Peterborough North

[CUTLER2579]

How about putting up pictures of coaches and asking folks what Diagram they are ?

 

Just a thought A Gresley Dia 167 for example.

[jwealleans]

How many of us are (1) sad enough to be able to spot them without books and (2) sad enough to admit it?

 

I'm guilty on both counts but I don't believe that's much of a secret any more.

[great northern]

52 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

How many of us are (1) sad enough to be able to spot them without books and (2) sad enough to admit it?

 

I'm guilty on both counts but I don't believe that's much of a secret any more.

I would not classify anyone as sad just because they have acquired a lot of knowledge about a particular subject. After all, a lot of us can benefit from that knowledge when it is generously shared, and you certainly do that.

 

I agree though that it is a minority interest, comparatively speaking, and so might not be the best way forward.

[jwealleans]

Please don't see that as discouragement - I'm all in favour of looking at pictures of carriages and have been known to spend Friday nights in a Skype chat doing exactly that.  I think the main issue is that most of the really interesting pictures are copyright and so ineligible for this thread. 

 

I'm very happy to look at some of the highlights of your fiddle yard, though, Gilbert - some of the GN vehicles, the artic twin (do you have more than one of those?) and maybe the ex-Coronation twin with the additional doors?   i think yours was the first time I'd seen one of those modelled.

[LNER4479]

"Little do ye know your own blessedness; for to travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive, and the true success is to labour." Thus spoketh Robert Louis Stevenson, from Virginibus Puerisque, 1881. Apparent echoing an earlier Taoist saying "The journey is the reward".

 

Not exactly sure (but keen to find out) what you're angling at when you say 'broadening our horizons' but it seems to me that we can either talk about the (rail) journey or the destination (which may or may not be an object of railway interest).

 

Although I always enjoy exploring new places, I do indeed enjoy the (rail) journey. I am blessed with the privilege of a free country-wide rail pass which I have taken full advantage of over the years and there are few UK routes that I still need to 'ink'. However, conscious that others might prefer to focus on the destination and there won't be many who routinely travel all over the country (notwithstanding the current unpleasantness) by rail.

 

So what do we go for? The journey or the destination? Happy to participate in a group lockdown amusement activity of your choosing.

 

[thegreenhowards]

1 hour ago, jwealleans said:

Please don't see that as discouragement - I'm all in favour of looking at pictures of carriages and have been known to spend Friday nights in a Skype chat doing exactly that.  I think the main issue is that most of the really interesting pictures are copyright and so ineligible for this thread. 

 

I'm very happy to look at some of the highlights of your fiddle yard, though, Gilbert - some of the GN vehicles, the artic twin (do you have more than one of those?) and maybe the ex-Coronation twin with the additional doors?   i think yours was the first time I'd seen one of those modelled.

The agree button is not enough for that post. I always love seeing the rolling stock.

 

Why not let Gilbert put up pictures of his carriages (which won’t have a copyright) issue and let us guess the diagram?!

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

7 hours ago, great northern said:

No, I don't miss the 19th at all as things are. It was OK when we could sit out on the patio in the fresh air, but confined inside with all the artificial restrictions just feels wrong, awkward and frankly not very safe. That's what Phil Steve Clive and myself felt like when we met at Newark a while back. I'll just go back to lying low, and wait to see what happens.

 

I was wondering about polls, or some other group activity to keep us all amused, but I'm struggling to find new ideas. As it happens though, I had thought about " the view from the train" , but it would be scenic views or views of railway interest or significance, not golf courses. I noticed in the earlier polls that people's reaction was usually governed by personal experience, but could we broaden our horizons? I feel I know a little about a lot of places I have never visited from what I've read in books and magazines, so could that work if we approached it in a more general way?

You could broaden it abroad. Favourite routes, loco classes etc.

[great northern]

Lots of food for thought. While I'm digesting it, here are the promised photos of the West Hill Wagon Works replacement NEM pocket for Bachmann MK1 bogies. Much delayed, as Royal Mail lost the first batch, and took several days to get the replacements to me.

 

 

 Original on right, just undo the screw, remove assembly, replace with Hunt, screw in, and job done. Pocket will accept Hunt's own, as seen here, or either kadees or tension locks. I also did one of my best Willets Gresleys, on which a little filing and fettling was needed, but only a couple of minutes work, and job done.

[TrevorP1]

6 minutes ago, great northern said:

Lots of food for thought. While I'm digesting it, here are the promised photos of the West Hill Wagon Works replacement NEM pocket for Bachmann MK1 bogies. Much delayed, as Royal Mail lost the first batch, and took several days to get the replacements to me.

 

 

 Original on right, just undo the screw, remove assembly, replace with Hunt, screw in, and job done. Pocket will accept Hunt's own, as seen here, or either kadees or tension locks. I also did one of my best Willets Gresleys, on which a little filing and fettling was needed, but only a couple of minutes work, and job done.

 

The Hunt couplings really are a game changer for fixed and semi-fixed rakes and West Hill are coming up with new fitting variations every few weeks.

 

If you don't need the coupling to be easily removable they can be adapted for all sorts of locations such to reduce the gap where a manufacturer has positioned the NEM socket too far forward. They need to be epoxied in place as the plastic is not affected by solvent. I've also pinned mine as a belt and braces approach.  The problems I had with the Hornby Collett stock - it may apply to others where the bogie is close to the end of the coach - have been overcome by filing a chamfer on the forked end of the coupling.

 

I haven't had any success with short wheelbase and quite light goods stock. The Hunts are rigid obviously and the lighter wagons seem to appreciate a bit of 'give'. As all of my engines are now fitted with Hunts I have some 'adaptor wagons' with extra weight in them. This seems to be successful.

[great northern]

44 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

The agree button is not enough for that post. I always love seeing the rolling stock.

 

Why not let Gilbert put up pictures of his carriages (which won’t have a copyright) issue and let us guess the diagram?!

 

 

I might have to guess it myself first though.

[jazzer]

On 02/11/2020 at 14:34, Oldddudders said:

I have very little experience of the workings of a steam-age railway, obviously, but the BT Films "This Is York" mentions a train having 10 minutes stop there while various chores, not including re-forming, are undertaken. Taking water is a bit important, but that assumes a station pilot adding and removing vehicles while the train loco is stationary at the pipe. OTOH a Catterick Camp service is hardly a prestige train, so a leisurely schedule is likely. I'm afraid only a contemporary CWN (Carriage Working Notice) could confirm. 

I don’t know if I was looking at the same part of the film as you but in the middle where the station master refers to the various jobs that need to be carried out he says that they have to be done in “ less than ten minutes” and the train in question at that part of the film is actually KX - Newcastle which expresses generally seemed to spend about 4- 5 minutes at York but I think he is talking about all trains not especially the one in shot at the time. You have to remember also that the film makers and scriptwriters are not anoraks like us and probably don’t scrutinise the timetables in too much detail. the other thing is that the Public Timetables and Working Time Tables often had different times, so for example I think the public  timetable gave the ACE a two minute stop at Salisbury but the WTT gave five minutes and even that was often not enough to take water, shovel coal forward and detach a coach, so it very difficult to be precise about any of this.

Back to Gilbert’s point: I have an ER timetable for Summer 1960 and I can’t find the Catterick camp train in it so either it had disappeared by that date or for some reason didn’t appear in the public timetable. So I guess the answer is we’ll probably never really know. 
 

I have to say though I find Gilbert’s thread fascinating as there are so many trains that were about to disappear from the scene completely that I wouldn’t have otherwise known about . 
 

 

[great northern]

Tonight, another photographer seems to be in an upstairs room in a house on Station Road, which must be how he (or she) got this angle on the Ivatt.

 

 

The one on Crescent Bridge has stayed put, as after the Ivatt has removed its stock, he has recorded the arrival of the 6.20 local from Grantham.

 

 

You may observe that the roof to the left has apparently bowed in, and may be about to collapse. That worried me enough to go up and check, only to find that it is a figment of the camera's imagination.

[manna]

G'day Folks

 

I think the Catterick Camp leave train was a 'Runs as required' type of train.

 

manna

[thegreenhowards]

15 hours ago, great northern said:

Lots of food for thought. While I'm digesting it, here are the promised photos of the West Hill Wagon Works replacement NEM pocket for Bachmann MK1 bogies. Much delayed, as Royal Mail lost the first batch, and took several days to get the replacements to me.

 

 

 Original on right, just undo the screw, remove assembly, replace with Hunt, screw in, and job done. Pocket will accept Hunt's own, as seen here, or either kadees or tension locks. I also did one of my best Willets Gresleys, on which a little filing and fettling was needed, but only a couple of minutes work, and job done.

Gilbert,

 

That looks good and could provide a solution to many coaches, not just Bachmann Thompsons. 
 

One question if I may. I’m thinking of converting my loose stock over as it would make coupling the rakes up much easier. Are you converting your loose stock? If so, how are you coping with the end coach? I am planning to keep tension locks for the end of my rakes because so many of my locos have a TW style ‘goal’. I initially assumed I’d just leave a tension lock on the end but the brakes often go in the middle of the train and then I’m stuffed! Any thoughts?

 

Andy

[great northern]

The 5.00pm from KX has arrived, it is formed as a MK1 5 set, but was often Pacific hauled, as today, when Happy Knight has the easy task.

 

 

we also have another plonk.

 

 

[great northern]

1 hour ago, manna said:

G'day Folks

 

I think the Catterick Camp leave train was a 'Runs as required' type of train.

 

manna

Both my WTT and CWN show it as a regular train in summer 58, and the stock was required for an early SO departure from KX, so I think on balance it is OK as I do it. Anyway, I decide what is required, don't I?

[great northern]

37 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Gilbert,

 

That looks good and could provide a solution to many coaches, not just Bachmann Thompsons. 
 

One question if I may. I’m thinking of converting my loose stock over as it would make coupling the rakes up much easier. Are you converting your loose stock? If so, how are you coping with the end coach? I am planning to keep tension locks for the end of my rakes because so many of my locos have a TW style ‘goal’. I initially assumed I’d just leave a tension lock on the end but the brakes often go in the middle of the train and then I’m stuffed! Any thoughts?

 

Andy

Nearly all of my locos have kadees at buffer beam height, so we both have the same problem. At least short term I have quite a lot of stock, mainly brakes, which has a kadee at one end. After my reorganisation I now have more loose stock though, and so I do have brakes with Hunts at both ends when needed in the middle of a formation.

 

This new box from Hunt will also mean that I can start to get rid of kadees in the middle of formations too, assuming the spares continue to be available. I think it will be a long time before I can completely standardise on Hunts though.

[TrevorP1]

2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Gilbert,

 

That looks good and could provide a solution to many coaches, not just Bachmann Thompsons. 
 

One question if I may. I’m thinking of converting my loose stock over as it would make coupling the rakes up much easier. Are you converting your loose stock? If so, how are you coping with the end coach? I am planning to keep tension locks for the end of my rakes because so many of my locos have a TW style ‘goal’. I initially assumed I’d just leave a tension lock on the end but the brakes often go in the middle of the train and then I’m stuffed! Any thoughts?

 

Andy

 

I haven't got anything like the number of vehicles that Gilbert and others have but for what it's worth I have a small number of vehicles that are kept to run at the rear of trains. They do not have any working couplings and I'm working towards them having dummy screws, hoses, gangway covers and lamps.

[jwealleans]

While Gilbert contemplates, here's something to amuse you for about 15 minutes.  I'm not sure whether PN features, some of the locations we haven't identified.

 

https://mirc.sc.edu/islandora/object/usc:34684

 

These are the outtakes; shame we haven't tracked down the final film yet.

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

The Catterick train, maybe in the Working Timetable, but that would also be a 'Pathing' purpose's, the train itself could still be 'runs as required'.

 

manna

[Flying Fox 34F]

2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

While Gilbert contemplates, here's something to amuse you for about 15 minutes.  I'm not sure whether PN features, some of the locations we haven't identified.

 

https://mirc.sc.edu/islandora/object/usc:34684

 

These are the outtakes; shame we haven't tracked down the final film yet.

Jonathan,

 

A great selection of outtakes. PN is present.  The footage runs from under the Crescent bridge, past the Power Station then over the Nene River Viaduct. There are a selection of carriages below on the approaches to the East station as the train passes over the viaduct.  There are also scenes at Hitchin, Woodwalton, Helpston, Lolham. No prizes for Welwyn!!!!  The curious little snippet is of GNR Somersaults signals with either an ex GER D13 or D14 passing on the opposite.  A lovely sight.

Anyway, I’ve spotted that most of the footage has been recorded from the back of a train, but then played backwards. The PN section implies the train is moving south on the Down Slow line??????

If you find anymore, I’d love to see it.

 

All the best

 

Paul

 

[great northern]

2 hours ago, jwealleans said:

While Gilbert contemplates, here's something to amuse you for about 15 minutes.  I'm not sure whether PN features, some of the locations we haven't identified.

 

https://mirc.sc.edu/islandora/object/usc:34684

 

These are the outtakes; shame we haven't tracked down the final film yet.

That's really interesting Jonathan, thanks very much. Carriage heaven for you, the first few minutes? Definitely PN, as Paul says, but the first time I've seen the view from a train heading South from Platform 6.

[great northern]

30 minutes ago, Flying Fox 34F said:

Jonathan,

 

A great selection of outtakes. PN is present.  The footage runs from under the Crescent bridge, past the Power Station then over the Nene River Viaduct. There are a selection of carriages below on the approaches to the East station as the train passes over the viaduct.  There are also scenes at Hitchin, Woodwalton, Helpston, Lolham. No prizes for Welwyn!!!!  The curious little snippet is of GNR Somersaults signals with either an ex GER D13 or D14 passing on the opposite.  A lovely sight.

Anyway, I’ve spotted that most of the footage has been recorded from the back of a train, but then played backwards. The PN section implies the train is moving south on the Down Slow line??????

If you find anymore, I’d love to see it.

 

All the best

 

Paul

 

You identified a bit more than I could Paul. The PN sequence shows a train leaving from Platform 6 and heading south. I thought at first it was heading for the chord down to East, but then came the views further down the ECML. I wonder if they were actually part of a different sequence.

[great northern]

2 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

The Catterick train, maybe in the Working Timetable, but that would also be a 'Pathing' purpose's, the train itself could still be 'runs as required'.

 

manna

I suppose then KX would have to find the stock for the next morning's northbound working?

[Flying Fox 34F]

6 minutes ago, great northern said:

You identified a bit more than I could Paul. The PN sequence shows a train leaving from Platform 6 and heading south. I thought at first it was heading for the chord down to East, but then came the views further down the ECML. I wonder if they were actually part of a different sequence.

Gilbert,

 

I agree the sequence of scenes is out of order, but I suspect the on train sections have been played in reverse. The views seem to be from the back of a train. There is one section where the train enters a small station on the wrong line in the wrong direction. The signals on the adjacent line reinforce my thoughts.

 

Paul

Edited November 4, 2020 by Flying Fox 34F
Word missed out