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Peterborough North


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1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

When in France, dear boy, when in France.... Hic. 

 

Delightful! I can't wait to be there again, but Mrs Laithwaite has just visited, so we are well stocked with Rhone fruitfulness......   :D

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2 minutes ago, FarrMan said:

Gilbert

 

Very quiet on here today. Has the world ended and no one has told us?

 

Lloyd

I've run out of poll ideas, we seem to have exhausted ragwort, and duvet wrestling day was Wednesday, so those may be the reasons, Lloyd.

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Gilbert, while you think of a new poll, perhaps I can offer this as a distraction?  A few of us were discussing this picture online last night.  I'm afraid I don't know the photographer and certainly don't have copyright, so not to be further reproduced, please.   Posted here for research purposes only.

 

1951785103_LNERA44900peterborough.jpg.2a028a151281b6fc433bc070273e900b.jpg

 

Where to begin?   The A4 is on a train in a bay platform(?) facing north.  Is the stock Maunsell?    What was the capacity of that bay?   The stock looks empty to us - but why would a train using Southern stock be heading that way?   They don't seem in any hurry to be going anywhere, are they awaiting passengers?

 

Date we reckon is certainly post 1936 (small lettering on wagons in the background, 4900 not released to traffic until May 1938) and most likely approaching the War although we couldn't see any blackout precautions anywhere. 

 

The two light engines are on the Up Main, but both lamped for EP - are they waiting to take over another service, or to run to New England - they both look well coaled. 

 

Note also the LMS opens loaded with aggregate of some sort in the foreground - you'd be told off if you did that on a model.  Ex-LNWR BG in the background - might that be awaiting repair?   I'm sure you told me those sheds were used for repair after the MPD moved to New England.

 

Any and all observations are welcome.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Gilbert, while you think of a new poll, perhaps I can offer this as a distraction?  A few of us were discussing this picture online last night.  I'm afraid I don't know the photographer and certainly don't have copyright, so not to be further reproduced, please.   Posted here for research purposes only.

 

1951785103_LNERA44900peterborough.jpg.2a028a151281b6fc433bc070273e900b.jpg

 

Where to begin?   The A4 is on a train in a bay platform(?) facing north.  Is the stock Maunsell?    What was the capacity of that bay?   The stock looks empty to us - but why would a train using Southern stock be heading that way?   They don't seem in any hurry to be going anywhere, are they awaiting passengers?

 

Date we reckon is certainly post 1936 (small lettering on wagons in the background, 4900 not released to traffic until May 1938) and most likely approaching the War although we couldn't see any blackout precautions anywhere. 

 

The two light engines are on the Up Main, but both lamped for EP - are they waiting to take over another service, or to run to New England - they both look well coaled. 

 

Note also the LMS opens loaded with aggregate of some sort in the foreground - you'd be told off if you did that on a model.  Ex-LNWR BG in the background - might that be awaiting repair?   I'm sure you told me those sheds were used for repair after the MPD moved to New England.

 

Any and all observations are welcome.

 

 

 

 

Are you sure that the A4 is in a bay platform. It looks to me as though it is in platform 3, the down main, with the two light engines in the down bay. There looks to me to be too much space behind it to be in the bay on the upside, and too little room between the wagons on the Midland lines and the platforms.

 

Lloyd

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2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

Gilbert, while you think of a new poll, perhaps I can offer this as a distraction?  A few of us were discussing this picture online last night.  I'm afraid I don't know the photographer and certainly don't have copyright, so not to be further reproduced, please.   Posted here for research purposes only.

 

1951785103_LNERA44900peterborough.jpg.2a028a151281b6fc433bc070273e900b.jpg

 

Where to begin?   The A4 is on a train in a bay platform(?) facing north.  Is the stock Maunsell?    What was the capacity of that bay?   The stock looks empty to us - but why would a train using Southern stock be heading that way?   They don't seem in any hurry to be going anywhere, are they awaiting passengers?

 

Date we reckon is certainly post 1936 (small lettering on wagons in the background, 4900 not released to traffic until May 1938) and most likely approaching the War although we couldn't see any blackout precautions anywhere. 

 

The two light engines are on the Up Main, but both lamped for EP - are they waiting to take over another service, or to run to New England - they both look well coaled. 

 

Note also the LMS opens loaded with aggregate of some sort in the foreground - you'd be told off if you did that on a model.  Ex-LNWR BG in the background - might that be awaiting repair?   I'm sure you told me those sheds were used for repair after the MPD moved to New England.

 

Any and all observations are welcome.

 

 

 

 

I have this photo in one of my books, but can't trace it at present. it was taken from the Spital Bridge Cenotaph, though I suspect not from the very top. First thing is to get everything in the right place. The A4 is, in fact, on the Down main, and the two light engines are in number 4 bay. I'd say they are both waiting to take Down services, and will have been sent down from New England together to save line occupancy. That bay would only hold about five or six coaches, incidentally. To the left of the light engines, the end of the excursion platform can just be seen. I'm not sure whether all of the wagons are on the Midland side, the furthest ones may be on the Down slow.

 

The BG is standing outside the part of the old engine shed which by this time looks to have become the GN hotel garage, as the doors appear to have been bricked up.  The wagon repair shops are behind the old shed, and the building behind and to the right of North signal box would be part of that  complex.

 

I'd agree this would be shortly before the war, but can't comment on the stock. It's hard to think of a reason why Southern stock would be there, unless it is a special or excursion of some sort. I wouldn't have thought it would be allowed to occupy the Down main for very long, there was just too much trafic to allow that to happen.

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2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

 

Where to begin?   The A4 is on a train in a bay platform(?) facing north.  Is the stock Maunsell?    What was the capacity of that bay?   The stock looks empty to us - but why would a train using Southern stock be heading that way?   They don't seem in any hurry to be going anywhere, are they awaiting passengers?

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, great northern said:

 

 

I'd agree this would be shortly before the war, but can't comment on the stock. It's hard to think of a reason why Southern stock would be there, unless it is a special or excursion of some sort. I wouldn't have thought it would be allowed to occupy the Down main for very long, there was just too much trafic to allow that to happen.

 

Jonathan, did anyone suggest that the coaches might be ex North British?  The brake end vehicle behind the A4 looks quite like the NB Brake 3rd on p184, "British Railway Carriages of the 20th Century" (D. Jenkinson) vol 1.  Also unusual at PN I'd've thought, but perhaps less so than SR coaches!

 

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2 hours ago, phil.c said:

For research purpose only :)  Now this is the backscene you need Gilbert :)

 

1860870585_PeterboroughNorth2.jpg.10504f182a9f00104e7374bf09e2b9f7.jpg

Excellent Phil, but from Spital Bridge itself this one would be even more appropriate. Image is copyright of Andrew C Ingram, and reproduced with his permission.

 

 

671468465_engineersyard001.jpg.6217eefd787917e07fb74a950b47ab21.jpg

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The coaching stock in question does bear some resemblance to Maunsell's early Southern Railway Thanet stock, but I am not entirely convinced. And its appearance in such a place with such a loco does seem unlikely. 

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Just now, great northern said:

I have this photo in one of my books, but can't trace it at present.

Townend's  'East Coast Pacifics at Work'?

 

Just now, 31A said:

the coaches might be ex North British?

Agreed.   I think the next two carriages might be of this type;

 

1084638475_Scan_20190123(8).jpg.77158f4500385de77691cd193fa74368.jpg

 

(Dennis Seabrook Collection/LNER Society)

 

D

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56 minutes ago, great northern said:

Excellent Phil, but from Spital Bridge itself this one would be even more appropriate. Image is copyright of Andrew C Ingram, and reproduced with his permission.

i don't know the area, all I did was line up the engine sheds with yours, reduce them to approximately the same size, the picture was too short so it was stretched to size and extra sky added above.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, 31A said:

 

 

Jonathan, did anyone suggest that the coaches might be ex North British?  The brake end vehicle behind the A4 looks quite like the NB Brake 3rd on p184, "British Railway Carriages of the 20th Century" (D. Jenkinson) vol 1.  Also unusual at PN I'd've thought, but perhaps less so than SR coaches!

 

 

1 hour ago, Darryl Tooley said:

Townend's  'East Coast Pacifics at Work'?

 

Agreed.   I think the next two carriages might be of this type;

 

1084638475_Scan_20190123(8).jpg.77158f4500385de77691cd193fa74368.jpg

 

(Dennis Seabrook Collection/LNER Society)

 

D

Hi Jonathan, Gilbert, Steve and Darryl,

 

The leading coach has the same window arrangement as a NBR diagram 66B Corridor Van Third. I think Darryl is correct regarding the next two coaches, they do appear to be NBR Corridor Lavatory Thirds, possibly diagram 129B.

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