Peterborough North

[great northern]

12 minutes ago, davidw said:

I was referring to the CK. Apologies if Tim is doing coaches. Thanks

Sorry. Yes Hornby with replacement sides. Bedford, I believe, were used.

[Clive Mortimore]

Patrick Stirling????

 

After lots of thinking about his 2-4-0 and 0-4-2 classes, even his 0-6-0 engines and their tank engine variations it has to be his 2-2-2s classes B3 and B7 far better looking than his 4-2-2 which will win. Even better looking when Ivatt put a dome on them, and bit more cab.

[Metropolitan H]

In terms of successsfully doing the job they were built for - for an awfully long time - my vote goes to the GNR J14 (LNER J53) 0-6-0ST - especially the ones fitted with condensing apparatus for working over the Metropolitan Railway lines.

 

Regards

Chris H

[2750Papyrus]

My Stirling nomination will be rather vague in terms of class designation, but a narrative description would be "standard goods". 

 

The first of these were built in 1867 and the design was successively developed by Stirling, Ivatt and Gresley; a total of 205 Stirling pattern (domeless boilers) had been built by 1896 whilst Ivatt added 133 more using a domed boiler. 

 

The later rebuilds became LNER classes J3 and J4 and some survived into BR days, though how I'm not sure how much Stirling content remained by then!

 

[jazzer]

On 31/03/2021 at 11:30, 30368 said:

Sir Henry Fowler had, I suspect, a difficult task. Convincing all those ex Midland types that dominated the LMS that perhaps double heading with lots of small loco's was not a good idea for the future. Oddly, the same thing seemed to happen when LMS men dominated British Railways somewhat limiting BR Standard designs.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

PS I rather like the original Patriots too.

Although the LMS designs bore a closer cosmetic similarity to the BR Standard designs than those of the other lines, it is a bit of an urban myth that this was due to dominance of ex-LMS men. In fact E.S. Cox in his book Standard Steam Locomotives is explains that great efforts were made to ensure this didn’t happen. 
The first problem was that the standards had to be “ go anywhere “ locos. This was not a problem with the generous clearances of most of the LNER and GWR but any designs from those lines would be precluded from much of the LMS and almost all of the Southern .  That left only the Southern and LMS as the starting point but as there was very little standardisation on the Southern but Stanier had pursued that end so in many ways the LMS designs were natural basic choices. Even then some, such as the Standard 4 tenders and tanks had to have narrower cylinders compensated by higher boiler pressure to compensate in order to achieve the universal route availability required.

The boilers themselves owed more to Swindon than the LMS. I can’t remember exactly but I think it was the Swindon No 3 boiler basically  put straight on the medium size standards.

Most importantly , and the time the standards were being designed Sam Ell was doing his work at Swindon that virtually revolutionised steam production.  Stanier and Collet had produced locos that were rarely short of steam but it was by trial on and error (hence Staniers ineffective class 3 tanks) . However Sam Ell was able to demonstrate the crucial importance of things like chimney choke diameter. Hence the Manors for example poor steamers as built , had there steaming capacity mor than doubled just by making the chimney about and inch and quarter narrower.  Thus , although the original standard designs called for double chimneys on class 5’s upwards, but Sam Ell was able to demonstrate more effective steaming in correctly proportioned single chimneys.  There were many similar deveopments.

So really , it’s probably fair to say that the standards, far from being LMS clones, they were probably pretty much state of the art , subject to the restrictions under which they were built.

This information comes fromStuart Cox’s book .

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, great northern said:

Sorry. Yes Hornby with replacement sides. Bedford, I believe, were used.

They're MJT sides.

[great northern]

31 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

They're MJT sides.

I don't think so Tony. I've checked on the Dart Castings website, and there isn't an end vestibule CK in the range. I'm as sure as I can be that I wanted something a bit different, and saw this on Bill's site. This was the first one we did, as I recall? I think we went to MJT after that, not having been over impressed with what we had seen.

[great northern]

Now we discover why the Scotch Goods has been relegated to the slow. The West Riding, and H A Ivatt, have caught up, and take precedence.

 

 

[manna]

G'day Folks

 

I'll go with the J3, J4, standard goods loco.

 

manna

[LNER4479]

Well, contrary to Clive's expectations, no-one has yet nominated Mr Stirling's most famous loco - until now.

 

My vote therefore goes to the 4-2-2 'Single', an absolute classic. 

[Market65]

I too will go with the Stirling ‘Single’ for this vote. 
 

Rob.

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, great northern said:

I don't think so Tony. I've checked on the Dart Castings website, and there isn't an end vestibule CK in the range. I'm as sure as I can be that I wanted something a bit different, and saw this on Bill's site. This was the first one we did, as I recall? I think we went to MJT after that, not having been over impressed with what we had seen.

I don't recall forming/making Bill Bedford's sides, Gilbert, but you must be right.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[thegreenhowards]

7 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Well, contrary to Clive's expectations, no-one has yet nominated Mr Stirling's most famous loco - until now.

 

My vote therefore goes to the 4-2-2 'Single', an absolute classic. 

I agree. Not so much for its own contribution but for showing the way for a succession of ECML super power.

Edited April 3, 2021 by thegreenhowards

[David Bell]

Another vote for the single

[drmditch]

Despite hankering after a J14/J54 saddletank, I would have to agree with the above and vote for the 4-2-2.
Only,however, with a driver familiar with the techniques of driving one.
Have just read in HAV Bulleid's 'Master Builders of Steam' that the TE of the first Ivatt Atlantic was the same as the Single, but of course with much more adhesion.
I must check this, because Mr Bulleid (jnr), appears to lack accuracy elsewhere.

[jollysmart]

My vote today is also for the single, despite other alternatives.

[DaveF]

Stirling single 4-2-2- here too.

 

David

[great northern]

While things have been happening on the Down, Claud 62529 has reversed into the carriage siding, with the stock for the 5.13 to March. We get an elevated view, probably from the Spital Bridge cenotaph.

 

 

[great northern]

I were getting worried, I were. When I closed down last night there had only been three votes cast. For a famous GNR man! You must all have been very busy yesterday, as quite a few more came in overnight and this morning.

 

In the end, 7 votes for the Single, a very comfortable winner. Some of these polls are bound to be more predictable than others, where there has been a really standout design, and I reckon this was always going to be one of them.

 

Today, George Hughes of the L&Y, and briefly of the LMS.

[Sandhole]

Heart says Baltic tanks.
Head says Crab 2-6-0s. Basic, hard working and certainly on the L&Y lines round Manchester, a true mixed traffic engine. 
I was hauled by a Crab as a boy on the Calder Valley line.

[2750Papyrus]

Has to be the Crab.

[LNER4479]

I have a soft spot for the 4-cyl 4-6-0s ... but difficult to put hand on heart and say 'successful'?

 

I'm going to go for the 0-8-0 heavy hauler freight loco. A 'plodder' but well-suited to the job it was required to do in the northern coalfields. Some survived into BR days. The Fowler LMS version of the type was not an outstanding success by comparison. Picture shows my Hughes 0-8-0 in the company of the Fowler type.

 

(I initially mis-read the question and thought we were only considering L&Y types. Ah well, I'll stick with it - it'll make a change from all the Crab votes!)

 

[Market65]

I’m going with the Crab, with it’s most unique appearance with those large inclined cylinders, etc.,  I have two of the lovely Bachmann models of them, which I enjoy running on the layout.

 

 Rob.

[Clive Mortimore]

Baltic tank.

 

Just over a week ago one was being auctioned on Vectis Auctions and I missed having a bid, mind you it went for far more than I could afford. It looked lovely in full Midland Crimson livery but with an LMS badge.

[Metropolitan H]

As the Baltic tank was only limited to 20 locos and all scrapped by end 1942, it will have to be the "Crab" 2-6-0 which with 245 built just got on with their hard work for a good long life - with few problems.

 

Regards

Chris H