Peterborough North

[Clive Mortimore]

Haverstock Hill or Junction Road?

 

I think Haverstock Hill, looking towards Carlton Road Junction.

[great northern]

34 minutes ago, JamieR4489 said:

This is fascinating stuff, GN. I might pinch some of your ideas for Tuxford North.

 

A question, if I may. How have you worked out loco rosters? E.g. If a KGX pacific goes out on, say, the 1054 KGX to Newcastle, how have you figured out which working the engine returns on? I’d be interested to see pictures and explanations of your loco storage facilities as well. You mention the HMRS surveys quite a lot, do you know if there are prewar versions or equivalents as well?

 

Regards,

 

Jamie

I've trawled through the 1958 Railway Observers and Trains Illustrateds Jamie, and occasionally there are specific bits of information in there.  Then there are the books by people like Peter Coster, in which he also gives some details. Mostly though, it just has to be deduction and the application of common sense, so I just work out what time the loco would have got to its destination, then allow a minimum time for turning, servicing etc, and the time it would take to get back as far as PN. The easiest ones are probably the lodging turns, as they did get specifically mentioned in the magazines, and you know that locomotive won't be seen again the same day.

 

As to that HMRS Journal survey, as far as I know it was a one off week in July 1958. I'm dead lucky that it just happens to be almost smack on my time period. Whether anyone undertook that kind of survey pre war, I really don't know. You are certainly welcome to use any of my stuff that you think may be useful Jamie, and I'm here to help if I possibly can.

 

The loco storage is basically in various shelving units. Each loco sits in a numbered pigeon hole, most of them in Peco loco lifts to avoid handling all that lovely weathering that Tim has done. So, to take the example of that 9.40 Newcastle, at the top of the Powerpoint slide it tells me that is duty 34F Grantham 4. Then I just go to that storage box and put the loco sitting in that pigeon hole onto the front of the train. At the end of every sequence I try to remember to swop locos around to a degree, while remembering that some sheds allocated specific locos to particular duties.

 

By all means contact me by PM if you like,  then I can go into more detail than would be appropriate on here.

[JamieR4489]

Thank you very much GN, that’s all really helpful. I’ll start searching books but I’ll send a PM as well.

 

Jamie

[stewartingram]

14 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

Lets go with 'Royston Junc',  just up the road from Trumington.

 

manna

 

Is that Cambridge? Shepreth Branch Junction, south of Trumpington? The new Cambridge South station is to be built between the two.

[TrevorP1]

1 hour ago, great northern said:

 

>>>> For me, to know that what I now see running round is the correct formation according to the official records is well worth the time that it took to achieve it, both in planning, analysis, and actual physical movements.

 

Trevor and Jon, I'm sure I haven't answered all your queries, so please do ask again if there is clarification or more detail needed.

 

Thank you for those detailed explanations Gilbert.

 

Like you I feel the effort to 'get it right', or at least do my best is well worth the time taken and enjoyable to boot. This makes the organisation of stock vital or everything could quickly become an expensive nightmare! I have some cassettes similar to yours which take 4 coaches but I must get on and make some more. Your wheeled trolley is good idea which I think I will 'pinch'. 

 

It was interesting to see the way you have organised your loose stock. I have an old chest of drawers in my railway room which would be ideal for this purpose.

 

My embryo train organising system is on an Apple programme called 'Keynote' which is similar to Powerpoint. I can draw the sides up on the computer and use the same programme my phone in the railway room to guide me through the sequence. All very basic at the moment but it will be expanded as I go along.

 

One thing that it was interesting to learn is that you make up some trains as and when they are needed. I shall have to get in training to do it in 2 minutes though. Reliable couplings - the bain of our lives! - are obviously a factor in this. I'm working towards using a bar coupling system from James Train Parts on Shapeways. They aren't cheap in themselves but much cheaper than buying and storing unnecessary stock! 

 

 

[jazzer]

6 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

For me it's got to be Wood Green (today's Alexander Palace) in the late 50's and early 60's my home station and very busy, I can remember the N2's all of Gresley's loco's still about at the time and the wonderful 'clanky' WD's. Photo's taken by me. Oct 1970.

 

manna

As you have expressed it like that, it’s very difficult to disagree .  I never saw N 2’s on suburban trains, only ECS workings as DMUs were taking over the inner suburban by the time I got that far, and throw in some Gresley Pacifics getting into there stride it must have been wonderful,  so I’ll say Wood Green as well, on the basis that it’s a place I would love to have spent a day spotting there but didn’t. 

[Jon4470]

Thanks for the information about the fiddle yard and cassettes. Very useful.

 

Have you any guidance about how to decide on the fiddle yard/ kick back design?

I have created a sequence based on a timetable, and I have the train make ups from the carriage roster. I also have some information about the length of the goods trains. 

What I’m now trying to work out is how many sidings are required, how long they should be, which train goes in which one etc. 

Any pointers to a scientific approach gratefully received.

 

Alternately I will adopt an empirical method.......fit as many bits of track as possible and then play

 

Jon

[2750Papyrus]

4 hours ago, great northern said:

You get the wilful misunderstanding prize again Clive.  Next time, if there is one, the prize will be to be locked in a room with a person of my choice for two hours. I won't say who, but just be afraid, be very afraid.

Will the identity form the subject of a poll?

[great northern]

37 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

Thanks for the information about the fiddle yard and cassettes. Very useful.

 

Have you any guidance about how to decide on the fiddle yard/ kick back design?

I have created a sequence based on a timetable, and I have the train make ups from the carriage roster. I also have some information about the length of the goods trains. 

What I’m now trying to work out is how many sidings are required, how long they should be, which train goes in which one etc. 

Any pointers to a scientific approach gratefully received.

 

Alternately I will adopt an empirical method.......fit as many bits of track as possible and then play

 

Jon

How much space do you have to play with Jon?

[simontaylor484]

Kings Cross Thameslink

 

[Market65]

Well, for this poll, if I understand it correctly, I’ll go for Cottingham, which is three miles, and seventy seven chains from Hull Paragon station. I recall a four car Derby class 108 DMU stopping at that station back in late July, 1978, and it came to a stop off the end of the down platform! Someone remarked, “I think the driver is new”!

 

Rob.

[great northern]

2 minutes ago, Market65 said:

Well, for this poll, if I understand it correctly, I’ll go for Cottingham, which is three miles, and seventy seven chains from Hull Paragon station. I recall a four car Derby class 108 DMU stopping at that station back in late July, 1978, and it came to a stop off the end of the down platform! Someone remarked, “I think the driver is new”!

 

Rob.

Sorry Rob, I may not have been entirely clear about this. We are within five miles of London at the moment. Other places will follow.

[David Bell]

Denmark Hill which according to Wikipedia is 4 miles 22 chains from Victoria. Love the high level station building.

[Jon4470]

2 hours ago, great northern said:

How much space do you have to play with Jon?

 

I’m planning on 20’ by 10’ with a roundy roundy type of layout.

[great northern]

1 hour ago, Jon4470 said:

 

I’m planning on 20’ by 10’ with a roundy roundy type of layout.

Shall we carry on with this by PM Jon?  Might work better now we shall be talking about specifics.

[great northern]

Evening photos are of Mons Meg, which has backed on to the 1033 slow to KX and is beginning to move away.

 

 

and another shot after it had travelled just a little further.

 

 

[Market65]

3 hours ago, great northern said:

Sorry Rob, I may not have been entirely clear about this. We are within five miles of London at the moment. Other places will follow.

Ooops. Sorry, Gilbert. I did indeed misunderstand. So for this poll, I’m going with Finsbury Park, first station from King’s Cross on the lovely ECML.  
 

Rob.

[thegreenhowards]

I’ll go for FP too. Happy childhood memories of Deltics droning through, but I wish I could have gone back In time to see the Ally Pally shuttle....or even the streamliners!

[manna]

7 hours ago, stewartingram said:

 

Is that Cambridge? Shepreth Branch Junction, south of Trumpington? The new Cambridge South station is to be built between the two.

G'day Folks

 

Yes, where did I get Royston Junction from !! old age ?? Like the idea of a new station being built there.

 

manna

[manna]

6 hours ago, jazzer said:

As you have expressed it like that, it’s very difficult to disagree .  I never saw N 2’s on suburban trains, only ECS workings as DMUs were taking over the inner suburban by the time I got that far, and throw in some Gresley Pacifics getting into there stride it must have been wonderful,  so I’ll say Wood Green as well, on the basis that it’s a place I would love to have spent a day spotting there but didn’t. 

G'Day Folks

 

I often use to buy a child return to Hornsey, which allowed me (almost) unlimited time on the platform, and I'd wait for  a N2 and artic stock to arrive, rather than travel in a DMU, it often to quite a while for a N2 to arrive. I can also remember the J52's and J 50's shunting at Bounds Green c/s.

With eight tracks, there was always something moving, ECS, coal trains ( for Ferme Pk ) etc

 

manna

[great northern]

Early golf this morning, so here are the pictures. One A2/2 follows another, as 60505 runs past, on parcels duty yet again.

 

 

 

 

[great northern]

Poll result was a draw. Wood Green 2 Finsbury Park 2. FP is rather large for what I had in mind, but allowable on the criteria.

 

Outer suburbia of London today, up to about 30 miles from Termini. Not junctions, just through stations, which could still be on four track sections this close to the City. Where have you been or would have liked to be, to watch the trains go by?

[CUTLER2579]

Got to be Potters Bar for me . 

[JamieR4489]

Potter’s Bar for me as well. Hearing and seeing the down trains slogging up the bank would be spectacular.

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

I like Potters Bar, but I'm going for Hadley Wood, you never knew what was coming through those tunnels !!

 

manna