Peterborough North

[Metropolitan H]

Not a line I know as well as to the east of salisbury. However, that doesn't stop me voting for the stretch west from Tisbury, through Semley to Gillingham - and beyond.

 

Regards

Chris H

[Clive Mortimore]

I only remember this part of the Lost Some Where Railway line after it had been singled and class 33 were pulling battered old Mk1s. I cannot think of a location which stands out better than any others so I will say the whole line.

 

I was with 17 Port and Maritime Workshops REME and we were playing soldiers on Bodmin Moor when I became ill and was sent back to our camp at Marchwood. The train journey from Plymouth to Southampton involved the bit between Exeter and Salisbury. I was joined in my compartment by a young lady, we chatted and music came into the conversion. She was very enthusiastic about the Sex Pistols. At the time I was still trying to like the rock bands my mates liked. I had started to like the Ramones, the Jam and Elvis Costello. Her sheer excitement about the Pistols made me want to have a listen to them. I am still grateful to her. I often wonder how her life went, I bet she has been divorced twice, and has 10 grandchildren. Or she became a very successful person in her chosen career. What ever happened I do hope she still enjoys punk music. 

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Choices, choices...

 

Crossing the S&DJR at Templecombe?

Crossing the GWR at Yeovil Junction?

Rushing through the middle roads at Seaton Junction?

Looking for cops at Exmouth Junction?

 

None of the above.

 

For me, the slow, curving descent from Central and coming to a stop at St David's.

Yo Sainty, what naughty thing were you doing at Exmouth Junction that you need to keep an eye out for the Police?

[St Enodoc]

2 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I only remember this part of the Lost Some Where Railway line after it had been singled and class 33 were pulling battered old Mk1s. I cannot think of a location which stands out better than any others so I will say the whole line.

 

I was with 17 Port and Maritime Workshops REME and we were playing soldiers on Bodmin Moor when I became ill and was sent back to our camp at Marchwood. The train journey from Plymouth to Southampton involved the bit between Exeter and Salisbury. I was joined in my compartment by a young lady, we chatted and music came into the conversion. She was very enthusiastic about the Sex Pistols. At the time I was still trying to like the rock bands my mates liked. I had started to like the Ramones, the Jam and Elvis Costello. Her sheer excitement about the Pistols made me want to have a listen to them. I am still grateful to her. I often wonder how her life went, I bet she has been divorced twice, and has 10 grandchildren. Or she became a very successful person in her chosen career. What ever happened I do hope she still enjoys punk music. 

Was that the Wren officer you mentioned before or was this a different close/brief encounter?

[30368]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

Ahem. Boast time. Tisbury Loop.

Know it well Ian. Lived in Fovant for 12 years so Tisbury my local station. The loop is very useful, well done. The whole area is really quite beautiful. If only the route was still doubled to Exeter! WR vandalism.

My current bit of railway, from Buxton to Manchester is also very beautiful in places...

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

[St Enodoc]

1 minute ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Yo Sainty, what naughty thing were you doing at Exmouth Junction that you need to keep an eye out for the Police?

Trying to emulate The Everlasting Percy by E V Knox (still in copyright I fear...).

[Clive Mortimore]

54 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Was that the Wren officer you mentioned before or was this a different close/brief encounter?

No that was on the way to play soldiers.

[jazzer]

49 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I only remember this part of the Lost Some Where Railway line after it had been singled and class 33 were pulling battered old Mk1s. I cannot think of a location which stands out better than any others so I will say the whole line.

 

I was with 17 Port and Maritime Workshops REME and we were playing soldiers on Bodmin Moor when I became ill and was sent back to our camp at Marchwood. The train journey from Plymouth to Southampton involved the bit between Exeter and Salisbury. I was joined in my compartment by a young lady, we chatted and music came into the conversion. She was very enthusiastic about the Sex Pistols. At the time I was still trying to like the rock bands my mates liked. I had started to like the Ramones, the Jam and Elvis Costello. Her sheer excitement about the Pistols made me want to have a listen to them. I am still grateful to her. I often wonder how her life went, I bet she has been divorced twice, and has 10 grandchildren. Or she became a very successful person in her chosen career. What ever happened I do hope she still enjoys punk music. 

 I bet she’s thinking “ I wonder what happened to that slim, fit looking soldier I met on the train. I bet he went on to become a   senior officer and married some debutant, then went on to have a success full career in the City as a stockbroker or something. Probably retired by now to a big posh house in Surrey and I bet he has some interesting hobbies, like ancient history and archaeology.”

[jazzer]

The Down end of Platform 4 of Salisbury station on a week day just after 12.20 on a weekday as the ACE rolls in, behind a Rebuilt Merchant Navy bathed in oily perspiration as it has just covered the last 33 miles from Worting at an average of 68 mph with 440 tons behind the tender. Within four minutes all four platforms will be occupied. As the MN stops a shed cleaner jumps up to start shovelling coal forward, and fireman swings up on the tender to grab the pipe of the Water column as the relief driver from Exmouth Junction who worked up earlier turns the water on, then has a word with the Salisbury driver who brought the train from Waterloo before climbing up to the cab. While all this going on the station pilot, an M7 , removes the last carriage which will be attached to 12.36 all stations to Exeter. The tender has been filling with water at the rate of almost 1000 gallons a minute. The Salisbury driver turns the Water off and his days work is done . The wheel tapper  who has been between the trains finishes his checks and the train is ready to go. Everything is done professionally in a matter of minutes as smooth as clockwork. The safety valves start to lift and the train is ready for the 87 mile non stop run to   Exeter.
That was the drama and romance of steam that can never be matched by the soul-less electrics.

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, jazzer said:

 I bet she’s thinking “ I wonder what happened to that slim, fit looking soldier I met on the train. I bet he went on to become a   senior officer and married some debutant, then went on to have a success full career in the City as a stockbroker or something. Probably retired by now to a big posh house in Surrey and I bet he has some interesting hobbies, like ancient history and archaeology.”

That must have been another journey she took. I was skinny, never fit, always been ugly and never destined to be a success. I do however live in a reasonably large bungalow in 3 acres of land. One of my hobbies is modern social history which railways are a major factor.

[Mallard60022]

So many choices west of Salisbury. Even today there are some pretty Stations and lovely views.

However, the thing for me is green all the way through Axminster, whistle howling again, doing 90 and starting the gradual Climb towards Seaton Junction and, with a clear line as the Bobby at the Junction is top notch, passing through the reverse curves there at 85 ish and the driver and fireman laying it on up the long climb to Honiton Tunnel where speed dropped off to about 50 towards the summit, with twelve on and a good engine. The Pacific's 'chat' climbing to that Tunnel is unforgettable.

So my choice is the head out the window climb of  the Incline going west, behind a Packet and preferably, number 3 knowing that Exmouth Junction is only about 35 minutes away on this express.

I can play that game already, except the head out the window bit is very difficult in my loft.

[jazzer]

2 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

That must have been another journey she took. I was skinny, never fit, always been ugly and never destined to be a success. I do however live in a reasonably large bungalow in 3 acres of land. One of my hobbies is modern social history which railways are a major factor.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ! 

 

Actually, my oldest hobby , apart from railways , has been modern-ish  social and industrial history from Trafalgar to about the end of the sixties, of which the railways are, as you say , very much an integral part. 

[2750Papyrus]

Now there's a possible poll topic - oldest hobby apart from railways.  Girls?

[great northern]

Let's have a more flattering view of the K2.

 

 

Becoming one of my favourite places for photography this, possibly because there aren't too many difficult bits to photoshop. Lovely engines, K2s, wouldn't mind another, but there won't be too many volunteers to try to put that kit together.

[great northern]

Sunshine at last! Still cold, but sunshine somehow puts an entirely different compexion on the day.

 

At PN, the sun must be getting very near the horizon, as the 8.52 to Grimsby is getting under way. More coal going south.

 

 

[BMacdermott]

00 Rolling Stock Poll No.2: Gresley Steel Panel 5-sets plus Gresley & Thompson Catering

 

Hello everyone

 

Welcome to the second of our series of seven 00 Rolling Stock Mini-Polls.

 

This Mini-Poll concerns the Gresley Steel Panel 5-sets which were inadvertently omitted from Mini-Poll No:1 together with catering stock that has at least some connection with Peterborough North. You can submit your wishes here, on the thread, as usual, or PM me direct if you prefer the ‘secret ballot’ method.

 

If you vote on the thread, please feel free to explain why you have chosen your selection – hopefully, that will promote some interesting debates – but please do not take it as an excuse to start up the old chestnut of ‘kits vs RTR’!

 

Here’s what to do…

 

1. You may choose the Gresley Steel Panel 5-sets, then a maximum of three Gresley catering items and two Thompson catering.

2. You cannot ‘transfer votes’ to have five Gresley and no Thompson etc. although you can vote for just the Steel Panel 5-sets, just Gresley catering or just Thompson catering.

3. They must be items you would realistically wish to buy if made RTR.

4. Submit your entries on this thread simply as (for example): 1, 2, 4, 7, 9 – with comments and explanations following. If you vote by PM, please only list your selection of numbers without explanations.

 

1. Gresley Steel Panel 5-sets GN & GC (1935 & 1939-1942)

 

2. Gresley Buffet Car (Diag.167, as rebuilt 1958/9)

3. Gresley Cafeteria Car (RCAF, rebuilt from Diag.95 Third Sleeper 1954)

4. Gresley Restaurant Pantry Third (eg Diags.15, 112, 151 & 321 of 1925-1943)

5. Gresley Restaurant First & Open Third (eg Diag.10C RF & Diag.27A, 27C TO, 1928/9)

6. Gresley Triplet Articulated Restaurant Set (eg Diags.12, 13, 14, 1924)

 

7. Thompson FO/Kitchen Car/TO (eg Diags.351, 353, 350, 1947 & 1948)

8. Thompson Restaurant First & Open Third (eg Diag.354 & Diag. 350, 1949 & 1947)

9. Thompson Pressure Ventilated Stock Buffet Lounge Car (1947)

 

Get your thinking caps on and get voting! I will give you a ‘Thx tick’ to acknowledge receipt of your vote.

 

You have until 17.00 on Thursday 27 May. However, I will stop earlier and advise if votes reach 50. I will present the results during the day on Friday 28 May.

 

I look forward to your selections and comments!

 

Brian

(Note: These are ‘informal Polls for fun’ on Gilbert’s thread only and neither The 00 Wishlist Poll Team nor RMweb are specifically involved, apart from me in my ‘personal capacity’.)

Edited May 24, 2021 by BMacdermott
List of item now in bold in context with Poll No.1

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

Here are my choices…1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8.

 

The Gresley Steel Panel 5-sets GN & GC are a vital component of the rolling stock we are discussing. It is interesting to note that – if the GE Section Stock noted in Mini-Poll No.1 was ever made - the CK in the first sets for the GN were 52ft 6in also. In BR days, they were replaced by Thompson or BR Mk1s and, as time went on, the sets tended to be split up.

 

A lone Twin of Diags.194/195 was noted on the S&D in Maroon in 1958. Lone Twins of Diag.304 in Crimson & Cream were noted on that line in 1955 and 1958. A Crimson & Cream BTK+TK Twin was even photographed on the Southern Region’s North Cornwall line and Twin Diag.304 BSK+SK Nos.E16841/2E were photographed at Bournemouth Central c.1960 in a Poole-Bradford train.

 

Although Hornby makes a Gresley Diag.167 Buffet Car in ‘as built’ condition, many were modernised in 1958/59 drastically changing the external appearance on the kitchen side.

 

Going by the GN Carriage Working Book for 1958, the Gresley Restaurant First & Open Third would be useful for the 1.20pm and 6.26pm from King’s Cross (although I stand to be corrected as they could be Thompson types, I suppose! Can anyone say?).

 

Although the Gresley Triplet Articulated Restaurant Sets only just lasted into the 1960s, they are ‘distinctive’ and offer plenty of liveries from 1924.

 

The Thompson RF & TO ran in ersatz Teak, Red & Cream and Maroon liveries. Although classified as ‘Restaurant First’, they were later downgraded to ‘Restaurant Unclassed’, and one was used in the formation of The Fair Maid. They lasted until the mid-1960s.

 

The Thompson FO/Kitchen Car/TO are highly distinctive vehicles, the Kitchen Car being readily identified by the fact that all but one of the windows and droplights are white opaque. They lasted until the mid-1960s.

 

Brian

[31A]

I would definitely vote for 1.  A train of this stock would be very suitable for my layout.  I did build one pair from Southern Pride and Comet parts, but can't really see myself building the other three coaches so for now they run with Mark 1s.

 

 

Apart from that, I would vote for 2 and 9.  As well as being suitable for use on my layout, I remember seeing these coaches in "Cambridge Buffet Express" sets in the late 60s / early 70s, and think the Thompson PV Buffet Cars are very handsome vehicles.

 

I wouldn't vote for any of the restaurant car vehicles, elegant though they be but my layout isn't big enough to run long enough trains to justify them, so I'd be unlikely to buy any.

 

 

[LNER4479]

5

 

Pure and simple (pleased you've grouped them together)

 

In my humble opinion, this is the one massive blind spot that seems to blight the RTR manufacturers in their development of their ranges. If you think about the inter-war period when such (Gresley) stock was being developed, almost all principal expresses had a restaurant car service. And the RF+TO combination was the 'classic', providing a proportion of dining car seating either side of the kitchen area that reflected the proportion of first/third accommodation on the train. I sure that 6 (Triplet) would sell well but, in truth, has a very limited application in terms of prototype usage (be great for present day preserved line dining car trains!)

 

The catering provision is often referred to as the 'core' of the train, with the other coach types added either side to complete the rake. So why do RTR manufacturers consistently ignore proper provision for it?! And, on the LNER, with their shorter (GCR) or portioned (ECML) services, the basic rake is not overly long. Something like BTK-TO-RF-CK-BTK or BTK-TO-RF-FK-TK-BTK would be entirely typical and well manageable for even a relatively modest-sized layout. Instead, they go for the popularist choice, the buffet car! Partly, one suspects, because they survived in quantity into preservation (although three Gresley RFs do actually survive as well).

 

Now, 'tis true that post war there was a gradual shift away from seated, table service full restaurant dining to the more casual tea and sandwich buffet car arrangement, reflecting changing tastes / habits but there was still enough principal expresses which employed the RF-TO combo. And in my 1950s era world, I could certainly justify at least one such pairing so it is a genuine 'I would buy' vote.

 

(I could equally rant on in a similar vein re LMS/LMR catering vehicle types ... but I respect that this is an LNER/ER vote!)

[BMacdermott]

24 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

In my humble opinion, this is the one massive blind spot that seems to blight the RTR manufacturers in their development of their ranges.

 

(I could equally rant on in a similar vein re LMS/LMR catering vehicle types ... but I respect that this is an LNER/ER vote!)

 

Hello LNER4479

 

Fully agree with you there!

 

Bachmann produced the Mk1 RFO in 2001 but hasn't 'followed through' with the RSO and RK.

 

Hornby has the GWR Collett Restaurant Car dating from 1978 and the LMS 12-wheel Car emanating from Dapol in 1985. 

 

On the plus side, Hornby has produced the Maunsell RF - with some other catering stock in the pipeline - and the LMS Coronation Scot trains have the Full Monty...so, perhaps there is hope for the LNER/ER yet!

 

Brian

 

 

[Oldddudders]

My casual observation on catering vehicles is that most people simply don't have a layout large enough for trains with a realistic formation to include one. Six coaches including buffet is a minimum - unless it's a Southern EMU, of course. Even Steve (31A) admits to such a disadvantage. Manufacturers are wise to this these days, rather more so than in the balance of FO/FK against TO/TK, perhaps, where equal numbers sometimes seem to be produced.

[BMacdermott]

Hello Ian

 

When I ran a 'Train Length Survey' on the old MREmag back in 2014, I had 119 respondents in 00.

 

Of those, 21 could run 6-coach max trains; 19 could run 8-coach; 15 could run 10-coach; and 8 could run 12 or more.

 

Brian

 

 

[Oldddudders]

2 minutes ago, BMacdermott said:

Hello Ian

 

When I ran a 'Train Length Survey' on the old MREmag back in 2014, I had 119 respondents in 00.

 

Of those, 21 could run 6-coach max trains; 19 could run 8-coach; 15 could run 10-coach; and 8 could run 12 or more.

 

Brian

 

 

Motivational distortion, to some extent. Rather like surveys about bedroom activities, those with something to brag about will do so. Those who cannot run more than 4 cars may be less willing to contribute, perhaps. But that is a lot of very large layouts. Surprising. 

[BMacdermott]

Hello Ian

 

You are making an assumption there...

 

The respondents came to me directly via email and most were known to me personally having been on MREmag for years.

 

Six is probably a fair median, though.

 

Brian

[LNER4479]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

My casual observation on catering vehicles is that most people simply don't have a layout large enough for trains with a realistic formation to include one.

BUT, where the LNER is concerned, 5 or 6 coach express formations, including catering provision, were typical. So that particular cri de couer does not hold water.

 

So far as the ECML is concerned, yes, it may appear that all trains leaving King's Cross were 14-15 vehicle formations (and more) but - certainly pre-war - this was because they were combined formations, with through coaches and portions for different destinations, in gloriously infinite combinations. But at its heart, the main train (containing the catering provision) was typically only 5 or 6 vehicles in length. An extreme example (if you like) was the unique Leeds Quintuplet dining car set. A five vehicle, articulated complete train with full catering. But either side of it were portions to Bradford, Harrogate and Hull. In total there were 9 brake vehicles of some description or other in the formation! OK - fair enough - and before you say it - that particular 5 vehicle set would never be seen en route anywhere just on its own, as it would be left at the buffer stops in Leeds Central as its final Harrogate portion went on its merry way. But, as a general rule, the big formations got smaller north of Doncaster.

 

On the GCR it's even easier as they generally ran as 5 or 6 coach trains (pre-war) and that was that.

 

Can't comment post-war as all my research has been focussed on 1930s for the Grantham project. I suspect that core formations did get longer ...

 

(On the LMS, core formation were generally longer anyway. But we are just focussing on LNER/ER here)

Edited May 24, 2021 by LNER4479