?) point. DUKE OF ROTHESAY was the only member of the quartet of A2/1s NOT to have the small footsteps on the footplate alongside the deflectors. Why, I don't know. I assume the loco was built on commission? The message (if there is one?); never assume that a builder will do all the necessary research. 'You' have to. Regards, Tony. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted January 7, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2020 10 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said: As people are being picky on minor details I am going to join in. The Type 4, D209, would not have had the long corner handrails in 1958. They would have been fitted in the mid 60s after it had a yellow panel. Green no panel or corner hand rails, it is natural surroundings, platform 9 at the Street. Green with a yellow panel, still no corner hand rails, and still on a Norwich express from Platform 9. It is now pretending to be a VC10 , it is still green with a yellow panel but has gained its corner handrails. At Stratford works. And Gilbert where have you lost the lower middle headcode disc? But this was a limited edition from TMS which included a Master Cutler headboard Clive, and it was advertised as being in early condition. I'm not that hot on diesel knowledge, and I assumed that they, and presumably Bachmann before them, had got it right. This was many years ago, as it certainly ran on the loft layout, and I'm no longer as trusting and naive as I was back then, Dunno where the middle disc is, should it be in position but folded? Again, I just got it right for Class A duty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2020 53 minutes ago, great northern said: But this was a limited edition from TMS which included a Master Cutler headboard Clive, and it was advertised as being in early condition. I'm not that hot on diesel knowledge, and I assumed that they, and presumably Bachmann before them, had got it right. This was many years ago, as it certainly ran on the loft layout, and I'm no longer as trusting and naive as I was back then, Dunno where the middle disc is, should it be in position but folded? Again, I just got it right for Class A duty. Yes. I will see If I have a spare Bachmann folded green disc. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Going back to the A2's, how much easier will their introduction as models make the construction of 60113 in it's final guise? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted January 7, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, JeffP said: Going back to the A2's, how much easier will their introduction as models make the construction of 60113 in it's final guise? I think you need Tony or Tim to answer that one Jeff. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Thanks Gilbert, I'll pop over to Wright Writes in a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 14 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Just to clarify a point or two on the A2/2s (having helped Hornby in a small way with the research on these models; and the A2/3s), the 'rimmed' chimney is the original, and the 'lipped' chimney is the one which they all eventually got; with the exception of 60506. 60505 only got it for the last few months of its life in 1959. The 'rimmed' chimneys were little more than double stovepipes, with just a strip of beading around the rim. I seem to recall reading that they were fabricated (I could have got this wrong), rather than cast, which the lipped chimneys were. The originals were better at smoke-lifting than the more aesthetically-pleasing lipped ones. During the research, Paul Isles (Hornby's designer) and I concluded that at any one time, no two A2/2s were exactly the same. Some of the differences were subtle - positions and style of sandbox fillers, and the shapes of vacuum exhaust ejectors for example. I should be seeing the 'proving' models before long (a real privilege) and I'll comment on Wright Writes as to what they look like exactly. Regards to all, Tony. Interestingly Tony I cannot find a link to Wright writes anywhere on RMWeb - would you mind sharing one? ATB Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said: Interestingly Tony I cannot find a link to Wright writes anywhere on RMWeb - would you mind sharing one? ATB Peter All the best to you, Peter, It's in the Modelling Musings and Miscellany section. It's very active! Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 34 minutes ago, JeffP said: Going back to the A2's, how much easier will their introduction as models make the construction of 60113 in it's final guise? The short answer is no easier at all Jeff. There is almost no commonality of parts. The drivers are a different diameter (6' 8" on the A1/1; 6' 2" on the A2/2, and all the other Thompson Pacifics), the wheelbase is different (the A1/1 had a longer overall wheelbase than a P2!), the connecting rods are longer, as are the coupling rods, the smokebox/boiler/firebox arrangement is different (60113 had an A4 boiler and firebox - the latter smaller than the A2/2s), the cab, though similar to an A2/3, is not the same - flat-fronted, yes, but with beading and no rivets, the large smoke deflectors are unique to 60113 (no large handrails and a completely different shape to the A2/3 style) and GREAT NORTHERN didn't have the lower handrails on the firebox. However, its tender was similar to that towed by 60501/2. Dare I stick my neck out and say that this loco will NEVER be available RTR? I made it from a Crownline kit, and Ian Rathbone painted it. Regards, Tony. 3 1 2 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: The short answer is no easier at all Jeff. There is almost no commonality of parts. The drivers are a different diameter (6' 8" on the A1/1; 6' 2" on the A2/2, and all the other Thompson Pacifics), the wheelbase is different (the A1/1 had a longer overall wheelbase than a P2!), the connecting rods are longer, as are the coupling rods, the smokebox/boiler/firebox arrangement is different (60113 had an A4 boiler and firebox - the latter smaller than the A2/2s), the cab, though similar to an A2/3, is not the same - flat-fronted, yes, but with beading and no rivets, the large smoke deflectors are unique to 60113 (no large handrails and a completely different shape to the A2/3 style) and GREAT NORTHERN didn't have the lower handrails on the firebox. However, its tender was similar to that towed by 60501/2. Dare I stick my neck out and say that this loco will NEVER be available RTR? I made it from a Crownline kit, and Ian Rathbone painted it. Regards, Tony. I never expected to see a RTR Hush Hush or Duke of Gloucester, let alone Thompson pacifics. Nothing would suprise me anymore. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 As I have a spare P2 kicking around I do wonder, if one could by any chance get hold of an A2/2 body, would it be relatively simple to chop it around a tad to end up with this? 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
landscapes Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, bigwordsmith said: Interestingly Tony I cannot find a link to Wright writes anywhere on RMWeb - would you mind sharing one? ATB Peter Hi Peter You may have accidentally clicked on the “ignore this topic “ button at the top of the page, it’s in a red box below the reply to topic button in a yellow box. I have done this a few times just find a link back to Tony’s thread open it and check, if you have re click on it and all should be OK. Hope this helps you. Regards David Edited January 7, 2020 by landscapes Additional information Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 7, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2020 41 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said: As I have a spare P2 kicking around I do wonder, if one could by any chance get hold of an A2/2 body, would it be relatively simple to chop it around a tad to end up with this? WTH is that? It looks beautiful. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said: WTH is that? It looks beautiful. Happy New Year Phil, and indeed all my fellow RMWebbers We are very fortunate at the Bluebell to have an excellent artist - I'm sure his name is Martin Cousins, anyway, he also enjoys playing around with a bit of photoshoppery. THis one started life as a photo of Green Arrow in BR days and he got to musing, 'what if?' I'm itching to produce one for Waverley East as and when it gets back out of hibernation! Edited January 7, 2020 by bigwordsmith 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 45 minutes ago, landscapes said: Hi Peter You may have accidentally clicked on the “ignore this topic “ button at the top of the page, it’s in a red box below the reply to topic button in a yellow box. I have done this a few times just find a link back to Tony’s thread open it and check, if you have re click on it and all should be OK. Hope this helps you. Regards David Got it - Thanks David - you guessed correctly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 If anyone hasn't yet seen the fertility of Matthew's imagination this page is well worth a visit! 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post great northern Posted January 7, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted January 7, 2020 One more shot of D209, taken to see if my latest attempt at solving the problem posed by all those lattices has worked. and the answer is.....partly. Scuttling back to New England after a morning down at Ramsey, our somehow surviving J3 is the next subject. 34 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post great northern Posted January 8, 2020 Author RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) A visitor today, so I must get on. There will no doubt be conversation about train formations. First, an experimental photo taken from beyond Spital Bridge, showing the J50 restarting from the Down slow. Being near the bridge, I then climbed up onto it, and got this shot of 60508 snaking over pointwork to get onto the Down main. The only drawback to this angle is the floating bridge at the far end. There's nothing I can do about that, but does it detract too much from the overall effect in your opinion? As you can see, this was straight into very strong light, and my first reaction was to bin it. After going monochrome and messing about with reduction of highlight and fiddling with contrast, I got this, which has a certain atmosphere to it. I've no idea why this has come up twice, nor how to clear it, so please ignore. Edited January 8, 2020 by great northern explanation 32 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted January 8, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2020 I like the picture of the J50. Whilst not technically perfect I'm sure, it is very atmospheric. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 8, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2020 Hi Gilbert You share a photo of a pretty Ivatt 0-6-0 loco, followed by what must be Gresley's ugliest loco a J50. When you think of it a J50 is only a Ivatt 0-6-0 buried under those disproportionate sized water tanks. I have one on Exchange, it brings in the coal trains now and then for the loco sidings. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 We called the J50's "Coffee Pots". The J52's were more common round Doncaster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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