Peterborough North

[great northern]

A rear three quarter B17 view tonight,

 

 

and a look at what's behind the tender.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and finally the odd one out. Why was one non corridor caoch specified in this formation, I wonder?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Ah - you're awake then!

 

Just goes to show - never throw anything away, JUST in case it comes in useful. Mwahahahaaaa ...

 

It was actually the 85/86 brochure, must have come with my 'bumper pack' the year I joined (for many of the same reasons as you).

 

You were in good company that year - Carolyn Griffiths was alongside you!

 

And there does seem to be a predominance of pictures of folks standing next to weird and wonderful looking giant computers that were obviously hand-me-downs from the set of Star Trek ...

I also joined the management training scheme that year but I very much doubt I’ve still got the brochure!

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Ah - you're awake then!

 

Just goes to show - never throw anything away, JUST in case it comes in useful. Mwahahahaaaa ...

 

It was actually the 85/86 brochure, must have come with my 'bumper pack' the year I joined (for many of the same reasons as you).

 

You were in good company that year - Carolyn Griffiths was alongside you!

 

And there does seem to be a predominance of pictures of folks standing next to weird and wonderful looking giant computers that were obviously hand-me-downs from the set of Star Trek ...

I don't throw much away. That's why I need a big layout to store stuff under. My copy of the brochure is probably still there somewhere.

 

85/86 would be right. I moved on from Brighton to Leeds in September 1985.

 

Carolyn followed me at Brighton as it happens.

Edited December 10, 2020 by St Enodoc

[Oldddudders]

3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Carolyn followed me at Brighton as it happens.

Which is where I met her circa 1987, in my NSE South Central days. I think she'd been Deputy Engineer at Selhurst. Did Dave Miller follow her at Lovers Walk? I had been a staff entrant to the Management Training Scheme in 1973, having joined BR in 1966.

 

Apologies to Gilbert for prolonging the tittle-tattle!

[St Enodoc]

16 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Which is where I met her circa 1987, in my NSE South Central days. I think she'd been Deputy Engineer at Selhurst. Did Dave Miller follow her at Lovers Walk? I had been a staff entrant to the Management Training Scheme in 1973, having joined BR in 1966.

 

Apologies to Gilbert for prolonging the tittle-tattle!

My apologies to Gilbert too, although I reckon Graham @LNER4479 is really to blame. Carolyn was at Selhurst Inspection Shed while I was at Lovers' Walk (and @hongkongmike of this parish was at Selhurst Repair Shop, both under Derek Woolvett). Carolyn followed me, I followed Andrew Shepherd and Andrew followed Dave Miller (and his pipe). My knowledge of the family tree doesn't go back any further I'm afraid.

 

Perhaps we should start a separate thread for Superannuated Railwaymen's and Railwaywomen's Nostalgic Reminiscences.

[great northern]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

My apologies to Gilbert too, although I reckon Graham @LNER4479 is really to blame. Carolyn was at Selhurst Inspection Shed while I was at Lovers' Walk (and @hongkongmike of this parish was at Selhurst Repair Shop, both under Derek Woolvett). Carolyn followed me, I followed Andrew Shepherd and Andrew followed Dave Miller (and his pipe). My knowledge of the family tree doesn't go back any further I'm afraid.

 

Perhaps we should start a separate thread for Superannuated Railwaymen's and Railwaywomen's Nostalgic Reminiscences.

Please carry on. Reminiscenses from those of you who were actually there and did things are both enjoyable and valuable. Pity you couldn't have started about 30 years earlier though.

[great northern]

Back to golf. It is dark, it is cold, am I very stupid, or just ordinary stupid?

 

A close up of Ivatt 43108, journey complete. From what I've seen of the loco diagrams for the M&GN section, it probably won't have much more to do today. That's in reality, on PN, where there are only four of them, it will work quite hard.

 

 

It actually had to get out of the way quickly, so that another 9F could bring another Class C through on its way to London.

 

 

[St Enodoc]

8 minutes ago, great northern said:

Pity you couldn't have started about 30 years earlier though.

Well, if I had I probably wouldn't be in a position to write about them now...

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, great northern said:

Please carry on. Reminiscenses from those of you who were actually there and did things are both enjoyable and valuable. Pity you couldn't have started about 30 years earlier though.

Well, I was going to say, the District Operating Superintendent did ask for reminiscences ... not sure he had QUITE these type in mind? I could bring in to bat:

• A day trip from Derby to Llandudno and back on the track recording DMU - just enough time to buy some rock at the seaside!
• Two weeks at Old Dalby test track, pushing and pulling 91001 as fast as we could
• A trip from Manchester to Plymouth and back, sitting in a MkI RBR (marshalled additionally in the train), drinking as much tea and coffee as we could to test out the newly-installed electric water boiler

Great company to work for was BR!

[FarrMan]

13 hours ago, stewartingram said:

I've heard it said there are a lot of old bags in certain parts of Peterborough.....

Coming from Peterborough, I resent that. On second thoughts - you're right!

 

Lloyd

[Bogie]

19 hours ago, great northern said:

The coupling conundrum solved. It is a ROCO close coupling. That's the easy part. How did it get there? I haven't a clue, as I took all ROCO stuff off months ago. I am absolutely certain it didn't come off a coach or wagon while under there, so I'm at a loss. It only appeared very recently too, not visible on previous photos of that area. Very strange.

 

Watch out.  Next thing one of those stupid monoliths will appear on your layout!

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

I did once work on a train to 'Donny', following the Duke of Edinburgh, in one of the Prototype HST's, we kept catching it up, ended up being late !

 

manna

[jazzer]

4 hours ago, great northern said:

Please carry on. Reminiscences from those of you who were actually there and did things are both enjoyable and valuable. Pity you couldn't have started about 30 years earlier though.

 

 This is not actually a personal reminiscence but I have  copied a few extracts From Clive Groome's book recording the diary entries he meticulously kept, recording his daily  experiences as a Nine Elms driver in the last years of steam , which I think quite a few of you will find interesting . It is probably unique as possibly the only such diary that we now have, that was written by someone who actually did the job rather than a journalist,  and I think gives a nice insight to the ups and downs of  footplate life  :-

 

1964

7.54 pm Waterloo- Basingstoke 

 May 20thStandard 5No 73110 The Red Knight  on the down. Brian (the fireman )did the driving from Farnborough to Hook , and made a good job of the braking too. 30051Channel Packet  on the up , a bit of a shaker this one. The cab doesn't seem to be attached to the boiler at all but she was very light on coal and  sped quite effortlessly along. Rain poured down all way making signal finding unpleasant. What a shame the days of the big Pacific are numbered. Everyone dreads the end of steam I think .

June 12th

S15 30854on the down, Brian driving again. Right time everywhere. Up with ten bogies and 34039  Boscastle . We had our usual curry breakfast but feeling too hot to sleep we walked to a nearby playground and found some swings and had a go. . Brian kept a vey light fire home  on  34039 just to see if he could do it. 

June 13th -  Pouring rain  , flashing lightning and aQ1 . A load of forty-five equal to 450tons. The engine was doing its last turn before withdrawal. We had a bad start and left with only half a glass of water and 140lbs of steam. Very risky with these slow injectors. However we kept going well and eventually filled the boiler although we never did have more than 140lbs of steam. Conditions in the cab were ghastly, water poured down my back from the roof and the heat and humidity soon had the sweat pouring off Brian as he worked on the fire with shovel and pricker. At last around Farnborough the rain stopped and we hung thankfully out of the sides to breath the  misty but cool air. The smell of trees and earth was intense , like a giant Turkish bath.

29th August A week of rows with the shunters who  are trying to get back at me for my right time departures from the   loco depot on the return of the 12.40 am goods. Saturday night we were relieved as we ran in which meant we had time for a stroll and a couple of pints. . We had Standard 5 73114 Etarre down and we did London to Woking in 27 minutes despite a three minute signal stop ay Hampton Court. . Back to London with 73086  The Green Knight . My mate, R. Bell , was a little bit under the weather till we got to Woking and I had to both drive and fire the engine myself.

 1965 

3.38pm vans to Basingstoke. 

November 2nd 

Prepared 34008 Padstow for the turn. A rough riding engine but Kevin made her steam freely. A couple of pints at the Rising Sun then at 7.00pm with 600tons on we departed for Feltham , arrived 8.50pm. Light engine to Nine Elms . Dropping into loco our wheels picked up down the hill. It was difficult to re-establish braking. Two minutes later a standard 5 did the same and ran into the back of us, buffer locking the two engines.

2.30 am newspaper train to Basingstoke.

There is a unique relationship between a fireman and his driver which will be completely destroyed by the diesel. This week I've had the pleasure of seeing my fireman develop his art to a high degree. As the week passed he realised the need for careful preparation of the fire and the value of "little and often " firing. At the right away no dart or pricker was needed and the fire door is only half closed. Sands are opened and l the left lever is hard over until we attained 20mph, whipping the fire white hot almost at once. . Each day he grew better at this and

 on the last day I felt really proud of him as we accelerated a nine coach train up the hill from Farnborough to reach 50mphpassing mile post 31. 200lbs in the steam chest boiler pressure at 240lbs , the blast was terrific, but he kept pace with it. . At the end of the run I looked in the firebox. No fire irons had been used yet the fire was a uniform depth over the grate. I am  now confident of him on any train any engine.

1966

2.45am Newspaper train  to Bournemouth

Jan 27th 34021. Dartmoor, Fireman T. Moult. A really fine engine and a lovely  run. Up with 34087 145 Squadron. Another good one , eleven on and right time everywhere. The New Forest was very nice this morning with rusty fern and heather.. Moss covered fences and ancient trees against the clear dawn sky.  We swept through it over the undulating curves , passing grazing cattle and ponies, and along to the ships at the new docks at Southampton.

30th January . 3.20 am newspaper train to Basingstoke. 34082 with only two bogies ! Fireman Vic Spillet. I had a terrible job to keep awake and could not take the train seriously. in fact I lost time on it.  Back light engine to Nine Elms and disposed. Countless reports ! None of which I could explain truthfully.

February 12th 5.30 pm Waterloo to  Basingstoke with 35036 Lamport and Holt Line  . and eleven bogies.. Fireman Vic Spillet. A good trip., had a few pints. Up with Standard 4MT2-6-0 76069  and eight bogies. The fireman was drunk so I  just told him to shovel stop, shovel stop. We travelled at 66mph most of the way on full regulator with 25% cut off and we had half a glass of water with boiler pressure at 160lbs. Arrived right time

 

Six moths diesel training intervened

1967

3.35 pm Waterloo to Basingstoke

March 3rd.A   Crompton diesel down, my first mainline diesel turn. I never bothered to note the number of any diesel I drove. It was flat out most of the way down. and arrived right time. We then travelled "pass" to Southampton Central by the same train and had a couple of pints. At 7.34 pm we relieved the crew of 35007 Aberdeen Commonwealth  with twelve bogies non stop to Waterloo.. It was lovely to be back on a steam engine after weeks of diesel training. To handle a pacific like this one was a real pleasure . She accelerated better than any Crompton. She tore up the bank and maintained 85 mph effortlessly and endlessly, steaming freely with Frank firing nicely. To drive engines like this must be the summit of my  life as an engine driver. No matter how hard I try to think of diesels as being quite interesting , one trip on a good pacific just makes those thoughts hollow mockery and an exercise in self deception..

 

One year later ....

1968 

Almost a year now since Nine Elms closed and the longest 12 months of work I have ever known. When driving steam engines you had plenty of adrenaline running round the system, no doubt it is the lack of it which make it so difficult  for me to stay awake on diesel and electric trains. My job is featureless now. . Nine Elms, its rails cut and lifted, its ancient machinery removed , its tall coaling tower powerfully beaten to bits by a weight swinging crane has n]been overtaken by vegetation. Grimy shattered windows let the wandering wind move through empty offices and cabins.. Not a sound breaks the stillness, not a wisp of smoke muddies the air. And how sentimentally we make this pilgrimage. Almost every driver and fireman when booked to shunt in Nine Elms Goods Yard makes the trek to the old shed . Freely we admit to having tears in our eyes. Such rough, undisciplined rogues, but with such affection for our old home. No-one calls a diesel or electric "her" or "she " anymore. That strange convention seems to have died out on 9th July 1967

[bigwordsmith]

I have a feeling that quoting from Clive's book could lead to some copyright issues, especially as it is only a couple years old.

 

To ensure Gilbert isn't on the wrong side of tetchy letters from his learned friends,  could I heartily recommend that everyone here buys it, if they haven't already?

 

It's only £4.50 on Amazon  and you can get your own copy from the link below.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Steam-Final-Years-Extracts/dp/1522010343/ref=asc_df_1522010343/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310943444083&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15726968325167394418&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045843&hvtargid=pla-585972856259&psc=1&th=1&psc=1

[Joseph_Pestell]

Clive's a great communicator. Attended two talks by him ( a long time ago now).

 

Bumped into him in the pub one evening and he was offering a free place on one of his steam training days at the Bluebell as he had a late cancellation. I was unable to take up the offer as I had an important work appointment the next day. In hindsight, I should have thrown a "sickie".

[great northern]

Time for the second loco that came out of the parcel yesterday, this time an A1, which has had a change of identity.

This used to be 60139 Sea Eagle, but it was pointed out to me that if it was August 58 it had just come off Plant, where it had had a boiler change! So, it was now "wrong", unless everything moved back a few weeks, in which case something else would have been bound to become wrong instead.

 

In the end, I decided that this bugged me sufficiently to make it necessary to do something about it, and so it had to become something which was right.  60144 Kings Courier was an engine I remembered well, right back to early spotting days when it was at Grantham. By August 58 it was a Doncaster engine, and I found  a very good picture of it on Doncaster shed, very precisely dated to that month. It had emerged from its last general on 21/3/57, and must have been one of the last Pacifics to receive the old emblem, which the picture showed it still carried.

 

So, off it went to Tim, with a request to do it as in that picture. He has really gone to town on this one, and added quite a bit of detail, as well as doing the finest painting and weathering job I have yet seen from him. The pictures below, taken as the sky got ever darker, don't do it full justice, but Tim will post his full sunlight shots later, and you will see exactly what he has achieved. He will also tell you more about the extra detail.

 

 

 

 

 

[jazzer]

23 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Clive's a great communicator. Attended two talks by him ( a long time ago now).

 

Bumped into him in the pub one evening and he was offering a free place on one of his steam training days at the Bluebell as he had a late cancellation. I was unable to take up the offer as I had an important work appointment the next day. In hindsight, I should have thrown a "sickie".

I did all of his courses progressively from the introductory to the top grade.  He is a great mine of information. The things that make his Footplate Days and ways courses far better than the usual driver experience course on preserved lines is that one Clives courses you don’t just sit in the cab pulling levers like most of the others, you get to do everything, from lighting the fire and oiling round in the morning, to coupling up, filling water, and putting it to bed at night. Great fun. He gave it up a while back though. I think he must be about 85 now. 

[jazzer]

12 minutes ago, great northern said:

Time for the second loco that came out of the parcel yesterday, this time an A1, which has had a change of identity.

This used to be 60139 Sea Eagle, but it was pointed out to me that if it was August 58 it had just come off Plant, where it had had a boiler change! So, it was now "wrong", unless everything moved back a few weeks, in which case something else would have been bound to become wrong instead.

 

In the end, I decided that this bugged me sufficiently to make it necessary to do something about it, and so it had to become something which was right.  60144 Kings Courier was an engine I remembered well, right back to early spotting days when it was at Grantham. By August 58 it was a Doncaster engine, and I found  a very good picture of it on Doncaster shed, very precisely dated to that month. It had emerged from its last general on 21/3/57, and must have been one of the last Pacifics to receive the old emblem, which the picture showed it still carried.

 

So, off it went to Tim, with a request to do it as in that picture. He has really gone to town on this one, and added quite a bit of detail, as well as doing the finest painting and weathering job I have yet seen from him. The pictures below, taken as the sky got ever darker, don't do it full justice, but Tim will post his full sunlight shots later, and you will see exactly what he has achieved. He will also tell you more about the extra detail.

 

 

 

 

 

In order to enlighten us Gilbert , what visual difference would the boiler change have made ?

[bigwordsmith]

25 minutes ago, jazzer said:

I did all of his courses progressively from the introductory to the top grade.  He is a great mine of information. The things that make his Footplate Days and ways courses far better than the usual driver experience course on preserved lines is that one Clives courses you don’t just sit in the cab pulling levers like most of the others, you get to do everything, from lighting the fire and oiling round in the morning, to coupling up, filling water, and putting it to bed at night. Great fun. He gave it up a while back though. I think he must be about 85 now. 

in April 2017 number 103 visited the Bluebell where in a very notable first she was crewed at one part of the weekend by an all female crew.

 

Not only was this a first, but crew rostering brought three members of the same family to the footplate of "Flying Scotsman" on the final day of the Bluebell Railway's Flying Scotsman Gala Event. Liz Groome, Clive’s eldest daughter, was driving, supported by her sisters Ruth and Rebecca, acting as fireman and cleaner respectively. Meanwhile Clive was also on duty, driving S15 No. 847.

 

A few months ago, through work,  I met Gordon Owen who was GM of the railway at the time of Scotsman’s visit. It was he  who also introduced the incredibly successful Deltic weekend 

 

I asked him how on Earth they managed to miss out on one of the most easily sold publicity coups of the century by not having the girls pictures blasted over the National Press.

 

apparently they ‘didn’t want to make a fuss’

 

what an amazing hobby that sees driving 103 with your family as just another day in the (unpaid) Office!

[great northern]

1 hour ago, jazzer said:

In order to enlighten us Gilbert , what visual difference would the boiler change have made ?

The dome was positioned further forward. There is a picture of 60139 in RCTS 2A which could well have been taken just after it came back into traffic, and the difference from the normal Dia 117 is clear. Well, clear enough for me to feel that it was something that should be dealt with, anyway.

[Oldddudders]

9 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Well, I was going to say, the District Operating Superintendent did ask for reminiscences ... not sure he had QUITE these type in mind? I could bring in to bat:

• A day trip from Derby to Llandudno and back on the track recording DMU - just enough time to buy some rock at the seaside!
• Two weeks at Old Dalby test track, pushing and pulling 91001 as fast as we could
• A trip from Manchester to Plymouth and back, sitting in a MkI RBR (marshalled additionally in the train), drinking as much tea and coffee as we could to test out the newly-installed electric water boiler

Great company to work for was BR!

I can't quite compete with those splendid duty tasks, but did in one fortnight in 1985 enjoy a trip over the Festiniog Railway, and a whole day out in a "private" DMU running around some lines in Cheshire. Both trips were part of a fortnight's course at the Crewe Arms Hotel, hosted by BRB staff and Dr Robert Smith of DTp (as it was then called), intended to be an induction and orientation for the newly created BRB Investment Adviser's organisation and Principal and Regional Investment Analysts, some of the key people being incomers. I have to say the things I learned on that course stood me in good stead for a number of years, which isn't always the case!

[Timara]

As mentioned above by Gilbert,  here's how 'King's Courier' looks in a bit of outdoor sunlight.   Modifications wise, I've had to do a lot to bring it into line with the current RTR standard,  which hasn't been without its challenges. 

 

The lack of pipework detail at the rear of the smokebox is a big omission in my mind.  I've added similar to my various A2 conversions in the past, so this wasn't too taxing.  Drilling fine holes into the cast running plate isn't so fun though, but no drills were snapped!  I've also added the conduit up to the light on the top of the smokebox, mot least because the original one snapped off somehow. Its replacement was a spare left over from an A2.

 

Anyway, photos...

 

 

 

 

Cheers!

 

[Mallard60022]

3 hours ago, great northern said:

Time for the second loco that came out of the parcel yesterday, this time an A1, which has had a change of identity.

This used to be 60139 Sea Eagle, but it was pointed out to me that if it was August 58 it had just come off Plant, where it had had a boiler change! So, it was now "wrong", unless everything moved back a few weeks, in which case something else would have been bound to become wrong instead.

 

In the end, I decided that this bugged me sufficiently to make it necessary to do something about it, and so it had to become something which was right.  60144 Kings Courier was an engine I remembered well, right back to early spotting days when it was at Grantham. By August 58 it was a Doncaster engine, and I found  a very good picture of it on Doncaster shed, very precisely dated to that month. It had emerged from its last general on 21/3/57, and must have been one of the last Pacifics to receive the old emblem, which the picture showed it still carried.

 

So, off it went to Tim, with a request to do it as in that picture. He has really gone to town on this one, and added quite a bit of detail, as well as doing the finest painting and weathering job I have yet seen from him. The pictures below, taken as the sky got ever darker, don't do it full justice, but Tim will post his full sunlight shots later, and you will see exactly what he has achieved. He will also tell you more about the extra detail.

 

 

 

 

 

Damn handsome engines the A1s. Damn fine job done in that one too.

 

[New Haven Neil]

Fine, fine work Tim, well observed weathering, sublime in fact.  Lovely.

[Mallard60022]

3 hours ago, jazzer said:

I did all of his courses progressively from the introductory to the top grade.  He is a great mine of information. The things that make his Footplate Days and ways courses far better than the usual driver experience course on preserved lines is that one Clives courses you don’t just sit in the cab pulling levers like most of the others, you get to do everything, from lighting the fire and oiling round in the morning, to coupling up, filling water, and putting it to bed at night. Great fun. He gave it up a while back though. I think he must be about 85 now. 

One of his Daughters was firing on my simpler course in 2001. She might be doing the honours now?  I liked Mr. Groom and yes, even on the simple course we had to do a great deal. My achievement was stopping exactly where he had chalked a mark on the platform in line with the mark on the Cab step/floor.  His book is a good read too.

Phil